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scar527

Sniper Pistols

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Thanks Phantom, detailed knowledge as always.

I have a PX4, not a mk23, so what I'm trying to work out is if there's a way to quieten the action on GBB pistols? I had a quick look into what I could find on the PX4 internals (although I don't know how representative of GBB's in general this is, due to the rotating outer barrel), and I don't think it works the same as the GBB rifle Gisburn20 has described. There may still be a way to reduce recoil impact and hence reduce stress on the frame and the noise created shot to shot? On the rifle, the buffer tube is perpendicular to the bolt action and this is where the contact occurs, but in the PX4 I can't see what it is that will be struck by the slide when it reaches the end of backwards travel. If I can identify where the contact occurs in a GBB pistol, there may be a solution - sorbothane on one of the contact faces perhaps?

Hunting will resume in a couple of weeks ;)

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The solution could be very simple indeed.

 

Ok PX4's are still pretty new. I haven't seen one yet let alone seen the insides. I dont know how different the internals are to other GBB and i don't know how the rotary barrel/breach ? function.

I may well go a hunting some reviews online.

 

Again still working away for a few more weeks so can't lay my hands on anything.

 

Staying with the theme of quieten down a GBB. Theres not a lot you can do that won't impede the function of the pistol. Airsoft GBB pistols are easy to upset, partly why i started off with a MK23, simple reliable, but a bit boring.

 

After trying some GBB i got the TM G17, then went mad tuning it up. I wanted to make the most of gas in the mag. Power FPS wasn't my goal this turns out to be a side effect of reducing recoil (read through the link for race gun tuning i posted earlier).

 

Short stroking a GBB has a few effects.

1) by making the slide travel less distance it takes less time to return to battery, or it cycles a bit faster.

 

2) i reduced the weight of the Blow-back-unit BBU, this action makes the slide cycle faster, as it's lighter, and use less gas to get the slide moving, more efficient use of gas in the mag which will help in the winter.

 

3) a lighter slide that travels less distance will have less felt recoil. I wanted to reduce the recoil for offhand lefthand shooting. TM pistols are weighted to give more felt recoil. Full metal pistols already have the weight of the metal slide so have a lot of recoil, the downside of metal slides is gas use goes up due to the extra mass, and in the winter metal retains the cold and makes "cool down" worse (gas drops in pressure as the temp drops, and goes up in pressure as it gets warm) plastic pistols suffer less from the cold than metal pistols.

 

The bulk of noise on a GBB is the slide as it's blows back, resets the hammer, then slams forward to complete the firing cycle. You may be able to quieten down things a bit, but not by much. Taping or padding the slide will add weight, that will slow the cycle rate down.

 

There are short stroke kits for hi-cappas. They just limit the travel of the slide.

The ghetto fix.

I tried different sizes of hose pipe, length and diameter. 15-20mm length of rubber garden hose pipe slipped over the recoil spring and guide rod does the job. It can put pressure against the outer barrel. Due to a new piston head, i had some issues and had to reduce the size of my bit of hose, as the piston beds in things are not so tight and i can try other sizes again.

 

Now the offshoot of short stroking is a rubber buffer quietens down the recoil stoke (no metal on metal contact), but you still get some noise as the slide returns to battery (completes it cycle).

 

Bit of hose pipe for the win :D you could glue a sorbo pad to the front inner face of slide, i tried this with a thick tap washer cut to fit first, but then short stroked anyway.

 

Downside of short stroking (yes there is one biggy) you will have to count your shots as your slide will no longer travel far enough for the last shot slide open lock. You will keep firing until the mag runs out of gas (firing blanks if you like)

 

Now a warning. Playing around with the insides can end badly ££££ play the pistol stock internals, let it bed in, get used to it's action, how it shoots. TMs are great out of the box and most are happy to drop in a new tighter barrel and nine ball hop rubber, this alone gives a small boost to performance but will not affect the other actions of the pistols. It takes a while for aftermarket parts to filter through as well, so bodging something up now could see an aftermarket part/kit pop up a month later.

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TMs are great out of the box and most are happy to drop in a new tighter barrel and nine ball hop rubber, this alone gives a small boost to performance but will not affect the other actions of the pistols. It takes a while for aftermarket parts to filter through as well, so bodging something up now could see an aftermarket part/kit pop up a month later.

