Airsoft Turning to Paintball

[Agent Hunk]

There's both.

[JDK95]

Can people please stop ****ting on people who don't necessarily want to play full on milsim?

 

I am one of those people. I have no interest in buying loadouts costing multiple hundreds of dollars, spending most of the day trekking around, and have extremely basic gun limits. I'd rather be in a game with a few objectives, but mostly shooting people, and reasonable FPS limits. RPS, sure. As high as you want. I don't care about realism - I want to push my guns farther and see how much RPS or RPS and FPS I can go for, I want to be involved in intense firefights or great ambushes, and I could really care less about the scenario. Does this make me a worse person or airsofter?

 

No, I don't think so.

[ThumpMaster6]

Balls. My site does exactly that, and it's a large woodland area that may not run hardcore milsim rules, but it's nothing like speedball. How you can suggest that the method by which a game is started entirely defines the style of said game is beyond me.

Didn't imply it did, bud!...I'm only suggesting that the STYLE of play at a venue is often dictated by the way in which an organizer and field operator wants to run it. If paintball/speedball is all those guys know, a horn sounding is the call-to-charge head on from opposite ends of a field....just as it would be inside an arena/nets with big bouncy balls for cover. (yea, have at it mates...I'm sure y'all will!)

 

I think some solid COMMUNICATION is all that can help shape your local field...step up, arrange to host or ref some games...."try-on" what works for your gang...and then play. OR, start your own field, and dictate YOUR game, its the only two options you have.

 

THUMPS....OVER

[Blazer]

 

 

My eyes they bleed...

 

All that is unholy, I will never be able to erase this image from my mind...

[ThumpMaster6]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0CnFvyGjlY

 

I'm not gonna down my brothers in the P.I...Wait, wait, I'ma let you finish.... but this game (from which the photo came) makes some of the USA Paintsoft Rodeos look like a full-on MilSim adventure!

They are STACKING UP THE TEAMS at Entrance Gates? Look at the nets...some safety in that 'hood...

Wowser, I actually want to go Pan Pacific to see this...I think I know someone who just DID that (Hint, Victor....) and this is crazy-lite!

 

Thumpy...Feast on that....OVER

[renegadecow]

If a picture alone is worth a thousand words, I imagine that vid is enough for a lifetime of expletives. I understand how some people are saying let people play the way they want, but look at them! A line has to be drawn somewhere so let it be this. I've long accepted Hwagans explanation in that they aren't airsofters, but paintballers without markers. Heck, you know what, they're probably even worse.

[TheFull9]

Didn't imply it did, bud!...I'm only suggesting that the STYLE of play at a venue is often dictated by the way in which an organizer and field operator wants to run it. If paintball/speedball is all those guys know, a horn sounding is the call-to-charge head on from opposite ends of a field....just as it would be inside an arena/nets with big bouncy balls for cover. (yea, have at it mates...I'm sure y'all will!)

 

I think some solid COMMUNICATION is all that can help shape your local field...step up, arrange to host or ref some games...."try-on" what works for your gang...and then play. OR, start your own field, and dictate YOUR game, its the only two options you have.

Realistically though, what's the difference between a marshal shouting 'go' or whatever and blowing a whistle (which is what my site usually does)? When we walk to a start-point from the safe zone a no-firing rule is in effect, you have to somehow pass the word to all players at once when that rule no longer applies and the game may begin. The overall percentage of airsoft skirmishers out there that bring radios in to a game is pretty small, so some form of loud call/horn blast etc is the only way of doing it; and it doesn't necessarily have to mean a stereotypical paintball game charge when you all set off sprinting soon as the signal goes out. Sometimes that might happen because on the odd occasion both teams will be fighting over the same point/objective, so both want to get as close to said objective as possible before they come in to the range of the oppositions AEGs. That's not the norm however, and end of the day when you've got 50+ players aside you need a simple method of mass communication.

[MuldR]

I don't understand why aren't they playing paintball instead of this thing (I don't want to call this to airsoft).

[3vi1-D4n]

Shouting to players as a DS during a game is very unprofessional. It shows that one does not have good control over him/herself, the game or the players.

 

If there is a critical issue, then pull people over to speak with them or put them off the field, or stop the game (whistle) to highlight the critical safety aspect of it. In starting and stopping games, shouting or whistle is fine but its better than both sides have at least one guy with radios (either DS or a player) to inform the teams game has started or stopped.

 

If you are shouting, a game on/off signal that gets shouted and passed down by players who heard it, is a good thing, as it shows awareness and has a good impact on players being aware of each other.

 

 

However, the discussion here is really, what IS airsoft, paintsoft and milsim. It seems most people see airsoft, being between paintsoft and true milsim, but depends on locale.

