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scar527

Sniper Pistols

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@Dragonet i saw the glock thread, thats what put ideas in my head :) just thought i'd throw it out there instead of clogging up the place with new threads. Can't find much about the usp's here, cheers i'll root tru some RS forums :)

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Can't think of any topics anywhere on USPs about what you want, and i haven't seen inside the frame of one to see the linkage set up.

 

Maybe going off topic again, it has been suggested before (for any pistol) to polish all contact surfaces, and pay some attention to the hammer sear, that can enhance trigger pull and smooth it out.

 

However you need to be happy to take apart the trigger/hammer mech, and again the unknown nature of metal used in airsoft will be against you.

 

A basic tune up for real ones is to polish it all up, and maybe tweek the profile of the sear engagements. Get something wrong or over do it and it's all new parts.

 

The TM MK23 is double action NBB, and a heavy pull because that cycles the loading nozzle. Rather than take the whole thing apart and do a polish job (no chance of getting spares if it goes wrong) i cleaned all the linkage points and bearing surfaces (left the hammer mech/sears alone) and regreased with Finish line Ceramic bearing grease, a high grade grease from the world of cycles.

 

The pull is still long as that cycles the nozzle/sets the hammer, the pull weight is the same as no springs have been changed. The trigger "feel" is much improved by less friction through the linkages. It feels lighter but is really just smoother.

I still snatch second shots high right though :) but i can pull through on double action and set the hammer.

 

Not really what you want, a good clean up should improve the feel of the trigger pull, but short stroking it may prove tricky.

I would guess you could pack out the trigger slightly to stop full return, but not by much as it will interfere with everything else and may interfere with safety engagement.

Some excellent pistol modders on here, if no one else comes up with ideas then i guess no one else has tried.....or just got single actions for crisper trigger response.

Happy tuning.

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@Dagonet Cool mate thanks for that, internals are usual cheapo 'metal'. I have an old tanaka P8 to have a practice run on so its all good, think i can see an area that can be packed out to remove some of the trigger slop.

Anyway i'll cease the off topic ramblings :) cheers for pointing me in a direction ;)

 

 

@faramon It would be rude not to, it must be so ;)

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A tale of daring do and pistol play.

 

Go get a cup of tea and some biscuits before starting this :)

 

My local club had a post xmas afternoon members only run about. The weather was nice, not too cold so i went dual pistol, i wanted to try out some other BBs at range which i can't do at home. Excell .25 and Guarder .28s.

 

Playing pistol only is part of this thread, there are several ways to go. Iron sights or scopes, red dots. Like sniping there are drawbacks in mags to hand, rate of fire etc etc. Against groups of AEGs it is hard work in woodland, better in urban/cqb sites.

 

LAC site 5 was used, a fairly flat wooded area with lots of low cover, the poachers on site who where cooking there pheasant had been warned about live shooting in progress and maybe good to go as the site warden was about as well.

So gassed up with AimTop green, 4 G17mags and 3 Mk23 mags, a speedloader and small bag of BBs and bottle of water and gas bottle carrier.

 

A members only event, and about 24 players. The first game is a roving hunt. We all have 5 tokens, on being killed you count to 60 then bleed out to the boundary line, then regen back in. In the 60 seconds one other player can take 1 token from you. Player with most tokens wins. No teams. A game made for treachery with much shooting in the back. Single players and small groups, all joining up to take on harder targets then trying to take each other out....for a few tokens more !

 

At game on i had to team up, i could have taken him on, but the chance of me outrunning a Rof'ed up boxmagged P90, well i could always shoot him in the back later. Quickly got into trouble, with a team of 3, they tagged P90, i was going to try and take some of them, but a another team of 2 moved in to steal the P90 token first. I am stuck between 2 teams with AEGs, i can see them moving about but can't shoot through the low cover. Run away. Go to ground watch with interest as they duke it out. Things go quite....another player has regen into the game and is walking right at me down the track. I am lying down, just off track. I roll over sit up and let rip both pistols and bag him (35m) i watch and wait, then get up and run to get a token, the 2 man team are trying to steal my token and i get the first shots off, they go to cover realise i have pistols then attack.... i am running and trip slip on logs, i go flying and manage to execute a barrel roll while firing before i hit the ground, very hollywood. I get hit mid flight, and get hurt, while i sort myself out (ankle) they point out my G17 is firing blanks, i might have got him mid barrel roll otherwise....damn-it.

 

Turns out the Guarder .28s are sticking in the mag. This happens with all 4 G17mags. I swap over to Excells next game.

