Caustic Echo Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Is what was said in the past about PTS is true, 'just another Cybergun' but... didn't A&K 'have' to pay for the rights to produce these ? have they teamed up with Cybergun, leaving PTS out of the mix all together ? or are PTS the distributor for A&Ks Masada ? That's one hell of a price hike for a chinese AEG, no one in their right mind will buy one, hopefully ala the Thompson sensible priced ones will be available in the UK, our retailers still tell Cybergun to get f***ed, yet to here of any legal action being filed here ? It still peaves me PTS couldn't make a Masada proper and not the frankenstein gun they produced umm....have you done any research? lets start from the beginning. Remember years ago when the ACR was first prototyped? A&K made illegal versions based off pictures that ended up being about 7/8th real size the acr got sold around quite a bit then was produced by MAGPUL as the MASADA Magpul thought that airsoft had a huge market and then created PTS (personal training system) and started selling lower quality versions of their products for airsoft use. they got word of A&K selling ACR's and litterly sued them out of business. in the settlement agreement that allowed A&K to stay in business they were allowed to make to make the MASADA Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Have you donde your research? Magpul PTS is not part or owned by Magpul Dinamics, its just an Asian Brand which pays for the rights to use the name and clone Magpul stuff for airsoft market... Link to post Share on other sites
danielsilva Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Have you donde your research? Magpul PTS is not part or owned by Magpul Dinamics, its just an Asian Brand which pays for the rights to use the name and clone Magpul stuff for airsoft market... Either owned or not by Magpul they still must have very close ties with them since they're actively featured on the main website and most likely have the "rights" of the Magpul brand for airsoft purposes. Link to post Share on other sites
Caustic Echo Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 http://www.magpul.com/brandfamily Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteHawksan Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 It's all to do with Tax evasion and legal rights issues, they are not the same company but they might as well be. A good example would be I once consulted to a law firm, they had a sister finance firm. They shared the same building, some of the same staff etc etc. But legally they were 2 seperate entities, this was for a number of financial and legal reasons. Link to post Share on other sites
Aitch Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 HMMMMMMM doing research, well A&K never made an ACR, they made a Masada, now if it is out of scale to the tune PTS stated back then, how can this one be the real sized Masada ? (if it is the A&K) unless their info back then was BS ? now PTS, they don't make an ACR either, they make an abortion hybrid of the two seeing Magpul don't own the rights to the Bushmaster/Remington ACR, none of which is relevant to this thread unless it is confirmed the Masada is A&K and it is accurate enough to be deemed a Masada when a year ago it was all different dimensions and not worthy of the name until licensed, has someone been commissioned to make them for CG/PTS new moulds etc ? doubt it Link to post Share on other sites
cazboab Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 umm....have you done any research? lets start from the beginning. Remember years ago when the ACR was first prototyped? It wasn't prototyped as ACR, it was renamed ACR once remingtonBushmaster got their grubby little mitts on it.A&K made illegal versions based off pictures that ended up being about 7/8th real sizethe acr got sold around quite a bit then was produced by MAGPUL as the MASADA No it was designed by magpul as the masada sold around a bit then produced by Remington and Bushmaster as the acr, whereupon they cheaped out on certain stages and started claiming the rifle was only meant for .223 and feeding it 5.56 was what caused the problems(despite every singly barrel being stamped 5.56). Magpul thought that airsoft had a huge market and then created PTS (personal training system) and started selling lower quality versions of their products for airsoft use. I've never actually heard anyone from magpul claim this, quite the opposite, they've stated on several occasions that PTS is their official partner for airsoft. Putting them on the website as part of the "brand family" is just a marketing trick. Regardless of all that, the PTS ACR still isn't the production model, since the front sight on the pts is part of the receiver not integrated to the hand guard or omitted entirely in favour of an mbus. Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I've never actually heard anyone from magpul claim this, quite the opposite, they've stated on several occasions that PTS is their official partner for airsoft. Putting them on the website as part of the "brand family" is just a marketing trick. Thanks, Couldnt say better Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 The A&K has this lettering: MAGPUL MILITARY INDUSTRIES ERIE CO USA + hologram sticker As far as I can make out from the photos on the RW site, the "Cybergun" has identical lettering and sticker. I don't know why RW is calling it this: Cybergun Masada by Magpul PTS (Black / Folding Stock / Licensed) The PTS part seems to be added entirely (and misleadingly) by RW in the heading. Also of course, no mention of A&K. The "real" Masada by Magpul PTS doesn't have any white lettering at all. Everything suggests that this an A&K version, purveyed by Cybergun. But is the barrel longer than on the regular PTS model? Link to post Share on other sites