 

That's exactly what I've ordered, 6.01, a nineball and mag shims so in theory that should equal plenty of power, and you've confirmed exactly what I read in a few threads on slide changes and recoil/hammer spring changes - anything that affects stroke is a no no. Will have a play when I get home and see if I can identify the faces that are striking each other - just hoping I can dampen that 'clack clack' noise I hear from other people's GBB's! Will post results in a few weeks

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Adding some more information. A few years back i stumbled on this article written by a chap named Battle Priest.

 

Aimed more at dual wielding pistols. But elements will be of use if you intend to go pistol primary. This alone has a few sub divisions of Dual wielding to slient sniping to a single pistol but tricked up and scoped.

 

Dual is fun, loud and can intimidate the living poo out of other players in tight urban CQB game areas. Takes a lot of practice to shoot well.

 

Slient Sniping. The world of NBB the only truly silent option. Travel light, pick your targets stealth and silence are your friend.

 

Single GBB tricked up. Or for a lot of people a single GBB because there AEG has just died or failed the chrono test, so go pistol.....or go home.

 

The "Pistol Only Revolution" "POR" also a dead thread on ASF, this was started in 2006, it's a good read (for people stuck on oil-rigs :) )

Get a cup of tea and some biccys and read on.

 

http://airsoft.caelyntek.com/articles/POR/PORmain.htm#genpistoltech (there are highlighted links within the article )

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The problem in our game is that the modern gas pistol, is so practical, we have had to seriously handicap them. So they are limited to one magazine per pistol. If you only carry one gun (of any type) you get an extra magazine.

 

So, some just go MK23 with 2 mags. This is option most used by players with injuries, in denser seasons.

 

I use 2 pistols with 1 mag in each. I carry a silenced TM MK23 in my hands (on a lanyard sling), with my TM G17 in a fobus on my belt.That way I can do the silent sniping, or dual wield (only ever used as anti ambush at point blank.) or just assault with the single GBB and MK23 tucked in my belt.

 

Pistols are so practical, you can easily take on AEG's, as lomg as you outhink people, rather than just trying to outshoot them. To take on AEG's in a skirmish, you need a few mags and that will make the loadout abit heavier, it's more the costs that would be a problem, plus slow reloads compared to AEG's with high caps.

 

I think you just have to play the stealth game and then make the few rounds available really count. This can include sudden attacks that take people by suprise. Therefore, using pistols well, is more of the mindset of the "Airsoft Sniper".... stealth, accuracy and flanking.

 

My only piece of advise is to go with TM pistols and use 0.30g. Keep them clean.

 

Good Hunting ;)

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Would a buffalo stance work?

 

Unfortunately I'm unfamiliar with that one. Google points to some 80's song. :unsure:

 

But if it involves locking the neck then I guess it will work. The big problem about handgun scopes is there's little room for play to find the reticle. Even on low magnification ones, the point of focus is literally just the size of the eye so shifting your head away from it makes you see nothing unlike on a rds where you have a fairly large amounf of movement where the dot follows your head movement if it has parallax correction.

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Well I went to the game on Sunday with just my Bar 10 and my PX4! Unfortunately the scope mount broke off the Bar 10 in the first half an hour - pistol only day!!! Didn't take the silencer or scope cause I had only intended to use it as a backup, but working to the idea that mobility and good positional play were the key, I had a fantastic day and scored as well, if not better than a usual day running my AEG. It was incredibly wet and with a lot of the games being played in the quarry it was very physically demanding (I actually injured myself pushing too hard), plus my gear was completely caked in mud and clay - just hope I haven't blocked the washing machine...

Stripped, cleaned and rebuilt the pistol yesterday and swapped the outer barrel for a threaded one, so I now have silencer capability and a 2x mag red dot which works really well - hoping to get some target practice in over the next couple of days in readiness for another game Sunday. Not sure if attaching a pic will work

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Nice Job. Shows that using good play, will often get the result, without the need for firepower.

 

Shame about the scope rail. but it is the only weak point I have seen on BAR10's.

 

Good Hunting ;)

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Shame i couldnt get to kirton1, from the vids and photos i have seen it looks like a varied game site.

 

Read the other players feedback on the LAC forum and it's known for being hard and getting stuck in mud.....my turn will come.

 

Maybe hook up at a future game Mudpuppy !

 

Give the red dot a go.....you may find your a bit slower to aim to start with, bit of plinking should sort that.