I take some time out, regas reload, do my boot up tighter, and slip back into the game.

I see players moving about then vanish, gone to ground. I move up on them using trees as line-of-sight cover, i can't see them ergo they can't see me. About 30m i can see the black front end of a rifle sticking out from behind a big tree. There appears to be someone lying down behind this player in low cover. Again use the trees and move closer. I can't tell what way the second player is facing. I move closer again....this is getting silly... the black rifle is moving but can't engage me. Second player is moving about. Black rifle is prone and covering my direction, the tree he is against is the blind spot, he can't see me. Second player is covering the rear, he is semi sitting/lying on his back. I am less than 10m away, no more cover. I take aim, 2 shots take out the rear guard (back of the head he told me). Prone player has no idea where i am and still can't see me, i shoot at the rifle to force him back, he crouches behind the tree and his bum is now in sight..bingo 2 tokens thank you very much.

 

I slink off elsewhere. Go to ground and watch & wait for targets. A 3man team walk down the regen boundary to come back in at a quiet spot. They walk right past me and come in about 80m away. They have a slight elevation gain on me. 2 are standing and move about now within 60m. 1 is a clear shot but to far away (dead cert with a vsr) 1 is moving to my right again about 60m out but too much foilage for a clear shot.

I decided to have some fun. I can't win the game so fun.

3rd man has gone to ground, maybe 40m away. I can see a head/shoulder/black rifle.

To take a shot i have sit up and shoot through the dead foilage around my tree. My rear is wide open and an easy shot if anyone stumbles onto me.

Brace the MK23 against the tree, hammer back, line up, aim just above the head and hope the shot drops in.

Slowly squeeze the trigger....shot, can't track it and lose it. Miss.

 

The player looks my way, player 1 looks my way.

I am a tree. I do not move. I am looking right at his eyes. If i shoot again he will see my shot. I do not move, if i move they will see me.

Spooked, but they quickly settle down.

I try again. Must be closer as he swings the rifle round my way. I am a tree, i do not move, i watch and wait. The other 2 start moving.

Other players draw there attention. I want the shot, a tricky shot, a small target at 40m with MK23 fixed sights semi blocked by the silencer.

Triple tap, get the hit :) outstanding, Guarder .28 seem to like the MK23. Player 1 is hosing down the tree thats 3m in front of me, close but not close enough. Player 2 is coming round to flank me. I can see him but have no shot, he gets closer i break cover guns blazing and run like buggery zig-zagging through trees and escape.

 

I get a few tags but unable to claim the tokens, the G17 is next to useless with mag jams. This gets me killed a few times.

Game runs for over an hour then it's back to the cars.

I check the BB channels on the G17 mags, it's not as if i never clean them. I switch over to Excell .25s to see if that improves things. Handy hint, i am using the Magpul speed plates on 3 mags, they are rather good and do function well. The down side is regassing mags. They have a hole for the valve but you need an extended valve nozzle to really make it work. Or you can use the standard gas gan nozzle to unclip the base plate slide it down and then regas like that, takes a bit longer but you get a proper gas fill and don't burn your hand when you get the angle wrong through the speedplate.

 

Second game moved to another area of the site. No armbands, 3 teams, defend a structure with tokens in it, and go get tokens from the other 2 teams base bring back to yours. Fast fire game.

I try the G17 with the Army mag and not impressed.....got a TM just buy TM mags it's worth it. I may sand down the Army router so it dosen't jam the BBU.

Covering another player, i medic him back in and ditch the Army mag. Oh my...the G17 now works as it should and i attempt some silly long shots :) slide locks back, dump mag slap a fresh one in. Get some fast furious tags then retreat to reload. Come back in and get tagged. Regen, back to our shack, before going into play i have a slash and watch another player run to our shack, look for tokens (hidden) and run off. I can't shoot him because my hands are full...but he dosen't even see me !

I go to ground about 20m behind our shack/base only nearest cover/tree. I only wait a few minutes when maybe the same player runs in looks about for tokens and i shoot him in the back.

He is a touch vocal about getting hit and "where the **** did that come from" he dosen't see me, but i am hiding this time. My team come back enmasse to find a dead player there and guess it's me. Dead fella looks around and i wave at him.

The game pace picks up as 3 way teams get messy. We push through and ransack the nearest base to us (again), move and fire, and attack the the farthest away base. I go from attack to medic as i can jump around real fast without an AEG. This ends with us pushing all other players out of the woods into the open ground....however they are hosing there structure to stop us running in and grabbing tokens. I charge in get pushed back....go again grab a token, shoot it out and retreat, i back into a steel support and get tagged (and feel like i broke my elbow)

 

Getting to know the limits of your side arm is a good thing. You should be able to engage with ease at 30m with most pistols. 35-40m gets harder but doable. 40m+ can be done with work, but getting tags at those ranges gets harder.

