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WE M14 Gas Blowback Rifle

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man!.. this ###### me off... i just cant decide which one to get! KJ m4 or we m14... Darn me... u guys have any recommend?..in bangkok kj is about 400 $us n we m14 is 530 $us .. which one first u say!?

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man!.. this ###### me off... i just cant decide which one to get! KJ m4 or we m14... Darn me... u guys have any recommend?..in bangkok kj is about 400 $us n we m14 is 530 $us .. which one first u say!?

 

That's like asking "Should i buy a Ferrari or a small airplane ?!". They are very different weapons, for different people and "roles".

 

What you should be asking is "Would i want an M4 or a M14" ...

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from the sounds of the above posts it's more of a "do I want it to work well or not"

 

Don't know why you're saying that ... i still haven't had any problems with the M14 and with heavier BB's the M14 actually out ranges my old KJW ?

You could say that the KJW still "beats" the M14 with < .28g BB's at this point but to me and until something breaks on the M14 i still think they are on the same level. :huh:

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I then switched to G&G .28g BB's and oh boy ... what a difference! After tuning the hop-up i could hit tree trunks ( about the same width of a human torso ) 8 out of 10 times from about 50~60m and the BB's would fly past that easily. Measuring with the GPS we could estimate that with the .28g BB's and with the M14 shooting at 500fps the maximum range was in average 70 to 80m with an effective range of about 60~70m.

 

500fps with a .28g bb isn't going to work at many sites here in the states or in the UK. Way above 1j or 1.5j limits. Even on duster that is still going to be too powerful.

Edited by frogfish

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why is math too difficult for you?

 

He clearly states he is getting 500fps with a .28g bb. that measures out to 3.3j or 600 fps with a .20g bb.

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500fps with a .28g bb isn't going to work at many sites here in the states or in the UK. Way above 1j or 1.5j limits. Even on duster that is still going to be too powerful.

 

It was measured with .20g of course ... 500 fps with .28g would be INSANE! We have a 1.3J limit imposed by law here and off course that is what the M14 will run at.

 

All the comparisons i make are always using similar conditions and this one wasn't an exception. I always use the same type of BB's on my guns,

 

.20g on pistols and AEG's ( they are all running at 330fps max )

.25 and .28 on all my assault rifles ( they are all running at 380fps max )

.28g and .34g on my DMR and Sniper rifles ( the M14 is stock so it's running 420fps on Green, the exception is my AW338 which is running at 590fps with Co2 )

 

When i said that the M14 out ranged my KJW, that was with both guns using the same BB's ( G&G .28g ) and the same gas ( Propane ). Yes they gave different chrono readings ( ~430 fps vs ~500 fps ) but i don't have access to the KJW right now so i can't put Guarder Gas in it. They are both great guns but my KJW never reached that distance ( 80m MEASURED by GPS ) with such a heavy BB.

 

Each one of the guns/replicas have their strong and weak points but to me as of now they are equal. I just said that comparing an M14 with an M4 was kinda pointless since they are very different guns. Whatever gun he chooses be it either the KJW M4 or the WE M14, he'll be well served.

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Why is English so difficult for you?

 

He didn't say the rifle was doing 500 FPS with a 0.28g BB.

 

He said that he was shooting 0.28g BB's from an M14 firing at 500 FPS.

 

This could obviously mean either. Logic dictates that danielsilva, being an experienced airsofter and forum member, would chrono the rifle with a 0.20g BB. However, the laws in his country, I think I'm right in saying, allow for higher FPS limits, so it might not have been a problem for him.

 

And it's 'Mathematics' or 'Maths', not 'Math'.

 

Ben.

 

EDIT:: He got there first, but you get the gist. ;)

Edited by L4byr1nth

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that with the .28g BB's and with the M14 shooting at 500fps

 

This makes it sound like you were getting 500fps with .28s

 

 

Even with .20g BBs it is still too powerful on greengas, full auto capable replicas at most sites in the US are limited to around 400-450fps with a .20g bb or roughly 1.5j to 1.8J, Energy restrictions are lower in the UK aren't they?

 

With a topped off mag getting it's first shot at 540fps even if it's possible it's something most safety officers should be aware of and may make them monitor the gun.

 

Duster may solve this problem. It sounds like an NPAS is needed.

 

It also sounds like there are consistency issues with the hop-up (odd fliers), and the replica rattling itself to bits... The condensation in the mechanism is something else, I have never seen this with any other GIM GBBRs that I have owned, could water in the hop be causing the issues with consistency every so often.

