Replica guns to be banned [sales/import]

[oikoik]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,2763,1500142,00.html

 

The government is to announce this week that it will press ahead with a ban on the manufacture, import and sale of "realistic" replica and imitation guns

 

The ban will not be as wide-ranging as gun control campaigners had been pressing for but it will be accompanied by a measure making it illegal for anybody under the age of 18 to buy any kind of imitation or replica firearm.

 

The violent crime reduction bill, to be published on Wednesday, will also include an aggravated offence of using children or otherwise innocent parties to hide or carry guns or knives.

 

Ministers appeared to rule out a ban on imitation weapons a year ago because of the difficulty of coming up with a precise legal definition of a replica. But senior civil servants have managed to circumvent the problem to ensure that the crackdown does not include toy guns and water pistols in a wholesale blanket ban.

 

The bill will make clear that the ban on the sale of replicas only covers imitation guns that "any reasonable person could mistake for a firearm".

 

The ban will also be crafted to ensure it applies to sales over the internet and by mail order.

 

 

Ministers are particularly worried about BB or ball-bearing guns that fire plastic pellets.

 

It is expected that this week's legislation will increase the sentences for carrying replica guns and introduce tougher standards on manufacturers to ensure that replica weapons cannot be converted to fire live ammunition. The bill will also raise the age limit for buying knives to 18 and tighten the law on air guns.

 

 

The ban will not be as wide-ranging as gun control campaigners had been pressing for but it will be accompanied by a measure making it illegal for anybody under the age of 18 to buy any kind of imitation or replica firearm.

 

this is where it gets me:

a ban on the sales an import of guns in the uk means just that.

age restrictions dont come into it if its banned entirely anyway, surely?

 

while clarification is required before we go 'oh noes..', it is both disturbing and annoying to see this news..

 

not to mention retailers have a problem on their hands..

 

and if the ban is true, then while ownership is still legal now, they can tighten the noose on that one at any time..

[sp00n]

Its good to be in the US at times like this.

[R22Master]

As you pointed out Oik, this article has a few contradictions in it.

 

Probably best to wait for more conclusive journalism before we all start hoo-ing and har-ing about it, eh

 

Cheers for the heads-up though

[Ghost_Rider]

Anyone see the massive contradiction here?

 

If they were *banning* sale and import outright, they wouldn't *need* an age restriction.

 

Typical guadian. Nice article, horrendously worded.

[oikoik]

america needs trades taken off and the barrels painted red before they can be imported into the us.

 

the uk now needs them to be sprayed pink with water bottles added onto them before they can be imported..

[DarkLite]

But senior civil servants have managed to circumvent the problem to ensure that the crackdown does not include toy guns and water pistols in a wholesale blanket ban

 

WEll, we're fine then.

[oikoik]

i thought airsoft wasnt considered a toy.

Ministers are particularly worried about BB or ball-bearing guns that fire plastic pellets.

they are obviously aware of us..

[twin_cam]

I think this really highlights the need to vote and make sure your vote counts.If we don't communicate with our elected officials, they will do whatever they please. First and foremost, they are public servants, which means they serve you and me. You need to make it known to the appropriate politicians that you don't agree with the direction legislation is taking, and that if they don't support what you as a constituent desire, then you won't be voting for them again.

 

What every politician wants is another term in office. Your leverage as a voter is threatening to place your vote elsewhere. There's safey in numbers, ladies and gents and on matters like this, we need to show them that there are enough of us to make a dent in the vote count.

 

Laws are meant to protect the public, not harass, and this constitutes harassment of law abiding airsofters.

[Shin_Kudo]

Wait a second, all I see here is a ban stopping minors from buying airsoft guns and kinves. That's exactly how it is in the US, and it's never been a problem.

[Magsz]

Shin, the wording is contradictory.

 

The article opens by discussing a ban on IMPORTING replica firearms and then it goes on to discuss how it will be illegal for minors to PURCHASE said illegally imported weapons...

 

Its awfully confusing and like r22 said, we really need to wait until its reworded and or elaborated upon.

[Hissing_Sid]

Its awfully confusing and like r22 said, we really need to wait until its reworded and or elaborated upon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pffft!

 

What you mean is that it's all we can do.

 

What we NEED to do is travel back in time 5 years, pull our communal head out of our communal *albatross* and set up some kind of official body who could represent us at times like this.

