Sniper Pistols

[Dagonet]

Running out of forum memory space so no piccys Senorbear.

 

Been looking at real IPSC Glocks for ideas, as well as normal G18 / G34 / G17c slides.

My Guarder G17 slide came in at 71grams over the stock TM G17 slide at 36grams, you can drop 10+grams from the BBU as well (i managed 13g)

 

From looking at other slide profiles you can see a large portion of the upper is machined out on 18/34, the G17c has five porting holes instead, both are doable with a drill and dremel and a steady hand.

 

I am thinking of removing the front portion. I don't have the tools to machine out the rear upper over the BBU like on a G18.

I might do some side porting where the "Austria" logo is.

 

Amount of work will depend on weight of material removed, aiming for 15grams, so i won't know until i start drilling.

Might go for long slots like the salinet arms slides.

 

I will have a rummage through my photos as i have resized some for memory space, so might put them up again here.

 

Edit.

The Glock ones have gone from my attachments folder, i may well delete 2010 photos, then resize and re add if needed, i bumped an old thread by Kunlun on IPSC Glocks, his work has finished the thread is dead so can delete those and free up more memory, i doubt too many read through the whole of this thread anyway so will have a delete session, means i can add some new ones in here and maybe drop one in the Glock picture thread

Hopefully gaming again this weekend so might lighten the slide over the next few days, will take and add some piccys when finished. The swiss cheesed BBU is something to see

[J.J.Simpson]

Quick question - can pistol mag be modded to go with HPA?

[Dagonet]

Yes they can, no i don't know exactly how to !

 

From watching the airsoft IPSC videos on you tube, they do crop up, a small belt rig, coiled hose into the fill valve, i would have a look into paintball kit websites for the bits.

 

The magazine would need modifying, from what i have seen, the gas fill valve is removed, re-tapped for a HPA valve, i will assume the PSI is regulated down via the small CO2 capsule belt rig. The pistols using this are very heavily modified IPSC, doable but maybe not so good for running about the woods with

Thats the limit of my knowledge, i decided that it would be too costly and not as practical as normal mags, so stayed with normal gas mags.

 

Although interested in anyone else having done a conversion or any pointers to english langauge websites with details

[Dagonet]

Had a go at reducing slide weight on a Guarder G17 slide.

 

Shop said 85grams, slide weighed 71grams, i have removed 4grams by filing out the top front portion like a G18.

 

The top of the slide is thinner than the side walls, so a greater reduction would be had by milling out the sides, i may attempt some side porting at a later date, i would prefer to have access to some better equipment, a pillar drill would be handy for more accurate work.

From what i have learnt today, i reckon a Glock side could be milled away like an M9 slide. I haven't seen any quoted weights for the Salient Arms slides, but the amount of machine work on them..... i doubt i could get close to them.

 

Strangely it was easier to remove 13grams from the BBU, more to do with the close to lead metal used for them, could still lose another few grams there if i have a very steady hand.

Still losing 17grams is not bad going, i was hoping to remove about 15 from the slide, but the pistol will become more competiton peice than rolling about in the woods.

 

Other work done.

The hop unit, i have dismantled it, tweeked the hop arm as BB's curl right at 45+m, also de-burred and honed the female part, and filed out where the outer hop nub locates. I have made a slight gain in parts fit when the hop is rebuilt, hopefully this will equate to a gain in long range performance. In short the unit with rubber+barrel now builds together tighter.

 

Short stroking.

Redone the trigger, now set back to where the safety engages, no dead pull.

Made a dense rubber foam buffer for the slide, this is glued to the inside of the frame, the slide lock is still enabled as it's handy when gaming, you don't have to count shots.

 

Polishing.

Stock recoil guide rod, deburred casting marks removed, blacking removed and polished.

Slide contact points on the frame have been deburred and polished.

Lower of the BBU has been stoned and polished, the BBU sits slightly lower than in a stock TM slide so the BBU has more contact with the hammer bearing, this is a sticking point.

Giving the contact points a polish job will see a gain in performance, slide cycle is feelably smoother.