 

I'm still looking forward to a SOCOM or a gen 2 JAE stock priced for airsoft for these, just so I can have it on my wall.

Edited by frogfish

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These aren't AEG's.

 

Consistency issues are common, and periodic tightening of the screws are required during regular maintenance to prevent issues due to the mechanic vibration of the gun. I always check the main screws of my SCAR whilst lubricating it before each game.

 

Also, I don't think anyone should skirmish one without an NPAS to control the FPS.

 

Ben.

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I've owned enough of these to know that the consistency issues with the hop he's having are a bit beyond the norm. fliers are not common, unless you have air seal, hop, or valve problems.

 

And your post criticizing me is so full of contradictions that even you recognized it. He needed to clarify that he was not getting 500fps with .28g BBs, and he did, there was no need to challenge my comprehension of the english language. Your statement about measuring velocity was so far from right that it deserved my response, velocity can be measured however the poster feels, as long as it is clarified in a way which others can understand. There is a post on the page before where we see a gentalman testing the velocity with various different BB weights, just as an example.

 

Also Mathmatics is proper, and so is math. Maths (at least in American english) is slang, and not a proper spelling, so there was no need to correct me.

Edited by frogfish

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One point with GBBs: chronoing with a 0.2g BB may not indicate the true power output of the rifle.

 

Simple test: Take say a WE PDW, or any other GBB etc etc.

 

Chrono this with a 0.2g BB, work the KE=1/2 MV^2 to get the energy and then change the M to what ever heavier BB you are using and get the expected velocity back. That is what velocity you should expect if you used the heavier ammo.

 

Chrono this with the heavier ammo, and work out the KE. You should see a higher KE. And You should also see that the expected velocity does not equate to the actual velocity, and infact the actual velocity will be higher than the expected velocity.

 

Reason: A 0.2g BB will accelerate out of the barrel before the energy of the expanding gas is fully harnessed by the BB. A heavier BB will stay in the barrel for a slightly lower period hence be able to utilise MORE of the energy gained/exerted by the expanding gas.

 

Of course this is dependent on barrel length but theory is the same.

 

So if one wants to limit GBBRs one has to limit by energy of the BB output of the specific BB, and not of the FPS at 0.2g as with AEGs.

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And your post criticizing me is so full of contradictions that even you recognized it. He needed to clarify that he was not getting 500fps with .28g BBs, and he did, there was no need to challenge my comprehension of the English language. Your statement about measuring velocity was so far from wrong (Ed. - Thanks, I knew I was right, no need to point it out ;)) that it deserved my response; velocity can be measured however the poster feels, as long as it is clarified in a way which others can understand. There is a post on the page before where we see a gentleman testing the velocity with various different BB weights, just as an example.

 

Fixed.

 

I think you should stop now. My post was 100% correct, free of contradiction, and to the point. Yours are just hot air. I'm not going to go off-topic any further on this though (Although I think you'll find 'Math' is American-English...).

 

Through my experience, fliers on a GBBR can be down to the loading action chipping the BB, not just hop or air seal issues.

 

Anyone know when the M21/M14 DMR version is due out?

 

Ben.

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Even with .20g BBs it is still too powerful on greengas, full auto capable replicas at most sites in the US are limited to around 400-450fps with a .20g bb or roughly 1.5j to 1.8J, Energy restrictions are lower in the UK aren't they?

 

With a topped off mag getting it's first shot at 540fps even if it's possible it's something most safety officers should be aware of and may make them monitor the gun.

 

Actually getting hot readings in the first shot is a common thing specially with mags with larger reservoirs and/or with more powerful gases ( i get the same readings on my AW338 for example, it stabilizes at 550 fps with GG, yet the first shot always tops out at close to 600fps ).

 

Duster may solve this problem. It sounds like an NPAS is needed.

 

True. But that doesn't make it a "bad point", it's a matter of perspective.

 

It also sounds like there are consistency issues with the hop-up (odd fliers), and the replica rattling itself to bits... The condensation in the mechanism is something else, I have never seen this with any other GIM GBBRs that I have owned, could water in the hop be causing the issues with consistency every so often.

 

Dunno about you but EVERY GBBR i've owned ( i believe me i have had my fair share .... ) had something i would need to tighten down and/or locktite it and that includes the KJW. Besides the only thing i had to tighten and/or apply loctite on the M14 was the operating rod cap and the front sight, huge problem right ? :blink:

 

I don't know if L4byr1nth was right or not, but either you honestly misread what i wrote or you are doing some selective reading ...