At longer range though a single precise red dot placed on target should be a big bonus. If i have a standing target then open sights are fine, i like the little dot for precise picking out of body bits sticking out from trees etc etc :)

 

The site across the road is K2 and that is more open space and longer range shots than K1. I can play ok on K2 and be active, if more than 2 with AEGs run away... 1 or 2 then fair game for me. As bushman stated, good play, think first don't outnumber yourself and a well sorted pistol can hold it's own. Just adapt to what you have.

 

I have noticed that if you pop out from cover with only a pistol on show then most players don't see you as a threat, and ignore you... i wave at them with there AEGs as they walk toward me, i keep the pistol lowered, non threating posture... then at 30meters.... let rip and leg it to cover :)

Bagged a few with that tactic.

 

If we ever get to the same game day i would be more than happy to team up.

 

My next job when i get home (working away) is to make some camo for the MK23 as it's big and black and the big silencer....well it does stand out.

 

Have fun next weekend.

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A tale of action and the "sniper shrug"

 

On sunday i went to www.lincolnshireairsoftclub.co.uk game at the Kirton 2 site. This is a large site with small pockets of dense woodland, 2 wooded ridgelines, a big flat desert like quarry bowl with a small scub island on it, a large field area and more open spaces with dune like features.

 

It is not an ideal pistol venue. Mudpuppy got to play across the road in Kirton 1 a few weeks back, which is an active off road centre, semi active quarry and knee deep somme like mud in places, it also is not an ideal pistol venue.

 

The more range you have the better your chances, with some firefights being a case of a 200m open space, the wind in your favour can win the fight.

 

So in the afternoon i went light, stocked up the MK23 with a G17 as back up. I made about a 1m square camo net for head and shoulders, this in turn did not play well with the T-bar stock which kept getting caught up, a rethink needed there, and a hunting i went.

 

Abbey ultra gas and .28 bbs. First job was to get in play some distance from the car park, this was also alongside the walk in from the other teams respawn point.

I got close to the action, my team are holed up in the dune like part of the site stopping reds getting a missle to a flag point. I am behind the reds, and behind me is an erattic stream of reds coming back into play from the respawn near the car park (maybe half a mile away, it's a big site)

 

First player i get within 20 feet, and he is sat there with his back to me, reds pass through this bottle neck, if i cap him now any others will know i am here. I skirt round now to his left within 10 feet, i was going to bang kill but see his dead flag on his knee. I now have to break cover to move further, 3 reds come my way, another is further out, they see me and i open up, then they hold up there flags already dead, but not making the fact clear by having rifles in a ready position and flags scrunched up in there hands. They also didn't expect to bump into any yellow team players. So far could have killed a couple of reds who turn out to be dead anyway.

The other red is unaware of me and i move up behind him and take him out with 3 rapid shots about 25m away. i try to rejoin yellow team, despite waving my pistol in the air and showing my armband the muppets team kill me......but quickly medic me back in. (mental note, when being sneaky anything hostile must be shot first whatever side it's on, i can always medic them back in on my team )

 

I rejoin yellow and hide on the extreme flank hoping to catch sneaky reds. I only have to wait about 10mins. I see movement, no shot for me so fall back, the movement/contact is unknown team and may have seen me.... 2 mins later he walks right past me, at about 5m i shoot him in the bum, he didn't like that :) i slink off and hide again.

About 60m in front of me i see a cluster of 3 reds in a dip in the ground, 2 have face masks. I watch. I get bored and decide to attack, i can go behind them but risk being spotted by other reds and taken out at long range. They are firing on the yellows holding the flag, theres a small shrub about 30m away, stay low get the line right and i can't see them so they can't see me, almost make the shrub and i see another red lying on his back with glasses on (face masked players dont see everything to there sides so are easy prey) he see's and makes the others aware.... i am now shooting at 30+m and bag him quick, i get the 2 face masks as well.....then the whole area is swarming with reds and i have no where to go, it's hard to outrun 3 or 4 aegs at full rip in your direction. They get me.

 

The damage is done and reds are a bit freaked at being taken out at range by pistols, i have a big stupid grin, and twirl the G17 like i am John wayne, i bleed out and wander through yellow lines to find our quite close re-gen.

 

Rather than wade back into the fire fight in the open where i have no chance i watch and see the state of play.

