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First look at the H.K 3Px4 GBB

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Hey all!

 

I just got 18 PX4s for my Uni society! Below are some gun porn :D

 

A big shout-out and thanks to ACMGear for facilitating my purchase! :D Those guys at ACMGear have been helping me harass the PX4 factory for over 6 months ever since they started to go out of stock! That's what I call dedication people :P

 

And without further ado.....

 

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Note: The PX4 box comes with 2 mags is because I'm storing them that way for my University as a rental package for indoor skirmish games where we're renting them out for half the rental price of the AEGs (which suck and have horrible trigger response and accuracy I'd say) that the wargame sites rent out.

 

The silver serial number is what I wrote on the mags (and inside the guns in specific areas) to denote that they belong to the University :)

Edited by intinerious
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So lucky your uni allows for such a club...Americans flip *suitcase* upon the sight of a toy sword in a school -_-

 

Eh it's Hong Kong where either you airsoft, have a BIT of knowledge on springer pistols because you played with those as a kid or you only know about guns because of movies. I've had Student Union Executive Committee members asking me whether the police also use batteries in their guns when we were showing them what an AEG was with a TM MP5....go figure :P

 

We don't have a lot of members since before I got on as an exco for the society we had no money, no equipment, and the only thing that we can 'promote' about our society is that we will help members organise wargames for a society fee that is equal to a Starbucks Venti Frapp...which honestly its one of the most ###### things I've ever said to promote something :P

 

Now that we have the pistols we can actually promote SOMETHING for the society with 1/2 the rental fees for indoor wargames if they rent our equipment, plus no wargaming sites in HK will EVER rent out gas pistols; all of the sites I've seen for indoors (and outdoors) rent either Golden Eagle (JG) G36Cs, ACM AKs (probably CYMAs) or Galaxy MP5Ks (sometimes M4s but they add a premium on the rental prices for those....you'll probably wonder why as it's still an AEG, I think the premium comes from those who want to use a stupid M4 for an indoor wargame....).

 

Annnyway, I also developed an indoor wargame 'course' if you will, called "Shooting Experience Day" (remenants from what the old excos created, so everything down to that "shooting exp day" and our society name "weapons & tactics association" is really corny IMO...but to change the society name it'll take a lot of paperwork so we're stuck with that :() that's gonna be based on running static pistol drills that Travis Haley developed over at Haley Strategic (his shooting targets are free :D) and the Dozier + El Presidente Drills....hopefully with a structured 'course' it'll also attract more members.

 

I know I'm going wayyyy off topic but I'd just like to say that although HK is what you guys would call the airsoft capital of the world (some might disagree but that's what I've heard :P) our tech and general mechanical knowledge as a whole is no better than the newbies that come onto Arnies and ask "what am bestest gun LOLz!!!101011". It's atrocious to still see kids spending huge amounts of money on VFC guns with PDI 6.01 tightbores and shooting some crappy BB King or whatever 0.2g bbs and expecting their guns to hit torso-sized targets out to 30 meters. My friend who I've dragged into the world of airsoft 'tuning' can now manage 60m-80m shots with 0.3g KSCs (@ 1.5J), firefly normal flat nub + prommy purple bucking and prommy 6.03mm barrel (363mm) and people are amazed over his range and accuracy....we're getting R-Hops soon and we're aiming for torso sized groupings at 100+ meters.

 

Eh also not a lot of 'professional' techs in the retail stores even know what a MOSFET is...there's a small group of guys over here in HK that have FETs in their guns but it's not even a widely known piece of item in the local scene from what I understand.

 

 

Anyway, I'mma shut up about HK = idiots IMO and I'll update this thread again if we encounter any issues with the PX4s since we've got EIGHTEEEEEEEN of them :D

 

Note: I'm going to be greasing the outside of the hop up, the outer barrel 'rails' that allow the barrel to turn and the slide/frame rails with Tamiya Moly-Grease soon; plus clean the hop rubber and barrel with detergent (or soap) and warm water so that the accuracy of these things as well as the slide action be optimised to it's true potential.

 

I've already tested a just OOTB PX4 and it's chronoing at an average of 0.79J-0.81J with KSC 0.25g bbs using ET-1000 gas, at ~room temperature of 25 degree Celsius with whatever the hop up dial is set to from the factory.

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Now that we have the pistols we can actually promote SOMETHING for the society with 1/2 the rental fees for indoor wargames if they rent our equipment, plus no wargaming sites in HK will EVER rent out gas pistols; all of the sites I've seen for indoors (and outdoors) rent either Golden Eagle (JG) G36Cs, ACM AKs (probably CYMAs) or Galaxy MP5Ks (sometimes M4s but they add a premium on the rental prices for those....you'll probably wonder why as it's still an AEG, I think the premium comes from those who want to use a stupid M4 for an indoor wargame....).

