Sniper Pistols

[Voxcaster]

I'm probably going to get thermodynamic/Scatterplot's new carbon fiber suppressors. IIRC they're pretty light. I'm not 100% sold on getting the extended inner barrel, though, because that would mean I'd always have to use it with a suppressor. How much of a range and fps decrease do you think that would put me at?

[Dagonet]

waves at the new nutters in here

 

Safety bits been done,  chances are  if you have found your way here you know what your getting into,  kinda handy being tucked away from the more traffic handguns only subforum.

A read through the thread will be handy for you,  lots of random tips and info scattered throughout it.

 

For the record,  i am capped at 350fps as to play under Sniper power and rules i need a real world in use/service sniper pistol,  which dosen't happen.... so 350 max for me (sites requirements)  others in the UK can and have played VSR'ed TM Mk23s at Sniper power levels,  so it's a mixed bag over here.

 

Bucko,  knock up a home made holster and try it out as a Primary,  won't be in the holster too much then anyway.  Liking the 2 uppers so you can switch out,  nice set up.

 

Voxcaster,  quite sure we have a VSR'ed TM Hi-cappa several pages back,  seen a few elsewhere running g-spec barrels and silencers pushing up to 500fps,  don't think a 1911 has been done yet.

 

Common upgrade is a VSR G-spec barrel 303mm length,  PDI in 6.01 or Nineball/Prommy in 6.03 or try a Nineball 7" 6.03 that should just drop fit in the unit,  the VSR barrels need new locating slots cut/filed/dremeled.

Silencers and  slide cycle issues seem to have been touched on by Bucko,  smaller and lighter is better.

 

Hi-flow output valves,  maybe hold off on them (unless you get them cheap)  stock TM valves can be reworked.  Hi-flows will increase gas useage (much debate over wether worth it or not, do you really gain) when it gets cooler,  more gas flow will increase cool down and you might have issues.

Start with a barrel and hop rubber.  A new piston head will help as well,  several out there to pick from, while that might not give you a massive boost in FPS it will improve gas useage and consistancy,  biggest FPS boost will be from the barrel.  These changes should see a gain in gas use,  but not affect the overall operation of the pistol.

Running stiffer recoil springs and hammer springs requires more gas energy to move them,  as you know 1911 mags are really thin and don't hold a massive amount of gas,  unlike the Hi-cappa/2011's.

 

I changed my stock TM MK23 132.5mm length 6.08 barrel, on that day green gas .20 320fps,  put in a JG G-spec 303mm length (bore unknown could be 6.04 most likely 6.08) .20 429fps,  thats just a barrel swap, stock hop rubber.

 

I use a TM G17,  not the largest magazines,  but Glocks are simple inside and easy to work on and not too chunky to hold.

I went with maximise output on as many stock parts as possible.  Runs a Nineball purple hop rubber,(stock barrel 97mm 6.08)  112.5mm length 6.03 Nineball 5.1 barrel and an action alloy 1911 piston head (real tight fit not intended for G17) on green gas temp dependant can be 320-350 in summer and 270-300 in winter.

To maximise gas more,  i have polished the stock recoil guide rod,  less friction/drag less energy needed to cycle.

I did a swiss cheese job on the heavy stock BBU got from around 52grams to 36grams,  lighter aftermarket BBUs are out there,  again less weight means less energy to cycle, less gas used,  faster cycle time.

Magazines are stock TM,  no mods,  nineball routers are available now.

When the stock slide gave up,  been fixed twice, decided to run green gas in 28oc temps,  was too much and cracked slide,  also had some lite striking as gas pressure was higher than hammer spring could counter.  Freakin awesome performance though.

New alloy slide from Guarder,  had to mill some weight out (could loose more) now running about 18grams over the stock TM plastic slide set up,  so with a metal slide not to far off stock TM performance.

Stock outer barrel,  but i bored mine out and sleeved and extended it to take a longer inner barrel.  The inner barrel is shimmed to fit without any slop or play within the outer barrel,  this will tighten grouping up at longer ranges.

 

Run mine on .30 BB's,  shoots flat to 40m,  50m fairly easy to do,  on really nice days with some skill and luck and lots of holdover i can hit to 60m,  whats that roughly range wise,  150-185feet.

Oh and i scoped mine up, easier to use a red dot at 50m than fixed iron combat sights.

Had to make a custom holster from an ammo pouch to carry it.

 

As a very rough guide,  and from what i have taken from the various arguments/debates on here and other places.