The major problem with a MK23 is the sheer size of the silencer it blocks the sight picture. Not really a problem with full size standing targets, but a head and shoulder becomes harder. Red dots and scope time. The fixed stock iron sights vary in use from pistol to pistol, but most are intended for 25m.

 

Fun as it is, running duel pistol is harder, even more so with 2 types of pistol. It's much easier for you to have one very well set up pistol with some extra mags. Like the rifles, the more work you put into your pistol the more effective range you can squeeze from it's short barrel.

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Good tale Dagonet!

 

The only time I had jamming issues with Guarder 0.28's I was in a panic!, my fave ammo letting me down! ,

 

then I realised I had the bottom round stacked wrong ie. the not meshing into the slope of the mag follower.

 

This caused issues in all 5 of my TM G17 mags! taking a round from the top of the mag and feeding it in the bottom slot

 

above the follower to level it out cured all jamming issues.

 

This was in testing my G17 / Hera the night before a trip to The Mall, bit of a nasty moment.

 

Jim

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Yep get where your coming from Gisburn.

 

I also used (for the first time) a feed lip loading speed loader. It worked on the G17s but not on MK23 mags.

I will try the Guarders again but trickle them in through the lower feed slot, slower but maybe better.

 

Bought 2 bags of Guarders, see how they work in the AEGs.

 

The problem could have been 50/50, the BBs would hang up in the track and stay put when the follower was pulled back, some times the follower did appear skewed (wedged it's self).

 

It was ASG blasters not excells in .25 they fed with out issue, they may have a better final polish.

 

Firing blanks is no fun against 2 or 3 AEGs you tend to lose. :rvbteam:

 

Getting used to the quirky nature of BBs feeding in one thing fine but jam something else... the hunt is on for a nice allrounder.

 

(still to try .30s)

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Scope mounts.

 

Today a jiffy bag turned up from fire-support :) i have bought a "SHS pistol scope mount FN57 and Marui Warrior" they had 2 in and not listed in mounts but under brands "SHS" only £11 or £14.50 posted. I had found the same item under another name elsewhere for £10.30 but out of stock, you can also find the same item under other names elsewhere for £25 ! joys of airsoft.

 

After looking at the pictures of my choice for this type of mount i have taken a gamble, i want to see if it fits my MK23.

 

I belive there are steel versions intended for real firearms, if you stumble on them, buy that.

 

So it weighs 79grams, is made from monkey metal and i think a monkey drilled the clamp holes as they are not straight. It is a one piece casting with seperate right side clamp. Overall finish is rough, threads have swarf in them etc etc.

 

Also it would appear there was a mount recoil pin (to stop recoil creeping of the mount) this had been glued in. I have the remains of glue but no pin ? it would however have to be removed to fit the MK23 and Glock as it dosen't align with cut slot on a Glock lower frame mount. So no loss there really.

 

Glock fitment.

Yes it fits. You will need to shim with tape the front of the mount to bring the mount level. The Glock front frame rail is rounded and causes the mount to not sit square. The scope rail is in line with the open sights, when shimmed it sits quite nicely, and lines up nicely.

 

Mk23 fitment.

We all know scope mounts for these are no longer made for airsoft. You can get real ones and they appear to be not much dearer than the airsoft versions. Last time i looked it was around £65 for nineball, i can get top halfs, but the important base mount that fits the rails is unavailable and cost the same as the top mount. Strange you had to buy it in 2 parts, not a complete unit.

 

As this SHS mount is single sided i gambled that it might fit.

It does sort of. You will need longer bolts, it clamps up ok, but sits at an angle. With some mild heat (not glowing hot) and a vice it will need the side plate twisting inwards. This will bring the scope rail almost in-line with the sight-line. Sight adjustment range should cope with 1 or 2 mm offset rail. Some careful work (file/dremel) of the sideplate rail clamp would bring that down.

 

In short, for £14.50 and a few hours work it should work well on a MK23......bargin :)

 

 

After looking around at airsoft mounts, most appear to be very overpriced nasty items. I would want to see most of them first before laying out any cash, test fit if possible, fine if you live near a Airsoft shop.

 

This came up one page 5 by Mimesis, and www.usmcpro.com have got back in FAB defence USMP at £34.99 for 6061 machined alloy for real use, is a steal compared to most of the "airsoft" offerings. If i get a mount for the Glock (or anything else) in the future then FAB or Aimtec are top of the list.