 

 

I had an interesting discussion with some MMORPGers (they are currently an airsoft retailer) about the state of airsoft in my area. From the amount of planning and hogwash for one of their ambushes in their MMO worlds, it seems they are more "milsim" than most airsofters. It is fairly entertaining that they understand what its like to take them days to plan, do battle prep and recce the area, for 3 days in wait for the ambush to spring (with archers, magic swords and potions).

 

Pictures like the ones above as do paintsoft/meatgrinder games, makes my head hang in shame as an airsofter.

[sniperelite7]

So what does that make me if I want to enjoy a little force on force where I get to stack my personal skill against someone else and test just how cunning or accurate my shots are? I love scenario games but c'mon. That scenario, or mil-sim for that matter is not what makes airsoft and i would be cautious about elitism. Yeah it looks like paintball, so instead of criticizing them for it. Maybe try to start a movement to bring squad work into it. That would be fun, an actual event with an audience. Televised. Showing force on force squad combat in a cqb arena like that. Sure would push airsoft more into the mainstream.

 

Besides that match int he video seemed to have an objective to it and it looked like a bunch of fun. Though I would personally prefer a much more wider space to play in :-/Something small like that and it would start to feel like I was playing cod

[3vi1-D4n]

That is why "Airsoft" is not the best definition at all.

[Squab27]

They each have there respectable places. Hell I dont mind my gun having a decent RoF to it for when I need to take it out of semi, but when I switch it to full I want to put as many rounds down range as I can.

[Furey]

Meh, it think if anything UK airsoft is becoming much less paintball-y in recent years. Infact paitball is also becoming less speedball and more tactical too. I strongly suspect both trnds are global. The bottle in the mag is just appaling though as is the site. I notice lots of US sites on youtube which are just pallets in fields too, that sucks the big one, I'm sure those US site owners can manage the standard of sites we have in the UK if they ask around.

[LordElpus]

My eyes they bleed...

 

All that is unholy, I will never be able to erase this image from my mind...

 

It could have been worse, it could have been a 6000rnd Blaster bottle on a MP5K

[Rvrstyxx]

If a picture alone is worth a thousand words, I imagine that vid is enough for a lifetime of expletives.

 

Eloquently put.

[mcnuggets]

I agree with Marlowe. Airsoft is about shooting each other with 6mm BB's first and foremost. Milsim should be seen as a subclass (albeit a very large subclass) of airsoft. If game organizers want a milsim oriented game they should specify rules that exclude paintsofting such as limiting the number of BB's carried on the field or what type of clothing can be worn. Aside from that I see no problem with paintsofting. If anything it can be beneficial to the airsoft community. It brings down the cost of equipment required to play making it accessible to more people. No expensive webbing, helmets, holsters, sidearms, etc. required. Just a high-cap and a water bottle.

[Azubi]

You can't really slag off the site. Sometimes you have to play with what you can get and sites dictate how a game can be played to a certain extent.

 

I've been thinking about it over the weekend whilst I was playing a game in Sharjah. For me I am travelling from Saudi Arabia to the United Arab Emirates to one of the very few sites available legally. I travel there because I want to play and it offers my best chance to get a few games in whilst I am not on leave.

 

At Sharjah, we play at the shooting club on what is basically a paintball field. It's not a bad one to be fair, with light aircraft and plenty of varied terrain such as burnt out landys and towers and barricades, but it is small. Alot smaller to what I am used to and whilst earlier in this thread I was bemoaning the style of play they have there and how it just wasn't what I have come to expect from an airsoft game due to playing in the UK, I can't help but feel I have been somewhat spoilt by years of playing in the UK and the fantastic sites we have.

 

I'm a bit of a curiosity when I turn up because being a 6 foot fair haired, pale skinned Brit airsofter I do tend to stand out amongst all the Filipinos that make up the vast majority of the UFAC-GAF. It isn't so bad though, I myself play on a team with arabs from all over the Middle East and North Africa and also another British guy who now all live in the UAE but the curiosity lies in the fact that I am the only one who has played outside of the UAE on my team. I stand out and I always get people coming over and talking to me about UK airsoft games and sites they have seen on YouTube or forums. It seems as if UK airsoft sites and games are the pinnacle. The excitement and awe I hear in people's voices when they talk about UK airsoft makes me realise that they do want something more than the run and gun style of play that the field dictates.

 

I also realised that when they have had access to other sites in the UAE, they have made good use of them for the very short time they had them. Things over there get demo'd very quickly or land owners request alot of money for use that is expensive for me, never mind Filipinos who get paid a lot less than me.

 

I know this is all focusing on the site and not the kit choice of the person in the OP photo but there has been alot of post targetting the site too and I can't help but feel you can sometimes only play on what you have access to.

[LordElpus]

a very good point

[Voodoo1]

For me I am travelling from Saudi Arabia to the United Arab Emirates to one of the very few sites available legally.

 

Should totally set up an F&O Abu-Zhabi site - been far too long since I've had real sunshine...