I flank round to the end of the ridgeline and staybelow the skyline in the woods and walk across the battlefield. I see my team about 150m away in play, and i see reds moving around. I am about 30m above the main battle field. i find a straggler, standing in the bracken, also watching the state of play. I have elevation on him, a clear shot around 30-35m away. Aim dead centre of his back....fire 1, miss wind drift as it left the tree line, curls off drops short. fire 2, aimed about a foot out of his right shoulder, curls past his head, he is aware of the shot but no idea where it came from, he ducks down, then slowly stands, i adjust aim fire 3, dead centre back hit.... i see it strike... i hear it impact with a thwack, the red looks about and shrugs ? a double tap to the back and he looks round to see me then puts his hand up !

 

I walk along the ridge, only a few minutes left of play, i drop down and attempt to bag another red, in the closing seconds of the game i rush reds but get team killed again.

 

The stock i made up is playable, rapid fire is quite accurate and enough to take small groups with aegs, be sneaky, get behind them, players with facemasks and mesh goggles arent fully aware of whats going on around them, take out the players with glasses/goggles on first as they see and hear more and will pick up on you faster.

Not ideal pistol play and i just got stuck in to it, did quite well and freaked out some of the other players. A few more tweaks here and there and things should improve a bit.

 

The "sniper shrug" player was a newbie rental, strangely this topic came up at lunchtime when one of the admins was talking through the whole, "you see it hit, you see them look around, then they carry on playing until you hit them again types"

I will add that the level of play is high at LAC games and the marshalls are active and if informed of issues deal with them.

 

i also scored a s/h army G17 mag and a Madbull Chrono to play with. So some chrono testing of the MK23 to come later. There next game if i can make it is at a paintball site called Ground Zero near Lincoln, this is smaller with lots of cover and dense undergrowth to hide away in, it is more suited to pistol play as ranges are shorter, just adapt tactics and go hunting small groups of stragglers or come behind the other team and pick them off. I am making some changes and hoping to make that game site for some more primary pistol action.

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Good after action report there. My club played an away day at Kirton 2 a few weeks back and had nothing but good things to say about it. Brave choice taking a pistol out, i'm glad it panned out for you.

Am working on plans to jest some aluminium onto a lathe in the next few weeks see if i cant make me a supportive outer barrel for my ruger that actively holds the inner barrel and hop inline to give some extra consistency.

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Thanks chaps.

 

I as yet haven't tried a boltie, i have an urge to try it, but i lack the home range to dial in a long range rifle. After faffing about with 2 AEGs and never having the game time to warrant 2 the beefy M14 is getting ditched, my little SMG can reach beyond 45m and i like to run light so mostly only have 1 hicap and a bag of BBs when i play that.

 

The effect of active pistol play is amusing, the other team aren't sure whats going on as you have to get really close to do any damage to them, some of the time they mistook me for there team as i was within there held area. Expect to be nailed a lot, but the look on there faces when they walk up to see what you shot them with is priceless... even more so when you walk out to play with pistols tucked away under your jacket so you appear unarmed.

 

Stalking and picking off stragglers is the best way to stay out of re-gen, hide within the area the other think they control, then just go nuts and charge them down when your walk to re-gen is not to far away, or a shorter walk than the other team :)

 

Farrasdevil, i am not a LAC club member (yet) but they do marshall for a clean days play and keep a close eye on things. The Kirton sites are wide open spaces and really suffer from wind drift and can become who has the biggest mag and best hop set up wins. There is scope to run amok with a pistol. One of the players has a fetish for sawn down shotguns and likes to use that against box magged high ROF M4s :) Please post here how your Ruger project pans out, sounds interesting.

 

I will take another piccy later, the MK23 was roughly camoed up, i could adapt to play without the stock. A red dot sight is a bonus over the open sights as it's a more precise aiming point, however with the stock i could operate the MK23 single handed with better accuracy than freehand, tie that in with a tricked up G17 GBB for some noise and the other team aren't 100% sure if there are two of you.

 

The origins of this thread was about playing with pistol as a primary, i see a cross over point as most of you proper bolt action types carry a pistol as back up. I understand MED vary from site to site (LAC is 35m MED when you go over 350fps, up to 400 for DMR AEG and 500 for bolties, auto is up to 350 and no MED )

So the concept of a pistol than can reach beyond your MED with a degree of accuracy, i assume thats of interest to other Sniper players.

 

Trying to play dual pistol is hard work....fun but hard. I went with 2 then 3 mags for the MK23, and 2 with the G17, the theory being if you get rumbled the G17 makes a lot of noise and let loose a mag while you break for cover, then reload, the weapons allways have a loaded mag, allways good in case someone stumbles on you during reload.