I very clearly said that i had the odd flier ONLY when i dumped 3 or more consecutive worth of BB's with the same magazine ( it was 25C outside and even so the condensation on the mag outer shell was clearly visible ) and NEVER when only fresh mags were used.

 

I could clearly see water coming from the ejection port and from the tip of the barrel. I have seen this happen in all my GBBR's if i stress them in similar conditions, be it either from water that forms inside the hop-up unit from condensation or in extreme cases from FPS variations due to liquid gas spewing from the very cold mag into the inner barrel, with then expands on the inner barrel and gives more power than usual ( this is actually VERY common on Co2 guns, especially those who use co2 caplets without a regulator system ). During normal operation/gaming i never had a flier.

 

I don't know why people continuously turn these questions into pissing contest about their favorite brands. I'll say it again, until something breaks on my M14 i'll still consider it as good as my KJW.

 

 

PS:

 

Pardon my wonky English but it's late, i had a few too many beers and i just don't have the will to correct my mistakes :P:D

Edited by danielsilva

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FPS is always measured with a 0.20g, or it's cheating.

 

Ben.

 

 

Don't see how Ed's comment helps you with this, it's wrong, it's not cheating to chrono with something other than .2s, and in fact Ed's statement shows that chronoing with .2s is a bad idea as higher weight BBs will present higher actual energy values compared to theoretical energy values.

 

 

Measuring with the GPS we could estimate that with the .28g BB's and with the M14 shooting at 500fps the maximum range was in average...

 

It might not have been your intent to say this, but the way this comment is presented it says that you are shooting .28g BBs out of a replica chronoing at 500fps. You didn't specify that its 500fps with .20s, just that you were shooting 500fps and using .28g bbs. If you presented an energy value instead of the velocity it would have been much clearer.

 

 

 

As for replicas rattling themselves apart I have only seen this on at home installed DTG conversion kits. I've owned AGMs, WOCs, GHKs, WE SCAR, SPs, Escort modifed SPs, AS4L modified SPs, and heavily used DTG built replicas, and never had a replica rattle itself apart. Fliers, with all those replicas, were only present when there was a problem, typically related to a hop-up seating problem (or hop-up break in for escort hops), a valve efficiency problem, or air seal issues (including nozzle bite). Havign nly briefly owned the WE SCARs I never experienced fliers, one of the SCARs I owned became a paperweight very shortly after purchase (AB was out of parts), and the other was only in my possession for a month. If that is something to expect out of WEs than that is not good to hear.

 

The starting pressure is another issue entirely, I never saw a 40 FPS variance out of a full mag as compared to one that had a shot off of it, 10 or 20 yes, on HOT days possibly close to 30, but I have never seen 40 variance ever, even with Tanaka weapons.

Edited by frogfish

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Don't see how ed's comment helps you with this, it's wrong, it's not cheating to chrono with something other than .2s, and in fact Ed's statement shows that chronoing with .2s is a bad idea as higher weight BBs will present higher energy values compared to theoretical energies.

 

Skirmish limits are set with 0.20g's. If you're chronoing with anything other than that in order to get out on the field and skirmish, it's cheating in the form of evading the chrono.

 

Of course, if you're chronoing just to see what your gun is doing, or you're doing it at home, then fair enough, use what you want. Also, if you're intentionally under the limit in order to use 0.30g's, then it's alright (as long as you chrono with 0.20g's so we can see what the gun is actually doing).

 

As for the other comment, I corrected your mistakes. I think you'll find I'm the least patriotic person living in the UK, so I won't rise to your poor attempts at baiting me.

 

Ben.

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Skirmish limits are set with 0.20g's. If you're chronoing with anything other than that in order to get out on the field and skirmish, it's cheating in the form of evading the chrono.

 

Ah see but you are judging the rest of the world off of this, and in fact this is not the case at all. Many sites here use .25g BBs (for a short time in Houston we used .23g BBs because our primary retailer at the time had them cheap), and some actually just ask you what weight you are using and compare to a chart listing energy, weight, and velocity. I know some locations that don't even care about BB weight and simply want you to chrono below a certain velocity no matter the bb weight. Other locations don't chrono at all and others discuss spring rates (i.e. M90, M120, ect.) although both of these types of sites are rare. However; the most common way in the US is to measure energy, and 400FPS w/ a .2g BB is an easy benchmark for ~1.5J, but you can see many organizations in the US switching over to a chart based system to determine energy with any BB weight. This is all theoretical, and as ED said the theoretical values will not match actual output, and this is a potential problem for higher powered GIM GBBRs like this one if Duster or an NPAS are not available.