 

I'm sick of saying it though. People are going to keep on taking the "We'll have to wait and see" stance right up until the point where they just, quite simply, make it illegal to own any gun which they descibe as "any reasonable person could mistake for a firearm."

If that becomes a definition, in law, then I'd say that the next step will be a complete ban on any such items.

 

It was suggested earlier that orange tips DO ensure that an airsoft gun can't be described as an accurate replica. I'd say that, using the above definition, this is no longer a valid argument. A CA M15 with an orange tip could still be mistaken for a real firearm.

 

I bet the paintball community is laughing it's *albatross* off, since that definition would never apply to them in a million years.

 

[edit]

While I'm at it, I don't see any of the contradictions you guys are crowing about.

 

It says that it will become illegal to build, import or sell any REALISTIC replica gun.

 

It then goes on to say that it'll be illegal for a minor to buy ANY kind of replica gun.

 

No contradiction there IMO. It's saying that stuff like AEGs will be banned for sure and that those dodgy springers (pump action MP5s and Thompsons etc) will be illegal for sale to minors.

 

Like I say, no contradiction.

 

The only real hope is that guns with power of 1J or lower CAN actually be recognised in law as toys. Only problem there is that even if they ARE toys they are still also replica guns.

 

Maybe it's time to get myself a Pulse Rifle.

[Shard]

Either that or time to plan that way one trip to HK

[Deadlock]

"Don't wait until the 11th hour".... we are already there mate.

 

The only way we are going to solve this is to show government that we are responsible and can "police" ourselves.

 

If it is good press we need then ALL airsoft sites need to get behind this ASAP and contact local media, MP's etc and invite them to games to show the outside world we are responsible and professional.

 

The people who are making money from this sport should be the ones who champion this. They have already started with a site association so they are half way there already.

 

If we end up not allowing under 18's to play or purchase equipment then so be it (sorry kids but you will be 18 one day). As has been said if we don't act then we are in the *beep* BIG.

 

As I have posted before it happened with real firearms and it will happen again.

 

So a response from the "money making" side of the community would be a start.

Lets see some action this time and not just talk. As for the remark on the paper testing the water, If they want a response then lets give them one.

 

Wether its airsoft or paintball we need to come together and fight our case.

 

Deadlock

 

As a footnote to this. The Guardian seem to have it in for all "air weapons" so shouldn't someone speak to them and especially to the writers of these BS articles. They seem to mix alot of info form different areas of different types of guns and "scaremonger" the population. As tragic as those shootings were in the other article I'm sure they were propper airpistols and not as they make out airsoft rifles

[Reload]

Anecdotal evidence:

 

Had a PFC Ingram up for sale for the last few months and very little interest. In the last few weeks however I've had around 20 offers for the (now sold) gun. People seem to be stocking up whilst they still can.

[McMadkat]

Hmm they wont stop me. If I want a GBB I will get a GBB. The plod reckon there is 700,000 airguns in Scotland, so it is a fair bet to say that there must be at least 500,000 airsoft guns in the UK. 2nd sales will still carry on as normal.

 

McM

[doc_newstead]

I would mention this during my visit to A2 today, but I fear that all I'll hear is "I wouldn't worry about it".

 

I only paid attention to this thread because oik posted it; if somebody with their finger on the collective-airsoft-pulse like him can get worried about it, then something is amiss. I don't like the sound of that article at all, and I want to go in A2 today and hear the bloke ask me, "Will you write a letter to your MP for us?". Surely the airsoft businesses in the UK have to raised an eyebrow at least?

[snowman]

I suppose retailers will react by moving into paintball, airgun sales or just giving up, if such a ban becomes a reality.

 

The REALLY interesting bit is "any reasonable person could mistake for a firearm". This smacks of impossible law to enforce and would require test cases to clarify, all very expensive and, possibly, embarassing for the government.

 

Surely a piece of wood COULD be mistaken by 'any reasonble person' under pressure. How clear a look would the 'reasonable person' be expected to get? At 10 yards can YOU tell the difference between a kids toy and airsoft (I've seen rubber dart firing guns that are EXACT replicas, proportion wise, of 1911s)?

 

There's a gathering momentum obsessed with banning anything 'gun' and the forces behind it are not interested in ANYTHING that might compromise it.

 

On the other hand, the reality might prove quite different to a Grauniad editoral piece.

 

Cheers.