Also gave the hop unit feed ramp a tickle as well, as it's got that blacking on it.

 

The TM Night sights catch on the scope mount when trying to remove the slide. It's faster and less effect on zero to remove the slide over the scope&mount, the rear sight has been filed down to pass through the mount, this means i can stop and field service the slide mid game with ease. I use wet lubes after around 400rds a re lube is handy as the slide can start to stick around 500rds (yes i get through that many BBs)

 

Cosmetic.

Bit of weathering to the slide, while the finish seems to scratch easy enough it takes a bit to remove, also whited out the trades for when i put a photo in the Glock thread as they seem to like trademarks over there

 

Should be out playing this weekend so will find out how the rebuild has worked. Performance is very close to stock, hopefully it will be playable into winter, with only the expected decrease in gas performance.

[Dagonet]

That was a bit of a shock today.

 

Test driving the Glock, zeroed the red dot, reset the hop.

Bit warm today so good PSI from the gas.

 

As normal 40 meters very good upper body hits, bit of holdover and 50m was doable, shot, adjust aim, shot, a double or triple tap and targets to 50 are doable.

With a lot of aiming off and accounting for wind drift, hits out to 60meters. Was able to tie up the other team at silly ranges, and then taunt them by jumping up, doing a little dance and diving off again.

 

The range i was getting was a shock, accuracy was far from good, and most hits came from blindsiding the target and walking BBs on to target and hoping to hit before they worked out what was going on.

This was on open ground with little cover so targets are standing upright with no tree cover. He with most range and high ground wins.

 

Slide function felt as snappy as the stock plastic slide, by the end of the day the BBU/loading nozzle had dried out and was causing slide hang ups, bit noisy for sniping, the MK23 would have been better.

Dashed good fun and i was able to tie up several members of the OPFOR on my own while the rest of my team waded in elsewhere

[J.J.Simpson]

Yes they can, no i don't know exactly how to !

 

From watching the airsoft IPSC videos on you tube, they do crop up, a small belt rig, coiled hose into the fill valve, i would have a look into paintball kit websites for the bits.

 

The magazine would need modifying, from what i have seen, the gas fill valve is removed, re-tapped for a HPA valve, i will assume the PSI is regulated down via the small CO2 capsule belt rig. The pistols using this are very heavily modified IPSC, doable but maybe not so good for running about the woods with

Thats the limit of my knowledge, i decided that it would be too costly and not as practical as normal mags, so stayed with normal gas mags.

 

Although interested in anyone else having done a conversion or any pointers to english langauge websites with details

 

 

GAS Sniper threads are full of info on that. HPA Provides steady PSI + higher PSI. You just need permission from field owners for that...

[Bobby Lemain]

Soooo, long time no update!

 

Digicon Straight Custom: Trying to source an SCS barrel and some mags still because AZeus05 and Booster on CA aren't really responding to their PMs

 

Tanaka M500 6.5 inch: Hop seems to have worn in nicely! Still getting around 380 fps on .25s at room temperature and all two handed standing shots fired hit a 7"x7" square from 50' away! Not something to brag about since my backyard is tiny, but once I get that grouping down to 2" I'll be satisfied. I'm pretty sure its all user error and not the gun

 

WA SVI 6 inch: still bouncing between my stock 6" WA barrel and my 5" LRB since the LRB only does its job once in a blue moon. When it actually does work the gun fires lasers but when it doesn't I quickly holster the gun and switch to something else because its basically useless beyond 30 feet. Last game I went to the gun started venting on the first shot of every magazine and I noticed the hop unit no longer pulls the loading nozzle out of the blowback chamber so I'll need to replace the nozzle with an SD... the second ridge seen on the stock photos of the SD nozzle is completely gone on my stock one so I'm guessing the 11 years of existence must have worn it down to a stub

 

Side-sidearms:

-UHC Spring Revolver: useless. I thought I would be able to use it to 40 feet as my last ditch weapon but I'm lucky if I get 10... I just use it for plinking now

-TM M1911A1: Still chugging despite a broken nozzle return spring. I ended up loosing a magazine during an outdoor night game which has brought to my attention the fact that I shouldn't carry so many guns and so many different types of magazine out onto the field...