6.01 barrel, big FPS boost, excellent shorter range (IPSC) performance.

6.03 barrel, not as much FPS boost,  but excells (slightly) at longer range performance.

 

Feed both with quality BB's and clean them lots.  I went 6.03,  choice is down to the user.

 

[Bobby Lemain]

Been a while since I updated but I shall leave you with this picture and the fact that I accidentally had Josiah Hull (of Arnie's!) make the ID 9 instead of 8mm on the threaded adaptor so I'll need to get another made:



 

[renegadecow]

Does that fit on a thread or held in by grub screw? If the latter you could shim it with a sheet of aluminum from a soda can or something.

[Bareknuckle]

I'm probably going to get thermodynamic/Scatterplot's new carbon fiber suppressors. IIRC they're pretty light. I'm not 100% sold on getting the extended inner barrel, though, because that would mean I'd always have to use it with a suppressor. How much of a range and fps decrease do you think that would put me at?

 

Nice to see someone else doing long-ranged pistol build based on a 1911! The MEU is probably one of my favorite 1911 variants.

 

The biggest problem with not going for a long barrel (which is the easiest way to gain FPS on these. A 235mm barrel like the one that comes with the Madbull Assassin's kit bumps you up to 400 FPS easy, and like was said above, the 300mm G-SPEC barrel takes to around 500 FPS right there. Also, it doesn't really cause any additional internal wear except for anything that a suppressor hanging from the barrel will cause) is that the only way to really do so is (I think) with high flow valves, which might problematically increase your gas consumption. Since you're running a 1911, your gas capacity is the weak point with those single-stack mags. This would be easier on a hi-capa, but let's be real, this is airsoft and it's not about what's easy or best, it's all about getting the gun you want. If you went for high-flow valves, you should probably also upgrade the piston head and maybe try out those new Shooter's Design purple magazine gaskets. Those two efficiency upgrades also bump up your FPS a little bit, and it sounds like you could use whatever you can get on that open field you play on.

[Voxcaster]

Yep, already running the Dyna piston head. I'm thinking about getting two inner barrels, one for when I want the suppressor and one for when I don't. A pain in the *albatross* to switch out every time, but better than restricting myself to one style of play with such an expensive gun.

 

Might skip on the high flow valves, but I'm definitely going for the Firefly rocket valve. Heard it boosts fps quite a bit.

[Bareknuckle]

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure that the Firefly rocket valve is the same thing as a high-flow valve. The blurb for it on Redwolf Airsoft says "The rocket valve installs into a gas blowback pistol and will manifest greater gas flow per shot then a stock rocket valve. Increased flow can result in greater power and consistency in shooting at the cost of using up your gas quicker." That sounds like what a high-flow valve does to me. Somebody more knowledgeable about GBB tuning will have to confirm that.

 

I wonder how the dyna head will play with the high flow valves. I've heard the seal is so good that it tends to blow out when people try higher pressure gases like red gas. Does increased green gas flow approximate the effect of red gas, or did I fail high school physics (I can neither confirm nor deny that >:3)?

[Voxcaster]

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe a rocket valve goes into your pistol and a high flow valve goes into your magazine. I don't usually do high-power mods on my pistols so I wouldn't know.

 

I figure with good fitment and some teflon tape it should get the job done. Only going to be using HFC134A / maybe some propane, though, so it shouldn't be an issue for me.

[Bareknuckle]

You'll probably have to go propane, I dunno if you can get the power numbers you want off of HFC134A, though the use of it with a rocket valve in is intriguing. I also like your dual barrel idea. Thankfully, airsoft 1911s can be stripped to the barrel pretty quickly and easily, in my opinion. 

 

We should compare project results when we're both finished. I think we're among the only ones currently building single-stacked sniper pistols in this thread!

[Voxcaster]

Yeah, it isn't too bad. I'd probably do the finagling at my work table, though, because I'd hate to drop screws or hopup bits in the staging area at a field.

 

The upgrades on my MEU are coming second to the externals, I'm afraid to say. They perform well enough stock that I'm not too worried about getting up to 450fps soon.

 

I'll definitely get a post in here, though. Hoping for over 200 feet of effective range.

[mimesis]

Rocket valve goes inside the loading nozzle.  Best to have a really tiny high-quality phillips screwdriver to undo the screw that holds the valve blocker in place.  The spring that you use in conjunction with the valve itself is crucial.  I've always found the SD ones too strong, and hence they screw up cycling.