 

 

Not true, PMC training rented out KJ's before it shut down. Which university is this? have you gotten a lemon in any of these?

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Not true, PMC training rented out KJ's before it shut down. Which university is this? have you gotten a lemon in any of these?

 

Hmm, I guess I'm wrong then :D Thanks for the info :P Well now that PMC shutted down (I heard that their staff were the worst in terms of attitude, never played there myself so what's your take on it?) I guess my previous statement still kinda stands? XD

 

It's HKU btw, and we haven't seen any lemons yet out of the 18 PX4s I got. I havent' fired bbs though them yet (though I've tested the decocker, slide catch and dry fired all the guns) but once I get the hop rubber and barrels clean I'll be testing them with bbs plus zeroing the guns for 10 meters (or maybe more, depending on the average engagement far distances for indoor games in HK). The guns should shoot consistently since with TM's design there's not much to go wrong. :P

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Hmm, I guess I'm wrong then :D Thanks for the info :P Well now that PMC shutted down (I heard that their staff were the worst in terms of attitude, never played there myself so what's your take on it?) I guess my previous statement still kinda stands? XD

 

It's HKU btw, and we haven't seen any lemons yet out of the 18 PX4s I got. I havent' fired bbs though them yet (though I've tested the decocker, slide catch and dry fired all the guns) but once I get the hop rubber and barrels clean I'll be testing them with bbs plus zeroing the guns for 10 meters (or maybe more, depending on the average engagement far distances for indoor games in HK). The guns should shoot consistently since with TM's design there's not much to go wrong. :P

 

good to see that they've been keeping up with QC. naw the PMC staff we're pretty good, never had a problem with them

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good to see that they've been keeping up with QC. naw the PMC staff we're pretty good, never had a problem with them

 

Hmm I see with the PMC issues :P Oh well, never been there myself (and never will since they've shut down) so no comments on my part :P

 

As far as I know the HK3P stuff have very very good QC for their prices. I haven't read any MAJOR problems with the gun other than AsianDraggon's barrel breaking (but only his) and I think mags leaking slightly, but the problem can be fixed similar to WE mags, just keep them slightly gassed up.

 

Got a HK3P Glock 17 too; also very good construction (though I'd say the feel of the HK3P PX4 is better because of it's heft and weight distribution) but it's pricier than the PX4 :P I'll do a review later when I have time but for now all I can say is even the HK3P (and WE and Socom Gear since they appear to be the same other than the trades and the frame design with the SG) Glock is damn good for the price...the Glock shoots very well, comparable to a stock TM pistol I would say (never handled a TM Glock myself but I'd draw conclusions with my experience with the TM MEU 1911).

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Did you happen to get the one with the Gen4 frame?

 

Nope! The old Gen3 :P Actually I want to dispute JK Army's pictures.....you see, the HK3P stuff seem to be distributed by Armed Forces here in HK, which are the sole distributor for WE (which makes sense since the WE and HK3P stuff seem very similar now, at least for the Glock). I went by Armed Forces today and there's no sign of any Gen4 frames...which is weird as Armed Forces wouldn't hold stock back...nor would any retailer honestly. Any ideas whether anyone's bought the Gen4 G18C outside HK and have the package being shipped to them as we speak?

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I have a possible explanation for the issue, mentioned previously, of a metal shard that comes off the slide after a few mags of shooting.

 

I noticed that the outer barel has two areas with denting from what seems to be abnormal wear. One is on the square part of the outer barel, to the left of the imprinted "9 para". This one is significant. The other is on the back end of the outer barel, where it can contact the rear of the open chamber on the slide.

 

It seems that the "9 para" denting is from the metal hitting a stop on the inside of the slide when it kicks back (on blowback).

 

I figure that the outer barel metal is not strong enough to sustain the impact, and dents until the metal accumulates and can handle the stress. This results in the rest of the outer barel moving backwards 1-2 mm more than it should. This causes an impact on the shard of metal on the slide, breaking it off. I think the purpose of this metal frangment is to stop BBs from jamming in the slide. I get many jams, and they are all in this location.

 

The other result of the 1-2mm of extra backwards play is that the rear end of the outer barel hits the rear of the open chamber, causing denting there as well.

 

Also, this explains the 1-2mm of back and forth movement that has been mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

Does this make sence to anyone else? Sorry about the confusing description, but I don't know the names of all the parts.

 

Could I avoid this by getting a new slide, or gun, and change the outer barel to one with stronger metal, to avoid the denting, and hence the rest of the problems? Any idea if I could find a stronger outer barel?