 

Loadout goal (primary->secondary+backups->last ditch): Straight (5 magazines), M500 (right hand, semi-auto pistol in left), 2011 (one magazine in the gun), 1911 (one magazine in the gun), if all ammo runs out, speedloader+M500 until the round ends

 

Whenever that goal is reached (or the Straight build is finished) I'll reevaluate whether or not I need that many pistols on me haha, I like feeling over-prepared!

[Senor Bear]

Dagonet, this is the BBU I am using, just under half the weight of the original IIRC: http://www.aipairsoft.com/aip/index.php?main_page=product_info&task=viewinfo&cPath=1_8_25&sort=20a&pid=676&products_id=676

Had issues with the hammer sticking on it though so have ground down that "ramp" on the BBU slightly.

[Dagonet]

Senor, did you buy direct from them ? (AIP)

 

I really must try this buying overseas thing.

 

Haven't seen the claimed weights of that BBU before, thats a lot of weight to lose, it must be quailty material/metal. The TM pot metal is easy to work on and too dense in mass to lose 1/2 the weight. There would be hardly any of the BBu left, i can only safely shed a few more grams there.

 

The Guarder slide has taken some fitting as the TM BBU sits a fraction lower, i went for stoning and a polish over a file job, but there is extra contact on the hammer bearing from the BBU hump, i might still just file a bit extra anyway.

Sure the AIP hammer set uses a 1mm larger hammer bearing as well.

Was hoping a UK retailer would have the spring guide and extended mag catch, but might try some direct shopping there.

 

Still it all worked well for most of a day, i think the loading nozzle dried out as it started sticking in the last game, and i shoehorned a vented alloy 1911 piston head in the nozzle which makes the nozzle tight in the BBU. The worry with opening up the slide is getting dirt inside. I was playing in a semi active quarry so crawling about large sand piles, but can't say the insides got any more dirty than normal.

 

I think i can lose 10grams from the slide sides (thicker material) and might have access to a proper milling machine at a later date, so could tidy up the top of the slide (maybe 1g there) and mill out "Austria - 9x19" portion of side wall.

 

Oh yes the FAB USM scope mount had a few knocks now, quailty bit of real equipment and well worth buying over a pot metal clone job

[Senor Bear]

BBU bought from RSOV, will not work with some aftermarket loading nozzles (*cough* Guarder rubbish *cough*). It is very light and seems of quite a hard metal unlike the stock one.

The AIP hammer is a load of crock, it has massive resistance against both the stock and AIP BBU and mine lost its bearings after a short while.

 

My Glock 17 has lost its power over time, quite depressing, think I may need to do a total rebuild/troubleshooting session to work out why that is, suspect it may be down to a worn hammer spring or poor seals against the loading nozzle.

I used to be able to outrange all other guns at CSW but not so any more.

 

Was best when all I had changed was the inner barrel, hop rubber and hammer spring.

 

I now use the USM on my TM 1911 for CQB as it sits with less than 1mm clearance from the slide, very good for IPSC like shooting. Think I'll stick to the MK23 and ghillie suit for sniper pistol setup

[Bobby Lemain]

I figured out how to tune the hammer spring of a Digicon Straight! Its crazy easy, will have to play test to see if its temporary or permanent and post a tutorial if the gains end up being permanent since threads on the Straight are pretty scarce.

 

Just a simple spring bending got me from an underwhelming 271 to 352 fps with the stock 6" barrel. I'm also trying to heat treat the spring to set the tension in. Hopefully I don't end up making it brittle...

[Dagonet]

I think me being unsure of online shopping might have been handy in a way, i see lots of exotic parts, but i can't buy them here in the UK so i have re-finished and re-fitted stock parts.

When i looked into getting a VSR, thats go PDI or go Laylax don't mix and match bits from different companys. Maybe keeping as many stock parts has ment less hassle.

 

Modded BBU & modded Guarder Slide 106 grams. (not including piston/nozzle etc etc)

Stock TM BBU & slide 88 grams.

Stock TM BBU & Guarder Slide 123 grams.