 

Going to try it out on the Glock first, find some way of holstering it. Then it will move to the MK23, should help with those 40m+ shots :)

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After a play around, it sort of sits in a Viper Molle holster.

 

Haven't taken any pics, but the holster is a velcro wrap-around type, hip type, to take pistols with lights/lasers/Lams attached.

 

The holster can be cut to accept the added scope/dot sight. For now i have set the holster up at it's widest/largest size it will go.

 

This is hard to describe, but a right hand hip holster, on the left hip (so backwards then) and the Glock sort of sits in it scoped up, the thumb break will just go over the grip. I will use a lanyard when i try it out.

I hope to pick up another Viper molle/hip holster at the weekend as they will take a MK23 without a LAM unit, and with some creative cutting and man-sewing should cope with a scope set-up.

 

A smaller lower profile scope/dot sight would make this easier.

I looked into grafting a Hi-cappa 5.1 open sight onto the slide, doable with some work. Cost about £38 for adjustable bomar rear and hi-vis front blade, be easier to carry. The scope mount was cheaper and also with work useable.

 

Why can't TM make an adjustable sight for them :(

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Carrying on from above.

 

The scope mount dosen't like the Glock, it creeps forward on recoil. I don't want to over tighten it and damage the lower frame. It will get reworked (bent) to fit the Mk23 next.

 

On to other things. Today i got some range time, this is a first for me in airsoft.

 

Plywood targets about upper torso size where set at 20m 40m 70m. Didn't take FPS or temps, both pistols used the same Aimtop green gas and Guarder .28s.

 

I got to dial in hop units. The MK23 is stock apart from a nineball purple rubber, the Glock has had lots of work and also a nineball purple rubber.

 

Warmed up with some .25s. Both pistols to point of aim at 20m, both pistols would just about make 40m, wind became a factor as well.

Swapped to .28s, Mk23 first, dropping before 40m, hop fully on, aiming for top third of the target to get a hit.

 

The Glock next, with a hop adjustment getting to 40m with no problems other than wind. Flying flatter than the MK23 and it still has some hop adjustment left.

I tried for 50m, aiming at the top of the target i was able to hit it. It may require a triple tap in game but long shots are doable, just don't count on hitting what you aim at, 40m bang on with scope for a bit more. Shots would carry further but a hit would be a fluke than a aimed direct hit. Still nice to know how far it will send a BB.

 

I had a play around with the MK23 and put the stock TM hop rubber back in. I reckon the G17 has a greater range of adjustment than the MK23, i did try to wrap some PTFE tape round the hop rubber to increase the hop effect. The Hop arm is single sided and i am aware they can be bent if you over do things. I will experiment later, maybe make a shim patch. There is limited space in the hop chamber for packing it out. I don't want to overstress things as spares here will involve a whole new pistol.

I was trying to get it shooting as flat as possible. Effective to 40m yes. It can shoot further but i need the range time to work out hold over. I think i can tweek it slightly to up the effective range a bit more.

This is on my 350fps max power limit. It has been cold and i reckon around 290-300fps with .20s if i had chronoed today.

 

End result the Glock is dialled to 40m and can hit to 50m and can carry shots beyond that, fluke hits at extreme range are possible.

Mk23, seems to lack enough hop adjustment for the .28s. 40m yes. Beyond that i need more time to work out the flight path and holdover. The BBs will carry further but not as flat as the G17.

 

It was an interesting morning of range time, one fully dialled in :) one needing a tweek and more range time.

Any thoughts or advice welcome. It will be a few weeks before i am able to do any more work or get to a game.

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This required some Dremeling(sp?) of the mount and my precious Guarder frame, but nothing too drastic. Using this to mount reflex sight: http://ukmcpro.co.uk/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.product_details&flypage=yagendoo_VaMazing_zoom2.tpl&category_id=195&product_id=3250&Itemid=113

 

I already know this thing will reliably hit a man sized target at 50m in summer (propane, Guarder .28s), now I just need to sight in with the reflex sight.

More of an IPSC pistol to be honest but suits both indoor and outdoor use. I always get it chronoed on the BBs I intend to use (.28).

 

423529_10150536876966409_715541408_9235260_35367432_n.jpg

 

Parts list if anyone is interested:

PGC 17 custom slide and threaded barrel, Guarder OD frame, Guarder trigger bar, Guarder recoil and hammer springs, PDI winter piston head, Laylax 6.03 tightbore and "purple" hop. 5KU flared magwell, FAB defense USM for mount and el-crapola generic reflex sight on top.