 

Will do some Chrono testing later as well, show .20/.25/.28 FPS for the MK23, some real world UK data and not the hot country g-spec hi-flowed claims of 500 for a MK23. Don't doubt that, it's of little use to me as i can't play a pistol at that power level where i am, and it's mostly cold and damp here in the UK anyway.

 

The G17 i use is a TM with 1911 6.03 inner barrel, lightend BBU, short stroked slide and trigger, nineball rubber and alloy piston head. Reshimmed the inner barrel today so should see an improvement beyond 25m with it now. The MK23 is stock apart from a nineball rubber, no one seems to carry drop in tight bores anymore, so may look into dremel working a 6" (132mm) barrel to fit the hop unit at a later date.

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I use a stock TM MK23 and stock TM G17 and really don't feel the need to "upgrade" anything. They are accurate guns out of the box imo and I rarely fail to hit what I am shooting at. The secret is using 0.30g pellets.

 

Much of pistol shooting is instinct and experience. Holding fire till you feel you can make your few pellets count. I use the MK23 as a primary only. While the G17 is backup for either MK23 or a rifle. I agree, use the GBB as a noisey distraction to keep heads down; while the MK23 is basicly a great silenced gun for making accurate single shots that go undetected much of the time.

 

Good hunting ;)

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Well, gaming tomorrow so a bit more pistol action to come. Tweeked a few things.

 

Had a play with a chrono. bit of a learning curve as Madbull V1s are a touch quirky.

 

During the day i left everything in the house to warm up and got a string of 318 -322 fps over 8 shots, about 18o and Abbey ultra.

Had another play today, everything has been left in the garage so much cooler, but running 280 -290 fps again on .20

 

Changing some things around so will take a piccy of that.

 

Also it would appear there is going to be a hot desert eagle there. No real information other than it chronoed at 470 ? and wasn't played before. No one seems sure about anything reguarding it. Hints it is a TM, but unknown whats been done to it, so i will be watching with interest when that comes out for testing as the chap wants to try different gases in it. I assume it's been bought via mail order and the owner dosent now if anything has been done to it.

 

Could be a wind up or a spike in chrono testing, but i havent heard of Eagles running that high before.

Should be an interesting day out tomorrow :) and must take the LAM as it gets dark early now,

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Well that was a day out.

Got down to LACs day at Ground Zero near Lincoln, this is a well used paintball site with lots of features and quite a large playing area, some plywood buildings and towers, slit trenchs, some very dense shrubbery and brambles. It's also flat and well sheltered so unlike LACs Kirton sites GZ dosen't suffer from wind drift, this fact alone was an eye opener for me and several others :)

 

I like to start with an AEG then go light after lunch, my new AEG hop rubber was fine at home in the garage, chrono test and range test at the site showed .20s at 330fps great for 15m then vertical and thats with the hop fully off, so another nub to try to fix that. My M14 was on test with a buyer so it was bail out of the first game and gas up the pistols for the whole day.

 

I warmed up doing a bit of backline medic duty as the warm up games are fast action and the dreaded P90boxmaghighROF brigade where out on the other team. So mostly watched play unfold, study the other team for when we moved about the site.

Again most people just see a pistol and think easy target. Both MK23 and G17 where running Abbey ultra and Devil .28s, i used the quiet moments between early games to dial in the hops....both are good to 40m against a standing full body target, takes about 3 shots to confirm it. With out a tape measure i can lob shots to 50+ but no accuracy.

 

A problem of other players i am noting is maybe not so much cheating as such, but a single shot hit, they hear and see nothing, assume its a random flyer and play on, until 2 more come there way, or you break cover and wave at them, some do look about first to see if any one is there (yes they are hiding :) ) overall i had a few needed a nudge but then i had some excellent hits at 40m ranges with some excellent hit taking in play. I guess you rifle chaps get this as well, you pick off a lone target at like 60m, see him look about dive for cover then run off as there is no-one in sight so they can't have been hit on purpose (hit is a hit )

 

The TM G17 was running around 240-260 on.20s it's a bit cooler now, i have shimmed the inner barrel/outer barrel, double taps seem fine, getting heavy handed see's flyers as mag gas pressure drops. By lunch time the slide was sticking and needed a quick strip down and respray with lube, it had been rolling about in the dirt and seen a fair bit of action. Next time i will take a small spray can of lube out with me, range was most impressive, i was used to getting 25m-30 tops before. Having no access to a range outside games makes dialling in a slow process for me, but 30-40m targets no problem. Due to the fast fire nature of the site i removed the slide short stroke spacer to re-enable the slide lock when mags are empty. This was easier than dropping the mag to check, as i mostly ran dual all day, this helped with reload and not shooting blanks.