Stock TM slide & modded BBU 75 grams.

Stock TM slide & AIP BBU 60 grams.

 

No idea what a PGC slide weighs

 

Good going Bobby, thats quite a jump in FPS

[Bobby Lemain]

Um... well, I think I overdid it...

 

 

Thankfully after shooting more rounds through it it seemed to have settled around 370, but after getting an SCS barrel, if it raises I might have to twist the spring back the other direction!

[Bobby Lemain]

Also, anyone have any luck with the A+ REAPS buckings? I'm thinking of getting a pair for my 1911s so they can reach out further

[Dagonet]

Seen your post in the reaps thread

 

Suppose it depends where you play, 40-50 meters players take hits, i have some margin of accuracy left if i have to shoot around a plate carrier, the further out you go the lesser the impact/felt hit, this is more at the power level i play of 350max more like 300-320 depending on temperture.

 

I have been waiting for player feed back as well. Not so much for extra range but getting grouping tighter.

A few times i have pulled off a long shot and hit target, but the MK23 is slient and the hit is not always felt, and sometimes you see the target look about then play on, they don't see me, don't hear me, so assume it was a random stray bb, so i have to try and hit them again quick.

 

Now if (i could) playing at 450fps with .36 or .40 i would have pulled one in to try out. For the moment at my power level, Nineball purples or stock TM rubbers for me.

[Bobby Lemain]

I felt I'd get less biased responses here regarding why anyone would want more range for a pistol

 

Ahh. Good point. I suppose that's a problem all of us would have if we have an fps cap. I'd see people get hit by my M500, look around, then continue play.

 

I guess I'll keep my breath held and wait a little longer. The short sights on the M1911A1 don't make it a great candidate for taking long shots so I'm not in a rush to make my "secondary" weapon shoot 10' further. That's paying over a dollar per foot!

[Dagonet]

Partly why i run a redot on the Glock and intergrated a rail onto the MK23, the better field of vision and precise aiming mark do wonders for me.

 

Always found over 30m it becomes more pot luck on normal pistol iron sights, as the body of the pistol blocks most of the target picture, then again most real pistols are set for 25m and not really expected to go beyond (even though they can) depends on the shooter.

Could be my eyes aren't to good at following a BB on an obscured by the pistol flight path

 

If i was allowed to run at 450+ under snipers rules of play and MEDs then i would have tried it out as it is most of my play is 30-50meters and the standard hop rubbers are good for that, and the red dot sight allows better aiming on a person trying to hide behind a tree.

 

RenegadeCow has a scoped up 1911 in the early pages of this thread

[Bobby Lemain]

Found the picture! Not bad not bad Renegade

 

I'm in the middle of finally obtaining an SCS barrel and more mags for the Digicon so once that gets straightened out I'll be on the look for some optics and a way to cover up the 2" of barrel that will be sticking out... I think I might just be lazy and slap a compensator looking tube on the end of the barrel and call it a day

[Dagonet]

Just an idea for you Bobby.

 

When i started doing my G17, i ordered a 5.1" barrel (or so i thought) turned out pistol barrels are sold on slide length not actual barrel length so i was expecting around 120mm but got the standard 1911/2011 112.5mm.

 

Now at this time threaded outer barrels for TM G17 had vanished from the market, so i set about extending my stock TM outer to take a 120mm barrel.

 

I used a piece of an easton alloy arrow shaft. Bored out the muzzle of the stock outer to accept the shaft, drilled some smaller holes in the outer barrel to inject hotmelt glue, this has secured it nicely.

Then cut back to length, and to bring the outer diameter back to near normal, glue on a bit of copper pipe, fill the muzzle with resin then bore out and do some comp holes.

Nice photo on page 17, you see the copper where the paint came off trying to fit it in the Guarder slide.

 

As it's a moving part the inner barrel has been shimmed to fit perfectly in the arrow shaft.

Mine was about 2" but has been cut back. Bit of a ghetto fix but i can reverse it, and it was free, lightweight so dosen't interfere with the cycle action of the pistol.