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The scope mount dosen't like the Glock, it creeps forward on recoil. I don't want to over tighten it and damage the lower frame.

 

That's what the groove on the rail is for; that accessories and mountings don't slide out on their own or from recoil. A simple fix is to put in a grub screw through the mount catching the rail at the groove.

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Renecadecow, the scope mount is designed for square frames/20mm rails, the Glock has a rounded tip to it, so the mount dosen't sit right. Also the missing recoil pin from the mount :) the Glock is slotted forward on it's rail, the scope mount has a rearward cut, it dosen't line up on a Glock.

It's not worth the hassle of drilling and tapping a poor grade material that already has fitment issues, as it was cheap i can butcher it to fit other things.

Lesson learnt, buy a Glock fitting mount not a universal mount.

 

Strangely the Glock is dialled in for 40m on iron sights with .28s, the MK23 is not giving enough Hop effect so will have to go back to .25s.

 

SenorBears set up is what i should have got :) i also have a 6.03 112.5mm Nineball barrel and purple hop and upgraded piston head, i got 40m with .28s in quite cold conditions on Green gas.....Sooooo i could get to 50m, but when things warm up i should also see more accurate shots to 50m as the G17 still has some hop adjustment left to play with, who needs a AEG, i might sell the MK23 and get another Glock.

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Dagonet,

 

On the Glock front, try it in a HERA carbine kit.

 

My stock (ish) TM G17 in a HERA was causing some serious panic last time it came out in woodland, they thought it was an AEG semi sniper...

 

(AEG sniper rifles have a 425 fps limit) and they mistook the 0.28's whistling past their heads (at 250 ish) for an SASR with a 30m med...

 

One chap (after the 4th time I shot him - in the same spot) started screaming his displeasure and informing me where he was going to stick my "sniper rifle"...

 

I have some cheap MBUS knock offs on it at the minute, but I like the look of your red dot.

 

I'm going to try fitting the HERA with the GSPEC barrel currently in my MK23 (Silencer adapter sat waiting...)

 

Jim

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On my range day i got lucky and one of the marshalls wanted to feel the shot.

 

So he trotted off down range and i shot him...several times....just to be sure. He was wearing a bomber jacket and could feel the bb's pushing into it, i could hear them hit. The jacket absorbed the impact but he said you would know you got hit, that was around 35-40m range .28's.

 

The red dot sight is a Walther, think it's 35mm objective lense, the dot height when mounted is lower than the panorama type sights (senorbears piccy) the mount does twang slightly when firing on the Glock (single side mount V wrap-around like senors) The lower the red dot height the better, i can see why real shooters go for a slide mount Docter red dot, it's something you have to play with, and get used to. I found my mount too high on the Glock, a proper spec mount may come later.

 

At the moment, to much choice to little money..... the MK23 may be going as the G17 is outshooting it, and a nice 6" TM Python has cropped up local to me. Might go Pro Glock with the Python as left hand back up piece.

Going to try the stock rubber again on the 23 see if it will give enough lift to .28s.

 

On a side note, i sold my M14, never really got going with it. Chap bought it, pimped it with silencer and rear scope mount, saw a piccy of him using it in game :) next game he went to....he fell over, landed on it (big chap) it died in action, i think it wanted it that way, better than being in a box in a dark garage :(

 

Gisburn sounds like we meet the same players, 4 times in one spot, what a nob. I get fun when silenced, didn't hear a shot, can't see no one, don't count then, so you pop off another then they start shooting back :) most of the regulars are now used to the pistol nutbar with the big silencer and some reckon my range is greater than it really is, a myth i am happy to encourage to install fear into others (then again confirmed 50m is possible with a G17, and MK23s are of course bigger and more awesome :) )

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quiet but ticking over nicely in here. we pistol only types are a rare breed :D

 

Now hopefully as things warm up in the UK, and the woodland starts to go green again, we pistol players have more cover to make up for lack of extreme range and silly rate of hi-cap fire.

 

That and the club i am in have another site coming which is ment to have a lot of sandbag works and a trench system, quite a few members have been buying shotties as well, really looking forward to that when it happens.

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Does the carbine kitted 18c count? :P

May have to get a 4x32 for it....should be some serious fun in summer...

 

Currently waiting on the AIP "steel hammer parts" as the "roller" part of the hammer snapped on propane and 150% hammer spring :(

 

419022_10150536876681409_715541408_9235257_1305892780_n.jpg

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