 

High-flows are the outlet valves in the magazine.  There has been much discussion of these on Arnies.  I am not alone in thinking that they do very little to nothing.

[Dagonet]

Liking the the 2 takes on a 1911 platform.

 

If you don't fancy a silencer there are some compensator kits out there that could be modded to hide a longer barrel.

 

On the tuning up,  mag out put valves control output when knocked by hammer,  thats all they effect.  The Rocket valve (as per Mimesis) controls the flow of gas to the barrel, and lives inside the loading nozzle, as the BB exits the barrel the pressure drops, the rocket valve moves and directs gas flow to the BBU,  so by changing the profile of the Rocket valve or the spring tension you can alter the amount of flow.      (happy to be corrected if i am wrong there)

 

However,  you have a TM MEU,  TM have gone to great lengths to get the most from there products under strict laws of Japan.  So the more stock parts you change about,  the higher chance of problems.

 

As has already been pointed out,  a barrel swap will not effect the overall operation of the pistol,  a heavy silencer may cause drag between the slide and outer barrel and cause cycle problems (Glocks can be prone to this,  being a tilting barrel,  Hi-cappas can be fitted with fixed barrels to get round this)

Depends on if you want balls out power,  or more power but still a reliable pistol.

Also worth only doing one mod at a time, get that working and if you want/need more do the next upgrade.  Expect fitment issues when mixing in other brand parts,  it might not happen,  but don't be surprised if it does.

 

I went with reliable and reworked some internal stock parts, with some non moving upgrades, another barrel swap will boost my Glock up to 400 but i can't play that,  but it would still be a reliable TM pistol,  as it's still mostly TM parts.

Even a TM will benefit from a strip down,  some moulding/casting marks on the guide rod,  polish off,  some casting marks on the hop unit,  filed off, faces honed for a tighter fit,  shim the barrel etc etc,  pursuit of minimal gains,  bit like the VSR chaps attention to little things can bring gains in accuracy and performance.

 

looking forward to the 1911's progress,  been too quiet in here for a while,  then BAM goes nuts

[Voxcaster]

Yeah, that's what I figured regarding the rocket valve.

 

I'm feeling like you're probably right about not switching around too much, but companies like Nineball, Firefly, and PDI have gone to great lengths to make sure their parts are compatible as well.

 

Does anyone have experience with the G-hop?

[mimesis]

BTW, the rocket valve is sometimes known as the floating valve.  Just to make things easier to understand.  (Just like some HK sites call the loading nozzle the loading muzzle (!!), and even very occasionally the cylinder [which it is, of course].)

 

Firefly makes nice stuff.  Back when I didn't know any better, I bought a FF hi-flo valve (for a hi-capa).  Interestingly, it came in parts--about three metal parts and the four tiny O-rings.  I installed it and didn't really notice any change.

 

Take care, too, with PDI's winter piston heads.  I had one that refused to work in any nozzle I tried on it.  It must be designed for 30 below.

 

Besides the purple Nine Ball and the W-Hold, the other bucking to try is the Modify (beige colored).  Very nice.

[Voxcaster]

Thanks mimesis, that's the impression I was under.

 

Did you buy a Firefly high flow valve, or a Firefly rocket valve? I'd be interested to know which is more effective. Maybe they have to be tuned to let different amounts of gas through?

 

I live in Hawaii so I don't believe there's much of a chance that I'll need a winter piston head, haha. Thanks for the info, though.

[Bobby Lemain]

Does that fit on a thread or held in by grub screw? If the latter you could shim it with a sheet of aluminum from a soda can or something.

 

The threaded end allows for a suppressor on the Custom Straight to cover the extended inner barrel. The smooth end will get lightly reamed into the outer barrel (since the fit is almost perfect). If the adaptor ends up being a little loose inside the outer barrel I'll get it in there with some epoxy.

 

I thought about shimming the barrel itself and making some sort of barrel spacer the length of the adaptor but I couldn't see that with a positive outcome since the alignment of the barrel will depend on how well I make the shim

[mimesis]

The Rocket valve (as per Mimesis) controls the flow of gas to the barrel, and lives inside the loading nozzle, as the BB exits the barrel the pressure drops, the rocket valve moves and directs gas flow to the BBU,  so by changing the profile of the Rocket valve or the spring tension you can alter the amount of flow.      (happy to be corrected if i am wrong there)

 

Did you buy a Firefly high flow valve, or a Firefly rocket valve? I'd be interested to know which is more effective. Maybe they have to be tuned to let different amounts of gas through?