 

The TM MK23, on .20s 280-300fps as no blowback faultless performance all day with no issues to report. I started with the red dot and stock in place, which is fun, but cant get the sight dialled in (it is battered and i have a new one to try).

"Less is More" now i have tried it....and got it dialled in, it's faster without the red dot sight, my camo cover on the silencer does obstruct the sight line more (thats to be changed) but i was getting good hits more by instinctive shooting than sighting (some of you out there know this anyway, i am on a learning curve still )

Removing the silencer then. This makes a dramatic change in the sound signature of the pistol, and as other players "hear" the shot i see an increase in 1 shot hits (no issue with a GBB pistol).

 

Things to change. Camo on the silencer, this makes a difference as it's what pokes out from round a tree. Mag pouches, will have to get some proper pistol mag pouches. I have a Fobus quick draw for the G17, great for urban or competition, not so great in woodland, mags can get pulled out, and half the BB track is open to collect dirt and jam up the mag when you really don't want it to. I have a random selection of home made and make do, thats got to change.

Run as light as you can, it will benefit you.

Ammo, i now have 2 speed loaders, that and a bag of extra BBs in a pocket is fine. I made a gas can carrier so no issues there.

Quality BBs will make your day. You have less firepower make ever shot count, so don't skimp on cheapo BBs .28s are a vast improvement over .20/.25 i will be getting some .30 (although i do have a few thousand black .25 to play with as well) looking for some .28/.30 blacks as well, harder for me to spot the BB in flight to target, but harder for the other team to back track to what bush i am hiding under, although single white BBs do get through fine (not like a cluster of 12 heading your way, easy to spot ! )

Bushman keeps telling me to try .30 i am, if i can find some small packs then i may try some .36/.43 most likely to heavy and slow and a mortar like flight path, but if i can find some small size packs then worth playing with, i suspect .30 will be the sweet spot though.

 

Looking at my bottle of BBs, i think i used near on 1000 rounds(maybe more) in the day. Thats a lot for pistols, and i have 4 G17 mags and 3 MK23 mags. But quality counts. A 3000 rd bottle should last 3 games at that pace. I used a lot less at Kirton as the play was more spread out, less players more chance of stalking. In one of the GZ games me and another with an AEG holed up behind some oil drums, i would pop up let rip a few duck down, and medic in chap next to me,then repeat, we did that for 20mins, i bagged some silly long shots, and the bridge we where holding i could see tops of heads so bagged them a few times, i ran out, 7mags, as i reloaded the other team broke clear of the bridge and where all around me, chap next to me is dead... i bagged 4 reds in the bum ,one kicked off i was dead, i wasn't the distraction was enough for a very very sporting Red team player to bang kill me ( i would have nailed him too otherwise, then run out of ammo)

 

Did get to do some stalking, picked off odd players, the reds held a tower and could lay down lots of fire on anything within 60m, they could see over the bushes. I could lob shots and hit the tower, but in no way effective.

In the last game we started with the tower, while having a look around the game started, players hid, i shouted i was off to get killed first, ran off, almost ran into 3 AEGs, ducked back, prone, silencer off make some noise, 20m nailed 3 AEGs, they weren't even sure what happened, i got a bit excited, ran back pointed out where the reds where, then went hunting, i skirted round where i bagged the first 3, and follow the Red team, 3 reds appear on my left so i shoot them, turned out this was the first 3 on Bleed out "BUT" they where not holding up in the air Yellow flags so i shot them up again....the Red rear guard (boxmagROFedP90s) now know i am here, i let rip a few and leg it, but cant outrun several ROFed AEGs on full chat. They are spooked at how close i came to getting them at that distance (mine zipped past them no hits) i let the red rear guard have a play with my pistols, yeah really spooked now ! i bleed out, regen and go a hunting again, where i defend a corner of the woods, i am outside a building but can cover 2 windows at once, bag me a few more before being outgunned by 2 cowards hiding in a bush with AEGs :)

 

Knackered from all the running about. Surprised at just how many BBs i got through. It's not always like that, i think i prefer the quieter days although this was fun.