[renegadecow]

At least here, problem with game sites is they charge too little. Average weekend skirmishes go $2.50 a day with larger sites up to $4. Weekend-long bivouacs which don't come as often charge somewhere along $10-20. There are very few games that charge over $100 and are the milsim type complete with rubber craft insertion and island hopping. That said, most sites only charge for the basic upkeep of the place and don't really generate a large enough income to keep away from land development. Some gem sites (hotels, hospitals, warehouses) do pop up, but don't last long. So with what little people have to play with, what irks me is how they have to ruin it all by making things all the less "realistic". Airsoft is (to me) primarily about the gun. Be it real steel replica or sci-fi, you're still trying to emulate what is essentially a gun. You can dress up in whatever attire you want (I go in miami vice hawaiian shirts) and still try to be something that's not necessarily military oriented, but just don't go sticking a bottle on your gun so you could spray more bb's. That's what extra magazines are for. Or if you have a calico liberty, that's pretty much a bottle on a gun.

[danielsilva]

My problem with this type of games are not about the users starting to run around with bottles on their hi-caps, equipped with bright jerseys and pink crocs, to each his own but because i see this, specially on games like those in the video, as a big step towards "airsoft tournaments" and a general rise of a "too much competition" virus on our sport.

 

Before i started to play airsoft i was a long time player of paintball, more than 10 years being a painter ( started playing when i was 14 ) and the moment tournaments began to be more common and players started to treat the competition more important than the game itself is when i saw paintball here go down the drain.

 

Paintball itself began to be more popular, more players were starting to play but the general quality of the players and the game itself got to a point where i just couldn't play anymore. Now the game itself wasn't important but winning is what mattered, "cheating" began to be much more common and the game although more appealing for the casual players, got much more worse for those you played it regularly. And because of that although we did see a big spike on new players in the beginning, after the novelty worn out the numbers of active players began to drop consistently.

 

This isn't much of a problem around here because we don't have to play on specific playing grounds/sites like in the US and/or Uk players have to, and as such we can simply choose which players we play with and thus milsimers can choose to play only with milsimers and paintsofters can choose to play with paintsofters, but in countries like the US/UK where you unfortunately can't really choose with who you play with, i can see this as a potential problem.

[Azubi]

but in countries like the US/UK where you unfortunately can't really choose with who you play with, i can see this as a potential problem.

 

 

Oh I dunno mate. I can't really speak for the US but in the UK there are so many sites these days and we are such a small island that if you have a car, you can go to any site you like. Granted it may be trial and error for a while but eventually you will find a site where everyone is on the same sort of wavelength to you. There is a really close site to me when I am in the UK that I will never go to again simply because of how they encourage their regulars to play. Meanwhile, I'll happily drive 100-200 miles on a Saturday/Sunday morning to play at sites I do enjoy the player and site owner mentality.

 

Basically what I am saying is that with the sites we do have in the UK, we also have a choice*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*As long as you have a car or are willing to arrange a lift or sort out public transport links and can be bothered to go the distance. My regular site for a couple of years was a 3 hour each way journey into deepest darkest Nottinghamshire.

[Noveske]

Hey Sorry to be a bit off topic, but what kind of uniform is that? Is that custom? Cause I'm liking it.

[Furey]

Too bloody true Azubi, my favourite site at the moment is a fairly bland woodland by current standards, but the people who run it and play there are great guys so I always have a really enjoyable day.

 

I think the increasing danger is not airsoft becoming less simulation, but infact airsoft becoming more pretentious and elitist. Virtualy all the 'milsim' events I've been to have been completely normal games of airsoft, the only difference was that a slightly larger number of the players had snotty attitudes. Unnecessary expensive kit and some pseudo-millitary nonsense you've gleaned from watching hollywood movies and call of duty does not make for a good game and frankly doesn't make it any closer to the real thing either!

 

I'd love to see something aproximating a military simulation (i'm sure it exists somewhere in the country) but my point is that it doesn't make the participants better than anyone else so they shouldn't get too far up their own chuffs about it

[LordElpus]

Oh I dunno mate. I can't really speak for the US but in the UK there are so many sites these days and we are such a small island that if you have a car, you can go to any site you like. Granted it may be trial and error for a while but eventually you will find a site where everyone is on the same sort of wavelength to you. There is a really close site to me when I am in the UK that I will never go to again simply because of how they encourage their regulars to play. Meanwhile, I'll happily drive 100-200 miles on a Saturday/Sunday morning to play at sites I do enjoy the player and site owner mentality.

 

Basically what I am saying is that with the sites we do have in the UK, we also have a choice*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*As long as you have a car or are willing to arrange a lift or sort out public transport links and can be bothered to go the distance. My regular site for a couple of years was a 3 hour each way journey into deepest darkest Nottinghamshire.

 

Agreed. If you are lucky enough to live in the Midlands you have so many sites available to you with a 2 hour drive (legal speeds of course )