 

Unfortunately, it was the high-flow.  Well made, though.  As Dagonet says, the rocket valve, depending on its design, may let a bit more gas go forward before it shuts down and directs the rest of the gas backward.  Likewise, as per Dagonet, the strength/weakness of the spring in there with the valve is going to have a significant effect too.

 

When I was building a Prog4 based hi-capa, I originally put a Shooters Design spring in the Airsoft Surgeon nozzle.  The pistol would not cycle.  I swapped in a MAG spring (from the spring kit) and it cycled perfectly.  Of course, this would need to be tuned with the specific kind of gas that you're using.

[renegadecow]

Thought I'd dabble with an A+ hop rubber only a lot of stores are out of the TM GBB spec ones. There are however plenty of TM VSR and WE open bolt rifles left, but aren't they the exact same thing? I remember trying to fit my BAR-10 hop and barrel on my 1911 once before and they were identical as I recall, or did A+ do something different?

[Bareknuckle]

Thought I'd dabble with an A+ hop rubber only a lot of stores are out of the TM GBB spec ones. There are however plenty of TM VSR and WE open bolt rifles left, but aren't they the exact same thing? I remember trying to fit my BAR-10 hop and barrel on my 1911 once before and they were identical as I recall, or did A+ do something different?

 

I thought so too when I was ordering mine! I asked in the news thread for that product when it was new, and some people told me to get the one that is advertised for pistols, but I don't remember their line of reasoning. The thread should still be there if you want to search for it. I think it may have had something to do with the length of bucking, but I'm not even close to sure. You would think it would work though. I chose a 1911 base largely because it has the legendary VSR hop-up. Anyways, good to see someone else experimenting with an unorthodox bucking choice. I would give you a solid review of it right now, but I was only able to fire off a few shots inside my apartment before I ran out of gas. Need to get a refill. It seemed to improve accuracy at <50 feet, but this thread is all about range. I'll tell you if I can get out to a field soon with a fresh propane canister.

 

Dunno if you like to use ebaybanned, but they seem to have it in stock right now. Their customers' reviews on the product are pretty favorable overall, for what it's worth.

 

http://www.ebairsoft.com/plus-studio-devil-rubber-tokyo-marui-p-5642.html

 

Speaking of unorthodox buckings, have you seen those new "maple leaf monster" GBB buckings? I am thinking about trying one of those and comparing them.

[renegadecow]

Thanks for the heads up and will be anxious for your review. Can't say I've heard of that maple leaf bucking.

[Bucko]

Thought I'd dabble with an A+ hop rubber only a lot of stores are out of the TM GBB spec ones. There are however plenty of TM VSR and WE open bolt rifles left, but aren't they the exact same thing? I remember trying to fit my BAR-10 hop and barrel on my 1911 once before and they were identical as I recall, or did A+ do something different?

 

From what I've heard, the difference between the GBB and the VSR/ WE rifle version is the hardness for higher FPS and the rubber's resistance to the cooling effects of the increased gas flow in the GBBR.  Or so I hear...

 

I just installed an A+ in my WE GBBR DMR upper, so I'll get back to you with results in a different thread later.  I also have the TM GBB pistol bucking in my long-barrel KJW Sig P226 (seen on previous page) after my Firefly wore out.  I'll report those too.

[renegadecow]

Dangit I done busted up my scoped 1911. Dust cover had a crack all along its length and when I was checking how deep it went the entire left half came clean off. Good thing I noticed it to or it would have come off in the field together with my scope. The 1911 itself I'll probably build back into a regular A1, but as for my fancy scope maybe build myself a Remington XP-100? I've had a JG BAR -10 lying around for the longest time which I was supposed to turn into an SMLE. Or maybe a "nevuh bin dun befo"  SMLE pistol since I have No. 1 Mk III parts anyway? 

[renegadecow]

And work on the XP-100 begins:

Just gotta decide on a feeding mechanism on whether or not it will be holding 1 or 20 rounds before I put this in the projects section.

[vorpalbunnie]

Do one round so you look cool.

 

Or even better....have the option for both. Have it use a 20 round magazine of sorts but make it possible to manually put a BB inside the chamber from the outside.

[Dagonet]

Not sure how you would go about doing a mag for that.

 

Chopped down stock one,  chopped about shotgun shell ?  even a small cap say 5 or 10 bbs would be handy.

 

Anyway,  as usual loving it so far,  glad you decided not to do a SMLE pistol,  that would be wrong    unless you have seen a real version....