P.S.I. Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Anyone who doubts this is the A&K...Simply look at the photo of the hop-up, it's the single most telling photo of them all. It is quite clearly the A&K version. Link to post Share on other sites
Vila Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Something tells me that Cybergun is trying to pull a fast one, They bought A&K made Masada's and either got a licenses from PTS for a gun that already had one or just bought them without actually getting a license and jacked up the price for their profit. If it's the latter, I hope PTS sues the pants off of them for some ironic justice. Link to post Share on other sites
Solid Snake.pt Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Just noticed this over at RW, thought it had to be a joke of some sort, figured other people had to have noticed it by now. Pretty much utterly insane pricing. The A&K version is available in Europe for about ~270€ new, and I wouldn't touch it at that pricing -- far too high. I understand that A&K had to stop production for a while, licencing issues and Chinese legal blockages and what not, fine, but it's still too high. Then I saw this. If it really is licensed by Cybergun, I really think they don't realize exactly that the A&K version is not the one selling for 500 euros or so. Either that or, as people said, they're trying to make a quick buck out of some poor fool who doesn't bother to do his homework. Link to post Share on other sites
C.J.Fox Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I always enjoy reading about Cybergun's latest foray in the airsoft market. I'm not sure if they are entirely clueless, devious or simple trolls. Regardless, I'm pretty sure they must live under a bridge somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites
StarMonkee Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I've emailed Redwolf to see what the crack is with this A&K Masada and why it warrants such a high price tag. Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad91/KremelinFC/RedHeatCapitalism2.jpg I blame this. Last time I checked it was greed that caused this kind of thing, not capitalism alone, and last time I checked China has it's fair share of greedy business men/women who disregard the consumer so I wouldn't try and take the moral highground just yet That price is sheer madness though, I can't see why retailers willingly stock things like that, much like I can't see why retailers here stock Umarex USP magazines and sell them for £40 when you can get the same branded KWA and sell them for £25... Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I guess it's purely down to cyberscum's strong arm tactics. You want to keep stocking all these products? Then you have to order x of these overpriced products. Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I guess it's purely down to cyberscum's strong arm tactics. You want to keep stocking all these products? Then you have to order x of these overpriced products. I'm not really sure that idea would work, what else from Cybergun do Redwolf actually stock? They appear to get KWC guns and parts direct from KWC themselves and I don't recall actually seeing anything else on either the Redwolf website or the Redwolf UK trade price lists. EDIT : Quick search on Redwolf for 'Cybergun' brings up one result, I'm sure you can guess what that is Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I figured they could make it difficult as they hold the licence to various RS manufacturers. Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Cybergun givin' me bare jokes with dem prices and ting. That's just silly, i mean, even if the A&K is a decent gun, how are they expecting to sell a single one for that price? The fools. Link to post Share on other sites
StarMonkee Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 The A&K isn't that bad. You just need to deal with the shady hop unit and thats it really. Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I had one for a couple of weeks, to be honest i was damn impressed for the money. I'd buy one over the PTS given the choice, but definitely not for $638... Link to post Share on other sites
StarMonkee Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Yeah lol am still waiting to hear back from RW regarding the prices so I'll post what they say when they reply Link to post Share on other sites
tangloppen Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Why cant Cybergun and ASG just selfignite and burn till only ashes remain? Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Why cant Cybergun and ASG just selfignite and burn till only ashes remain? No easy scapes, they deserve more Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Let's pause for a moment and consider how misleading the caption is that RedWolf put on this gun. Above and beyond the obscenity of Cybergun's pricing strategy, when unsuspecting buyers see Mapgul PTS in the heading of the webpage, combined with the price, and no sign/mention of A&K, they're going to draw one--wrong--conclusion. Link to post Share on other sites
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