Benelli M1014

[hitmanNo2]

What are the details of that M1100 notrabies? Running on HPA? It looks to be throwing those shells out with a lot of force.

[notrabies]

Okay here's some details to tide you guys over.

First off, that's my M1100 with a fair amount of modifications. It used to be the standard composite stock model, but when I developed issues with a leaking gas line, I cut it down and replaced it with a pistol grip, and the pistol grip gas tank used on the M1100 Revision and a few models of M870's long discontinued.

It currently looks like this:

 

I am using green gas, and the shorter hose length boosts the power slightly (massively on an M870).

I've recently put two parts in there that made all the difference in the world.

 

Somehow I managed to acquire 2 brand new extractors, so one is on there with one in reserve, and I'm using o-rings around the shells. While it has probably only been fired about 50 times with the new extractor, there have been a record 0 stovepipes. This is a combined result of this part and the next one.

 

Surprisingly, Schaap's custom shell lifter is a huge improvement. I was expecting it to be merely an unbreakable replacement, but due to the shape of the arch and the fact that there are 2 guide rods for the shells, shells are loaded in with significantly more accuracy. Because of this, everything lines up properly, meaning no misfires and a massive reduction in jams. Despite going through many more high powered shells than an average M1100 will survive for, (I've used o-rings and green gas since day one) it is without a doubt firing better than when it was new.

While it did take some custom work to install everything properly, we're planning out some very minor modifications to improve this, and I'll be making an installation guide/video.

 

Most importantly, I lubed everything up with high quality white lithium grease. It makes a huge difference in the overall function.

[Schaap]

I had been waiting so idiotically long for other people/companies to make the magazine tube, I decided to do what I should have done a long time ago: make them myself.

After sourcing some tubes, a lathe I could use and a M24x1 tap, this project is finally back on track:

 

Even though it is aluminum, it is more than strong enough:

 

It holds, like expected, 6 shells like the real one... Great!

[Bando]

cant ..breath......pants.....too...tight...........lack of .....blood to brain......HUUUUUUNNNNGGGGGGGGwant

[Schaap]

 

It's an incredible feeling to finally be able to shoot it (nearly) fully assembled... Good stuff!

I'm using the home-made shell carrier and a modified (exchangable) extractor; both working without any problems!

[hitmanNo2]

I don't think there's a smiley that accurately describes my feeling so I'll go with

 

And also

 

[PureSilver]

Put me down for one of these kits, please. If you could get a timeframe together I (don't want to speak for others) might be able to pony up some cash in advance, if that would help! Does anyone know if these will accept a real-steel stock and handguard, or if not, what might be done so that they will? I don't see many other parts from the DE making it into the gun, so that would save me from having to buy that...

[Schaap]

Currently, the stock, stock tube, barrel, barrel nut (+ sling attachment point, which is positioned wrong on the picture, lol), front sight, front grip, and magazine cap is used from the DE M1014.

I strongly believe that a "real" front grip would greatly increase the realism of the replica. The option to install a RS stock would also be very nice.

I've talked with a RS owner about the stock: it should be possible to manufacture the receiver in such a way that the stock would fit.

The Benelli full-stock is +200$ new, the Urbino stock from Mesa Tactical (that many would prefer) is $150; quite an expensive gamble!

 

The handguard/grip on the other hand is something I've always dreamed off. Freedom Fighter Tactical makes some great affordable ($50) replica grips.

I'm pretty sure these should fit with modifications and would be absolutely worth it.

 

Currently, I do not have the time or tools to make a new barrel, but it's something I'd definitely look into once everything is ready.

 

If anyone likes gambling, I'd love to get these in my mailbox and try to mount them:

http://www.atomictactical.com/Mesa_Tactical_92760_Urbino_Stock_Benelli_M4_Coyote_p/92760.htm

 

 

About the kits:

I know this build has been on for a long time; building new kits won't take anywhere near as long.

The R&D is pretty much done, my CNC mill is now almost fully equipped and I know where to get the necessary (special) tools needed for this job.

Most of the parts in this build have a pretty short CNC-runtime but require a lot of repositioning and tool changes. For simple parts like the rear sight, this takes probably 10 times as long as the actual milling. Working with multiple fixtures and parts would mean that 4-5 parts can be made in almost the same time as one.

[PureSilver]

Currently, the stock, stock tube, barrel, barrel nut (+ sling attachment point, which is positioned wrong on the picture, lol), front sight, front grip, and magazine cap is used from the DE M1014.

 

My desire isn't to avoid buying the DE (though, obviously, I do want to avoid buying the DE!) but merely to stick as much RS and/or improved materials to this awesome receiver as I can. If I'm several hundred dollars into the gun, it seems a shame to cheap out on the furniture and fittings.

1. The stock & stock tube are really one assembly - so if one were to buy a real Benelli collapsible stock and a real stock tube, do we think that the real stock tube would/could be made to fit the new receiver? Could the person with the real M4 speak up about the stock tube?
   