 

Thanks,

 

Fed

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I have a possible explanation for the issue, mentioned previously, of a metal shard that comes off the slide after a few mags of shooting.

 

I noticed that the outer barel has two areas with denting from what seems to be abnormal wear. One is on the square part of the outer barel, to the left of the imprinted "9 para". This one is significant. The other is on the back end of the outer barel, where it can contact the rear of the open chamber on the slide.

 

It seems that the "9 para" denting is from the metal hitting a stop on the inside of the slide when it kicks back (on blowback).

 

I figure that the outer barel metal is not strong enough to sustain the impact, and dents until the metal accumulates and can handle the stress. This results in the rest of the outer barel moving backwards 1-2 mm more than it should. This causes an impact on the shard of metal on the slide, breaking it off. I think the purpose of this metal frangment is to stop BBs from jamming in the slide. I get many jams, and they are all in this location.

 

The other result of the 1-2mm of extra backwards play is that the rear end of the outer barel hits the rear of the open chamber, causing denting there as well.

 

Also, this explains the 1-2mm of back and forth movement that has been mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

Does this make sence to anyone else? Sorry about the confusing description, but I don't know the names of all the parts.

 

Could I avoid this by getting a new slide, or gun, and change the outer barel to one with stronger metal, to avoid the denting, and hence the rest of the problems? Any idea if I could find a stronger outer barel?

 

Thanks,

 

Fed

 

Heyo,

 

I don't have a PX4 at hand right now but it'll be great if you took pics to explain what you're saying. :)

 

As for aftermarket parts I believe currently Shooters Design and Detonator makes slides (other than the HK3P...actually I might've missed one brand, but I can't seem to remember) and as for barrels I believe only Detonator has an aftermarket threaded barrel with the thread protector.

Edited by intinerious

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About 4:10 into this video will show exactly what I am talking about. Look for the denting on the outer barrel near the top of the mid chamber, and at the rear end.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MqrwLpbP0g

 

 

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About 4:10 into this video will show exactly what I am talking about. Look for the denting on the outer barrel near the top of the mid chamber, and at the rear end.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MqrwLpbP0g

 

Hm I see the wear on the middle of the barrel and at the rear of the barrel bottom when the PX4 is a quarter's way through it's slide cycle.

 

However you still seem to be the only one I've heard with jamming problems, so I really can't help you there dude :( Hopefully it's only a lemon, though considering you're in Canada it sucks if you got a lemon ><;

 

Since my society has 18 PX4s I should be able to give you guys more updates in regards to wear and tear as I've got 18 sets of data to sample as opposed to 1. I've got a few friends (5 or 6) with the PX4s too so hopefully if any new problems come up I'll be able to update you guys ASAP. Just to point out that the batch of PX4s I got were new (considering the new box design) so I dunno whether they fixed anything else with the new batch.

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The main area of denting is actuall yjust above the imprinted "9" on the same piece. You can see it in the chamber with the gun in normal position. I took some photos, but cannot figure out how to post images here.

 

After further investigation, it looks to me that the problem may start with cocking and releasing the slide with the safety ON. The safety pushes the trigger back into unlocked position, adding resistance to the slide when it returns to normal position, and this increase in resistance may be what is causing the dent in the outer barrel just above the imprinted "9" which in turn can result in rearward play of the outer barrel, which can then tear off the shard of metal from inside the slide at the outer barrel's most rear location.

 

If I am right, then never cocking the gun with the safety ON should avoid the problem. Whereas cocking the gun repeatedly with the safety ON will result in the metal piece tearing off.

 

What to test this out?

 

Make sence?

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The main area of denting is actuall yjust above the imprinted "9" on the same piece. You can see it in the chamber with the gun in normal position. I took some photos, but cannot figure out how to post images here.

 

After further investigation, it looks to me that the problem may start with cocking and releasing the slide with the safety ON. The safety pushes the trigger back into unlocked position, adding resistance to the slide when it returns to normal position, and this increase in resistance may be what is causing the dent in the outer barrel just above the imprinted "9" which in turn can result in rearward play of the outer barrel, which can then tear off the shard of metal from inside the slide at the outer barrel's most rear location.

 

If I am right, then never cocking the gun with the safety ON should avoid the problem. Whereas cocking the gun repeatedly with the safety ON will result in the metal piece tearing off.

 

What to test this out?

 

Make sence?

 

YOU COCKED THE GUN WITH THE SAFETY ON!?!?!?!?!!? D:

 

That's probably why it broke then! Of all the HK3P PX4s I've tested with (and that's nearly 26 individual guns) none of them will return to full battery with the safety on. Of course, I never tried to brute force the gun back to battery with the safety on once I see the slide getting stuck.....if that is the reason why you broke it be comforted by the fact that the 26 guns I've tested haven't broken yet so your gun isn't really a lemon, merely (and unfortunately :() human error?