[Bobby Lemain]

Ahh, I see I see, nice work! With a fresh paint job it looks like it came that way

 

I'd do something similar if my gun had a more easily replaceable outer barrel but since the inner barrel for a Custom Straight is centered by the very tip of the outer barrel (without that removable tip the inner barrel is free to flop around), I can see why the people on the classicairsoft board got CNC threaded tips made when the KM accessory went out of stock

[gijohn2]

Finally got to test my pistol ( TM 5.1 Hi-capa) at long range and according to google earth it was reaching out to 80 meters and thats only with these 2 upgrades:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Airsoft-Laser-Cut-Mag-Shim-TM-P226r-Hi-Capa-Mk23-M1911A1-Detonics-M92F-5-7-Px4-/140675486494?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D2367527553535639108%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1017%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D140675486494%26#ht_672wt_1111

 

http://www.ebairsoft.com/plus-studio-devil-pistol-inner-barrel-113mm-p-5643.html

[renegadecow]

Does that barrel come with that REAPS hop up rubber? And what's the grouping at 80 (and bb weight)?

[Dagonet]

Watching with interest

 

What gas, rough temp ?

What FPS on .20 (is it playable safe FPS or high FPS)

 

On flat ground or shooting from an upstairs window ?

What size target could you hit ?

How often could you hit it ?

Flat shooting to 80m or Lobbing to 80m ?

 

What Renegade cow said too.

 

Google earth measurments might be off, can't beat a tape measured distance, more information is needed.

I can shoot .30's flat to almost 50m and be able to aim off to 60+, we tried 70+ but i was aiming about 10foot above and 6 feet to the right of the player i was trying to hit, so no accuracy and serious lobbing of shots.

So i am only really accurate to 50m then accuracy drops off lots, although i can get the BB's to travel much further.

 

Will your set up get me shooting players at 80m ?

 

We needs more info

[gijohn2]

@cow, it's just the barrel and firing blaster .25 using propane

 

@dago, as for FPS I don't have a clue as pistols using propane/ green gas don't have to be tested

 

As for groupings and trajectory I didn't think of testing at the time and won't be able to test for a long while

I was shooting a slight down hill but nothing major. This is where I was shooting from http://i.imgur.com/cYOKa.jpg

[Dagonet]

Welcome to the long range pistol club where i play only take an interest in CO2 pistols, someone had bought a second hand STTI MK23, i borrowed the chrono and we tested it with the extended barrel, don't know what gas he used, but hit 346fps on .20s so safe to use, was around 290 without the extra barrel.

 

Mine where pulling 280 on .30s with green gas, about 15oc today

 

Had a nice pistol rage out today, took the MK23 for a blast, same old things, slient kills, watch the player look about, realize your there then raise a hand.

We had an encounter over a flood lake, my body guard and me stood and taunted the other team, we where out of there range, as it happened we where enough of a distraction as the rest of our team hit them hard.

I tried a few shots, 60+ slight cross wind over water, could see them dropping short and started walking shots in, used a small island to get another 5m closer, 3rd shot the yellow players hand went up my bodyguard was most impressed, although i doubt it was me that got him.

 

One of the games involved domination flags, while bagging an outlying flag things got fun. Open ground, no cover, we make a 200m dash, my bodyguard runs out to my right, and makes for the slight cover above the flag, i set about changing the flag, the other team have spotted us and are moving in quick, 3 fast players with AEGs and a not so fast player with an AEG.

They get dangerously close to me and i have to abandon the flag (the guy rope has been tied off, lots, i need a few minutes to untangle it) my body guard gets hosed by 3 players. They have a height advantage over me, but i am matching there range.

I get one player, the other two back off, i advance, they hose, i back off......i draw the Franken Glock, the players are newbies and not ready for a dual wield pistol charge attack, i manage to bag the pair of them, the forth player has been taken out by my other team members from behind.

I quickly medic my bodyguard back in, set the regen flag, and we go hunting again

 

Next job will be a winter barrel for the MK23, going to trim down the JG VSR G-spec inner so i get 350fps in the cold months.

The Glock ran without issue all day, apart from a mag decided to leak gas.