 

Get to know your pistol. I have had mine for over a year, reading through articles on arnies and other places, just getting to play them, it's open a few eyes at LAC games not to underestimate a pistol player, you can get stuck in or go stalking.

 

TM MK23s then. They really are that good, when i wear out this one i will be buying another one, simple reliable accurate silent in stock form !

 

It looks like i have sold my M14, so i can change some things around and kit up properly for the pistols. Hopefully at some point i will bump into Mudpuppy at a LAC game and i think we might have to go a hunting AEGs.

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Well i am unable to get into More reply options, so can't load attachments/pics.

 

I picked up an old been lying in the ground for some time butt piece, that might be from a paintball gun or an MP5.

 

I have reworked the stock, the T-bar has gone, the MP5 butt is in place, some general smoothing out of things and a different grip strap, the grip well has had some thin foam added for a better fit too. Need to find some paint next, but MK3 stock is looking much better and not so like half a telly bracket (as someone called it, whom was later shot in the kneecap during play )

 

More from boredom, i amused myself by recutting an AEG barrel to fit the Glock hop unit, with more practice this can be done fairly easy with brass barrels, i did make a hash of it and put a hole through the barrel with the locating slots. With the hole in place the 8" 6.08 clocked in the 260-270fps .20, not much more than my 112.5mm/5.1 6.03 nineball barrel. After taping up the barrel and hopunit it spiked at 329 then settled around 300-305fps and it's about 10o in the garage, maybe cooler.

The MK23 was hitting 285-295 on the same Abby ultra and .20

 

I will assume if i was to place identical barrels in both pistols then the MK23 would still outperform the Glock due to no blowback.

Just playing around with things really. I think the MK23 will remain stock as it's so simple and reliable, and aftermarket parts don't seem to be available in the UK, a nice steel barrel over the alloy one would be good, but chopping an AEG to fit is doable.

 

I may look into a 6" nineball general pistol barrel 6.03, as i could recut slots on that to fit both hop units, i think this will be pushing my 350fps limit for a hot UK day in the MK23 but should be ok in the G17. All of the race guns i looked at, at ESC claim 320 on green with extended tightbores, but i have seen claims of 400 for MK23 with custom cut standard length 6.01 barrel in hotter countries.

 

I am not on a misson to create a super gun, but like the BAR 10s i am looking to squeeze perfomance out of what i have, FPS is not the primary goal as i want to play the pistol, range and accuracy. Although a pistol that scares the other team just on looks dosen't hurt :)

 

So anyone got experience with pistols and barrel length and bore and fps they wish to share ?

 

The MK23 is staying stock so it's always playable. The Glock may get some attention and extras. Off to do some research before any shopping, although BBs are on the list, and somewhat scarce in the UK when you go to .28 .30+ i was hoping to pick up some small packs to try out but most things are out of stock or silly pricing (SGMs whoaaa) at the moment looking like a 4000rd sack of .30 & .28 madbulls, might just stay with .28 for now, see if i can find a 1000rd ish bag of .30s to try.

 

Any favorite pistol brands out there ? did have a look at the BB thread, but thats kinda 50/50 on madbull bbs.

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I have been using Guarder 0.28's (HPM - High Precision Made) in all my pistols for the last few years, good quality and affordable at £10 for 3500 from Firesupport.

 

Run them in almost all my AEG's too now,

 

I also have a small amount of teflon coated Straight 0.36's and Madbull 0.4's knocking about ,PM me your address if you want a few of each weight to test.

 

 

My MK23 sniper (gspec barrel ) has taken a back seat to my KJW 10/22 for a while, but may come out for a run at the December charity game if it snows again.

 

It's the only pistol worth carrying in the snow!

 

Jim

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Yes MK23s are good in the snow :)

 

I did look at the Guarders and will be getting some pouches and bits from fire support. Havent noticed any chatter about them so was unsure. been on Devil .28s and really good (out of stock most places) worked well in my 310fps .20 M14 as well, that extra punch through grass and low leaves is handy.

 

Normal UK thing that no one stockist has everything in stock that i am after, when i bought my MK23 from zero one they had no mags, only one other place had spare mags in the UK on the shelf, with postage they came to £32 each and that was like 2 years ago.