2. The handgrip - if you could purchase one to try for size, you could size all the parts to fit RS handgrips, right?
   
3. RS Benelli sights shouldn't be too hard to source or fit; much the same with the magazine cap, barrel nut and sling point.
   
4. A steel barrel shouldn't present too much of a challenge to someone with a CNC lathe.
   

I know this build has been on for a long time; building new kits won't take anywhere near as long.

The R&D is pretty much done, my CNC mill is now almost fully equipped and I know where to get the necessary (special) tools needed for this job.

Most of the parts in this build have a pretty short CNC-runtime but require a lot of repositioning and tool changes. For simple parts like the rear sight, this takes probably 10 times as long as the actual milling. Working with multiple fixtures and parts would mean that 4-5 parts can be made in almost the same time as one.

 

What R&D remains?

[Schaap]

I appreciate your optimistic point of view; very motivating!

 

1. I've lost communication with the RS owner a while ago; quite a shame, as he first offered me to hook me up with pictures, measurements and even parts.

A RS stock tube (recoil tube) could be unneeded or extremely simplified. For airsoft purposes, it could simply be threaded bar of steel with some slots for the stock positions. The modifications to the receiver would simply be the removal of the block I specifically made for the attachment of the airsoft stock tube and drilling/tapping a hole to screw in the new RS(ish) tube. The trigger guard would need to be a bit redesigned.

In theory, it would be easier to design everything to RS spec and make a couple of extra pieces in case you'd want to install an airsoft stock anyway.

The reason why I haven't done this is that the RS collapsible stock is insanely priced and more importantly, the width of the stock/grip might not be equal to airsoft (which the receiver has been designed to). If the latter is equal, good. If it isn't, it would force possible users (including me) to buy a real stock with no affordable option to have the skeleton stock. I'm not trying to break down your ideas, I think it's great that you are already willing to spent the extra cost, making this replica super realistic.

 

2. About the handguards; again: receiver width. If that good, it should be easily done. The DE hand guard is indeed of poor quality and more importantly, far of the real shape because it has to fit the receiver when cocking it (I'm not sure if you are familiar to the DE M1014) - I might go ahead and order a set of these to try out.

 

3.

RS Benelli sights shouldn't be too hard to source or fit; much the same with the magazine cap, barrel nut and sling point.

I think they are all attached to the barrel as one assembly; only the front sight post and sight protector (not the base) can be ordered separate.

 

4.

A steel barrel shouldn't present too much of a challenge to someone with a CNC lathe.

True, even a one piece design is easy. But, I've asked several companies to machine the shell tube, and the price to manufacture was quite high; I can only imagine what the barrel would cost.

 

 

R&D that remains: finishing the rear sight, anodizing/painting all parts, improving the way of manufacturing parts and making the closing piece for the receiver (+ seeing how good that works)

 

Again, thanks for the interest in the project, I really appreciate it!

[uscmCorps]

Hey Schaap, sorry man, I got ridiculously busy for several months at work (7 day weeks, 15+ hour days). I'm finally on vacation now. I can't ship parts, but measurements should be fine. IM me.

[Schaap]

Haha uscmCorps, I wasn't actually refering to you! -- PM inbound!

To be clear, I don't mean to disrespect anyone, it just makes development a bit harder for me.

 

Just for those who would wonder, the dimensions of the parts are based on a mixture of airsoft parts and measurements from reference photos; taking into account the requirements for the M1100-internals.

[PureSilver]

Just for those who would wonder, the dimensions of the parts are based on a mixture of airsoft parts and measurements from reference photos; taking into account the requirements for the M1100-internals.

 

So now you can double-check the potential fitment of RS parts?

 

HURRAY! You just let us know when you're ready to start selling kits, hmm?

[Schaap]

Well... Bad luck.

The real Benelli receiver is 2mm smaller than the Double Eagle replica; which I based pretty much everything on. The CAW M1014 is much more true to the original, but unfortunately more expensive and hard(er) to get. I'm not sure what the best solution would be; let me know guys!

 

At least I got the triggerguard and trigger thickness exactly right

I'd love to check some more measurements to see if they are true to the real one.

[PureSilver]

Hmm. 2mm smaller how - thinner, shorter - in every direction? Is it possible to just 'de-extrude' (horrible wording, but trim, basically) your CAD model?

[uscmCorps]

I don't think 2mm would break the design if you left it that way. So long as it feels authentic, looks authentic, operates relatively authentic, that's about as much as anyone really wants. Take AEGs for example, those are much more than 2mm off, and yet people are fine with it. Question is, would RS parts work with it? Cuz if it did, that'd be huge to me since I have access to real parts and I'd rather install those than use the cheaper feeling airsoft parts.