 

If you want a cheapo fix then either get the Detonator barrel (with the threads for a silencer) which should be cheaper and easier to....'appear' in canada than the whole slide set, otherwise just get the slide set if it appears anywhere in Canada for sale. If the slide is also broken then only the latter method would suffice unless you're planning to get a slide with better trades...which I have no idea which brand makes the best PX4 slides but I'd guess it's Detonator. Otherwise if you want EU trades then Shooters Design make them too.

 

Hope that helps ><;

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Hey didn't know I shouldn't cock it with the safety on. Besides, it returned no problem each time. Maybe it was a combo thing. Also, many other people have had the same issue, so maybe that isn't even the cause.

 

Anyhow, the store is replacing the gun, so I'll not do this again, and see if the problem recurs.

 

Btw, I found Guarder makes a replacement slide for $50

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Hey didn't know I shouldn't cock it with the safety on. Besides, it returned no problem each time. Maybe it was a combo thing. Also, many other people have had the same issue, so maybe that isn't even the cause.

 

Anyhow, the store is replacing the gun, so I'll not do this again, and see if the problem recurs.

 

Btw, I found Guarder makes a replacement slide for $50

 

I'd stay clear from the Guarder stuff considering the only good slide the seem to make is the Glock one. The rest of their kits (especially for 1911s) shows a lack of engineering on their part; a sentiment that many people who've installed Guarder kits can tell you. Though given that everything is more expensive in Canada I suppose if you're in need of a new slide (but the stock one is fine, no? :P) I suppose you can go that route...hell I didn't even know that guarder makes slides for the PX4 :P

 

Anyway, I didn't 'know' about not cocking the slide with the safety on until I saw all the guns not returning to battery. I don't think it's in the instruction manual either about cocking the slide with the safety on, nor do I have a TM PX4 with me to see if the original can cock the slide with the safety on and make it return to battery. Only reasoning that I can add to reinforce my opinion that the gun shouldn't be cocked with the safety on is that with the safety on the hammer's meant to be decocked anyway. By racking the slide you'll leave the hammer cocked but the safety on; which would put it in a weird state. I'm at home right now so I can't 100% confirm whether the hammer remains cocked once you rack the slide with the safety on but from what I remember it'll stay cocked.

 

Many other people seem to have the same issue as you? Do you have any forum threads you can link to everybody here or did you just hear it off airsofters by mouth over in Canada? I just want to determine whether everyone else has been doing the same thing as you or maybe it's not your problem at all but a bad batch. If they all originate from Canada and given the import laws I'd think any PX4s you guys get over there are probably from the same batch assuming you bought it in a Canadian store. Nonetheless further details would help everyone out in trying to isolate the problem too. I just want to be sure whether I really need to service the 18 PX4s in my society if it's an issue that a lot of people's been facing but just not here on Arnies (at least if they did they didn't post here for help).

 

And good for you for getting a replacement! :D

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*blush* I cocked mine with the safety on....but only a few times I swear. The hammer always fell forward when I did it, however. Could this possibly have led to my broken barrel?

 

Guess I'm wrong then! :D All the PX4s are in Uni right now, I never bother taking them home but I'd have thought they'll stay cocked.

 

Well do you guys know anyone else who has documented a broken barrel and also cocked the slide with the safety on? If every broken barrel can be traced with the fact that the user racked the slides with the safety on then I'd say there's at least partial correlation to the damage caused by the safety being on when the slide is racked.

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*blush* I cocked mine with the safety on....but only a few times I swear. The hammer always fell forward when I did it, however. Could this possibly have led to my broken barrel?

 

Where is your barrel broken?

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I just got the replacement for my 3PX4. It seems the new batch of 3PX4s have a slightly changed design, in that the piece of metal that broke off in the old version is now half the size. It is hard to describe, but it looks good. So far I have not had a recurrent break on this new gun. I haven't tried to cock it with the safety on, and I think I just won't even try it.

 

Well done for HK to fix the problem.

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I just got the replacement for my 3PX4. It seems the new batch of 3PX4s have a slightly changed design, in that the piece of metal that broke off in the old version is now half the size. It is hard to describe, but it looks good. So far I have not had a recurrent break on this new gun. I haven't tried to cock it with the safety on, and I think I just won't even try it.

 

Well done for HK to fix the problem.

 

Thanks for the info too :D The newer batches have the blue box right? As far as I can tell the ones I got for my uni were new given that my friend's don't have the blue box ones.

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