 

 

In some ways this makes me jealous of the regulations in the UK, but then I look at other parts of your regs and feel sorry for you (in that the regs are absurd in certain respects).

 

As for my comment on your persistent attempts to correct my spelling, I removed it, it was unnecessary, as is correcting my spelling.

Edited by frogfish
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Ahhh right, I was just talking generally, but all sites in the UK chrono with 0.20g, as far as I'm aware, as do most in the world (or so I thought!).

 

Some of those chrono rules sound ridiculous!

 

As for this M14, I'd buy one immediately if it wasn't so heavy. I think I'll have to wait and see one in the flesh, to be honest.

 

Ben.

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I totally agree, it's a freaking M14, and I'm sure RAtech or WE themselves will come out with solutions, or people will figure out how to solve them (i.e. teflon tape or something like it). But right now, I'm just not sure if this is a skirmish weapon or a wow factor weapon (I would prefer skirmish).

 

As for the weight, that's why I want a SOCOM (even though it's not that much lighter) or a JAE stock for them.

 

Just look at it...

 

JAE+100+20Grit+20Tan+1A1226776530.jpg

 

 

BTW anyone heard anything about the EBR, it seemed like it was ready to go when the wood/plastic version was, or are they going to wait a bit longer.

Edited by frogfish

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It was measured with .20g of course ... 500 fps with .28g would be INSANE! We have a 1.3J limit imposed by law here and off course that is what the M14 will run at.

 

All the comparisons i make are always using similar conditions and this one wasn't an exception. I always use the same type of BB's on my guns,

 

.20g on pistols and AEG's ( they are all running at 330fps max )

.25 and .28 on all my assault rifles ( they are all running at 380fps max )

.28g and .34g on my DMR and Sniper rifles ( the M14 is stock so it's running 420fps on Green, the exception is my AW338 which is running at 590fps with Co2 )

 

When i said that the M14 out ranged my KJW, that was with both guns using the same BB's ( G&G .28g ) and the same gas ( Propane ). Yes they gave different chrono readings ( ~430 fps vs ~500 fps ) but i don't have access to the KJW right now so i can't put Guarder Gas in it. They are both great guns but my KJW never reached that distance ( 80m MEASURED by GPS ) with such a heavy BB.

 

Each one of the guns/replicas have their strong and weak points but to me as of now they are equal. I just said that comparing an M14 with an M4 was kinda pointless since they are very different guns. Whatever gun he chooses be it either the KJW M4 or the WE M14, he'll be well served.

 

Thanks man!... that what I think like u too.. they seem to be on the same level.. n i will decide next week when i can put my hand kjm4, yesterday i tried the we m14... i found that the stock is rather on the disappointment side ... it is too smooth :) for me... make my hand feel sweaty :P i think the real wood stock is a need..anyway... m14 seem to have edge on range.. but dont know how long the thing will last..unlike kjm4. which should last me a big while... well!.. let's see it next week then! cheers guys!

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Personally, the only fair way to get the FPS of a GBB anything is to use the weight of BB you are going to use on the field. Anything else IS cheating the chrono. As someone else pointed out, just because your gun chrono's at 400 w/ .20's doesn't mean it chronos at 1.5J with .28's. Heck most AEG's dont even follow that rule, but that is besides the point. GBB's do not follow the same principles that AEG's do for FPS readings, because our gas expands, therefore, your muzzle energy (if your limit is 1.5J) needs to be the equivilant of 1.5J with whatever BB weight you are using, not of .20's. The reason that is fair is because my own WOC chronos at 455 w/ .28's and chronoes at 455 w/ .25's and about 445 w/ .20's.

 

The idea of using a BB Weight chart VS FPS is probably the smartest and best way to figure out acceptable FPS using certain BB weights.

 

At anyrate, whoever asked about when the M21 was being released, it IS released, remove the fire selector and you are done. The original M21 was just an accurized, semi auto, wood stocked M14 with an ART Scope on it. The modern M21 hasn't changed much from that but uses either the M1 or M3 scopes in it's place. The USMC DMR stock is used in conjunction with USMC Semi Auto only M14's, not M21's. Sorry, side tangent :D

 

Beautiful M14's guys, I can't wait to see what the first one does with an NPAS and an HPA rig :D

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