 

PS LOTS of sense here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/news/stories/200301/24/vicar.shtml

[McMadkat]

Those who watched the BBC doc about airguns in Scotland will know that the police are not keen on trying to ban airweapons (which is what airsoft is). I have made L85 replicas out of wood and copper tubes in my garden shed when I was a kid, they looked real enough yet were only wood and tube, hardly able to 'be converted to fire live ammo'.

 

Gaaa, I give up. Who would ever know if I owned a gun or not? How would they enforce it? Anyway, this sounds like a good excuse to get another gun whilst the going is good......

 

McM

[Hissing_Sid]

The REALLY interesting bit is "any reasonable person could mistake for a firearm". This smacks of impossible law to enforce and would require test cases to clarify, all very expensive and, possibly, embarassing for the government.http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/news/stories/200301/24/vicar.shtml[/url]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed it is.

 

TBH, I doubt that definition will ever be used in "real time". The only way it will be used is when somebody gets nicked for owning a replica gun and a jury will have to decide if the gun is one that "any reasonable person could mistake for a firearm".

 

The LAST people I'd trust to speak up for our interests are the retailers, though I hate to say it.

They are a group who already know each other and have links. They have had YEARS to actually attempt to define what is legal and what isn't.

To digress slightly, the only person who ever made steps in that direction before was DeeDee from A51 and look how that ended up.

Anyway, retailers have a vested interest in stuff not being banned.

If a retailer takes a MOSCART to a police lab and asks them if it's legal or not and they get told it's NOT then they immediately lose all potential future sales from that item. It's better for them to carry on as they are and only stop selling when they're forced to.

 

It's almost as bad with site owners. Most people who own the sort of land where airsoft is played could quite easily convert to paintball or even quad-biking etc.

Note that I'm talking about the site OWNER. The site OPERATOR, the guy who has the lease for the land, might be in big trouble but, again, they are probably just hopingto keep going as long as possible without doing anything to hasten the end of their money-making idea.

 

It was exactly the same with firearms. The dealers and ranges weren't interested in protecting our rights. They just sold as much stuff as they could and/or switched to alternative disciplines when a ban was enforced.

 

The only people we can rely on to defend our hobby is US and people like us. Paintball is off the hook with that definition but people who play lasertag and re-enactors would still take as much heat as we do. With those sectors of the community added together I bet you'd be looking at more than 10,000 people in the UK.

When I played lasertag it seemed that there were quite a few people who had the right "jobsworth" (unfair description, but you understand what I mean) mentality to actually bother to start clubs, collect subscriptions, issue ID badges, contact sites and arrange discounts. That, IMO, is the sort of person we need to head-up an airsoft players association.

 

Seriously, I mean, as an example, has anybody considered inviting a member of the local press to AG05?

I know that's only a drop in the ocean but it's the sort of thing that needs doing.

 

What I mean is that everybody who plays knows there are some sites where you will ALWAYS have a good game and there are other sites where it's unpredictable.

For example, I wouldn't hesitate to invite a journalist to Annan. I WOULD be worried to invite one to Firefight in Glasgow though, purely because a couple of chav walk-ons could give totally the wrong impression.

The reason I've always felt that we need some kind of organisation is so that the people who are "in the know" about the local scene can network and the result would be that the side of airsoft presented to the public would always be its best side.

[McMadkat]

sorry to hijack der thread, but is Annan noob friendly? I am hoping to join them for a game on Oct 1st and every month threrafter funds depending.

 

Cheers,

 

McM

[Hissing_Sid]

sorry to hijack der thread, but is Annan noob friendly?  I am hoping to join them for a game on Oct 1st and every month threrafter funds depending.

 

Cheers,

 

McM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TBH, I doubt anybody would even notice you're a newb. Half the people who play are just random mates of the regulars. Everybody just gets treated as though they're somebody's mate.

[McMadkat]

Ahh good! I am hoping to bring along my two cousins (stars from the films) and meet up with TMC, so that makes 4 of us!

 

Cheers Sid,

 

McM

[gazchap]

Inviting a journo to AG05 would probably be a fairly good idea as we know that everyone attending is going to be a responsible airsofter.

 

I would suggest a national journo as well as a local journo if possible.

[Argo]

So the few grand of equipment I've bought is going to be scrap soon?

 

What complete ######.

[Reload]

Well, if it does happen against any of our best efforts then it sucks and we'll all just have to live with it. However, it'll only be a few years before none of you will care a jot for old fashioned and rubbish things like airsoft anyway.

 

Why?

 

Proper and fully immersive Virtual Reality. Something to look forward to, trust.