[Schaap]

The receiver is currently 39mm thick (based on Double Eagle "furniture"). The measured thickness (thanks to uscmCorps) of a real Benelli is 37.1mm (CAW is pretty close to that).

Decreasing the receiver thickness to (lets say) 37.5mm as you, PureSilver, suggest shouldn't be too problematic.

 

However, having the same thickness as the RS doesn't necessarily mean that RS parts will fit. For instance, the front grip needs to be compatible with the barrel and the magazine tube and the front end of the receiver, the latter might be a hard problem to overcome (I wouldn't say impossibru).

The stock will also require quite a lot of modifications to the current design; including a new stock tube and modified triggerguard. If the angles / exact shape of the pistolgrip is a lot different, you might loose compability with the Double Eagle pistolgrip.

 

On the other hand, most people (especially Americans) would probably prefer RS compability over cheap Double Eagle parts.

Anyway, I don't feel like spending $175 on a stock and front grip to find out there is no way that it can be made to fit.

 

So long as it feels authentic, looks authentic, operates relatively authentic...

 

I'll post a render of my design compared to the real receiver; it's pretty close. The only thing that needs a little work is the rear sight.

I'm not sure about the feel, as I haven't got a real one, lol. It is a fair bit lighter, clocking in at just 2.5kg.

But I do think it operates authentic. Put in a couple of shells, pull the trigger as fast as you can and feel that spontanious smile appear on your face.

[WhiteHawksan]

what you ahve made is awesome. And the reason airsoft companies have to make compromises between RS compatibility and making a gun that works. Leave it as is, and start working on reliability, run a few thousand shells through it, see how long 'til something breaks ^^

[Schaap]

As promised, a comparison between my version and the real one:

[PureSilver]

So are you planning on making any alterations to make it more like the RS? Can uscmCorps and I persuade you to resize it to fit real-steel furniture - maybe by helping you to pay for a set...? (Er - if he's up for that, that is.)

 

[EDIT]Just to add - it looks awesome as is, anyway - huge kudos for taking on such a difficult project and being willing to share it with us![/EDIT]

[Schaap]

Optically, I think the dimensions are fine. I've asked uscmCorps to make some extra measurements on the rail and sight, because I know I've probably gone wrong there.

I'm hoping to finish the 'closing' piece of the receiver the coming week (if I got the tools I need). It's more complicated than I thought and subconsciously, that is probably why I kept it as last. Anyway, this piece should be the cherry on the cake.

 

If I knew fitting real steel parts was as simple alteration (i.e. resizing), I'd go ahead and order them. The problem is I can't guarantee I can ever get them to fit, due to the large differences between the real M4/M1014 receiver and the requirements the M1100 brings to my receiver design (especially the front end).

The stock might actually be easier to fit than the hand guards. I've seen original full stocks get sold very cheap; sourcing one like that might be a cheap viable option to find out.

[SilentObservant]

Sweet project! I am extremely interested in ordering a kit/whatever parts necessary when it becomes availible. My only concern is the quality of the DE parts, like if they feel cheap in comparision to the amazing job you've done so far.

[philsus-fubar]

heyhey, following this for a while although i had to make a fresh acount on here. still my first ever post on arnies

if you are still working on the internals i will take a whole set (lifter, carier and extrator, and if the trigger fits the stock body then a trigger too, they look damn pretty)

its VERY impressive, most people wouldnt even try somthing like this, and you have turned it into. . . well, shotgun porn.

my hats off to ya schaap

[uscmCorps]

Sorry the delay on the details. My M4 currently has a different receiver rail/shell caddy combo on it and is therefore not stock. I don't want to send you misleading info. I've got a major op coming up this Friday thru Sunday and a bunch of pressing deadlines to do over the next few days, but the info you've requested, Schaap, will be forth coming soon.

[Schaap]

No problem at all uscmCorps, take your time. I appreciate the help! The picatinny rail should be good, as it is made according to mil spec anyway.

 

I'm happy I've "lured" out a couple of "observers" to make their first post in my topic; what a honor!

 

The internals are taking a lot of time to improve, as it seems that the Maruzen systeem seems to be very picky on the exact dimensions of things.

A number of shell carriers have been sent around the world for Arnies members to try out. In my experience, the heavy stainless steel makes it hard for the recoil spring to lift. I still have to wait for more information to come in from the members that are testing the piece, but I might switch to aluminum again on the next batch.

 

The extractor is still in experimental phase. There isn't a lot of space to go on the creative side, so I'll probably stick with a steel or aluminum replaceable extractor.

 

The trigger is something special. The M1014 receiver is a lot longer than the M1100 receiver. As I didn't want to cheat any dimensions (like the Yuji Gun Works M1014; no bashing intended), the only way I found to do this was by making a tigger that "sits back" a bit. I'm not sure what this will mean as far as tigger feel goes, but that's something non-existing on the M1100-series anyway.