 

Thanks for the offer on bbs i will bear that in mind, the bulk of my testing is only at 5-10m, i tend to slope off on game days to try things out or dial in hops. I don't have access to a longer home range, which is mostly what has stopped me going for a vsr.

Hoping LAC will get some more heavyweight bbs in as they also did small packs and no postage as a game day pick up.

 

Thanks Gisburn20

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Nick at Firesupport is the one who recomended Guarder 0.28's to me, they usually have plenty in,

 

Frank (Firesupport owner?) referred to them as "cop killers" , they have some extra punch over 0.2's through bushes and against wind deflection.

 

I'm tempted to try the clone MK23 mags as my TM mags leak and need resealing if left too long in storage.( I think there is a clone mk23 for sale on here cheap as well)

 

My TM Glock 17 is currently "resting" and my AA MEU is doing stirling service as a sidearm, after a few tweaks it's more accurate than the TM G17...

 

good mods I found on the - G17 a very simple buffer , just a slice of soft rubber hose about 4mm long, maybe 10mm ID and 12mm OD

 

slipped over the return spring and rod takes the strain of the constant propane use, takes up the overtravel of the slide (cut and test - repeat until slide lock just about engages)

 

very thin o rings on the inner barrel work as shims to stop it wobbling inside the stock outer, PTFE tape works too.

 

Jim

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I'm finding the reverse to be true with regard to the mags. The clone mag leaks (over the course of half a day or so) and the TM mag is fine. Additionally it was not possible to load the clone mag from the bottom until I filed away some of the central slot - it was less than 6mm. Running .25 in mine for simplicity (same in the AEG) and was making 50m hits this weekend gone on standard length 6.01 barrel. Very nice flat trajectory on about 2/3 hop.

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My TM mags have problems with propane, most of them have been modded to remove the blow out valve and re sealed with rtv silicone,

 

but are about 5 years old and had a rough old life, agree about the loading from the bottom being easier too,

 

MK23 not seeing much use these days so the 3 remaining mags that seal will do me til I can get round to sort the rest.

 

Jim

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The Mag issue seems very hit and miss.

 

I have 6 TM mags all use green or Abby ultra and never had any problems. They leaked the first few times i used them, a service squirt of silicone cured that, i put it down to being new and dry seals. Been fine ever since.

I tend to use what gas i can pick up at game days, but try to use ultra when it's hot and green when it's cooler.

 

There is another MK23 at the LAC games, he has had to mod a blow off valve already, then went and snapped feed lips off 2 of them. If anyone knows where to find TM MK23 mag feed lips post a link, they seem to be like rocking horse poo to find.

 

I have got an Army G17 mag second hand. It fits and works but is different, overall size is very slightly off, the gas router is different and sits higher than TM, a better seal maybe, also more drag on the BBU. It works but you notice the difference. I would want to see and try clone mags first before buying them over paying a few quid more for TMs.... then again due to events in Japan some TM stock is very hard to find at the moment.

 

Also a bottom loader as well, the Army G17 mag has the widened loading slot, and is also easy to top load through the feed lips.

Did try top loading my TM mags but the feed lips are tighter and i was cracking BBs so gave up on that.

 

Had another look at fire-support....only 300+ bags of Guarder .28s in stock :) so will be getting some in to play with after payday.

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My TM MK23 mag leaked when left without gas, in storage. Tanaka m700 mags are the same. You need to leave gas in the mags, when storing.

 

My MK23 mag did start to leak internaly at one stage. I had to drill out the security pin and open it.

 

I presumed it was fabled outlet valve, that TM put in there to stop you using higher powered gases. So I removed it, got the hole for it tapped and sealed with a bolt that is flush. However, the mag still leaked.

 

After more examination I found, the main seal (between both halves of the mags) leaked but when I looked closer, the inner lip it sat on was damaged in one corner. wierd. So I used an age old fix.... araldited the 2 halves of the mag together and its super solid now. There is no leak and you could use high powered gases in this thing.

 

I feed the MK23 from the lower slot, with mag inverted. You can very good at holding it just right to double stack.

 

I use the top feed lips on my TM G17 and pull the spring feeder down manually, as I feed. That makes it far easier. I have had zero problems. Both these guns have had regular use for a few years now and are factory standard. They perform just like the day I got them.

 

I use green gas only.

 

Good Hunting ;)

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Was watching vavanns No.4 film and found this as well, a bit of MK23 action, although they do show up a lot in his other films :)

 

CQB Airsoft guncam MK23

by vavann56

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