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WE AKS-74UN First Impressions (Pic heavy)


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This one was a WELL G74A. This project was crazy flustrating but finally finished - and fully working.  

Here is my 74UN. Had to mod the little metal piece that came with the Zenit stock, as it doesnt align with the hole on the WE receiver and also it was a little long.     Internals Orga Magnus 6.32mm

I bought a complete WE AK74UN too. Prepare to a comparision video, WELL vs WE. 

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I've never seen that happen on stock internals, it's always the steel firing pin that causes it afaik. But a steel FCG is a must anyway, so this crack will eventually appear too. There's a guide to reinforce it somewhere round here... 
No matter what mumbo jumbo we try to prevent the FCG from snapping, it will eventually happen. Most people seem to have problem with their hammers, but in my experience (having 4 or those in our team) it was always the right prong of the firing pin, the one that slides on that groove. It takes a long, long time to get there though

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Well, I have a cracked trigger box on a Hephaestus reinforced AK.. So this time (and this time only) I won't blame it on RATech :P The firing pin and the channel it moves through seems to be simple a fragile design. 

BTW @DrakLite, don't want to push you with that Well AK comparative review :innocent: ... but can you check if they have steel trigger parts as rumoread? 

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I ordered the bolt lock sear, empty mag locker, and rear sight rail from the "Wii Tech". I will let you guys know how it goes. :)

Please do as im thinking of buying these or the ra tech one. Wonder if the sight rail is a high mount or a low mount like the hepatheus rail...

 

Btw, what kind of mods do I need to do to a RS magpul grip to make it work?

Edited by Dj_komodo
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Mechanically speaking, how do these stack up against the GHK equivalent?

WE AKs vs GHK AKs? wow, that's a pretty wide question..Let's try to sort it briefly:

 

External materials:

WE: Steel receiver, top cover, triangle stock (74U) and barrel (74u only), muzzle device. Most small parts (gas block, front sight, etc) are zinc alloy.

GHK: Everything is steel except the outer barrel. 

 

Internal materials: 

WE: Pretty much everything is zinc alloy. Fire control group will need replacement to steel CNC ones at some point no matter what you try to do. 

GHK: Steel hammer and trigger... but zinc alloy sears and firing pin. Weird mix. Zinc parts will eventually need to be replace by steel too. 

 

Operation:

WE: complete bolt travel, correct "click" on empty, can be set to dry fire

GHK: bolt is heavily short stroked, you get only a dead trigger when out of ammo (no AK"click") 

 

Cooldown: 

WE: If you try long burst of full auto the RoF will be sluggish, but the bbs will go where they are supposed to. 

GHK: Can mag dump all day without noticeable loss of RoF, but the bbs quickly start dropping short.

 

Ammo capacity:

WE: 30 rounds

GHK: 40 rounds

 

Recoil: 

WE: Hard kicker. Probably one of the strongest of all of airsoft guns

GHK: Not as much but quite hard still

 

Hop up assembly:

WE: VSR compatible, great accuracy and range out of the box, easy and cheap to upgrade with Maple Leaf products to achieve pretty much sniper range and accuracy. 

GHK: AEG style, horrendous performance. Might achieve decent range with the new TNT APS-X hop and inner combo (110+ USD)

 

Long story short, GHKs looks better and have better externals, WEs perform way better and provide much more satisfying operation.

 

Edited by Dimitri MdP
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WE AKs vs GHK AKs? wow, that's a pretty wide question..Let's try to sort it briefly:

 

External materials:

WE: Steel receiver, top cover, triangle stock (74U) and barrel (74u only), muzzle device. Most small parts (gas block, front sight, etc) are zinc alloy.

GHK: Everything is steel except the outer barrel. 

 

Internal materials: 

WE: Pretty much everything is zinc alloy. Fire control group will need replacement to steel CNC ones at some point no matter what you try to do. 

GHK: Steel hammer and trigger... but zinc alloy sears and firing pin. Weird mix. Zinc parts will eventually need to be replace by steel too. 

 

Operation:

WE: complete bolt travel, correct "click" on empty, can be set to dry fire

GHK: bolt is heavily short stroked, you get only a dead trigger when out of ammo (no AK"click") 

 

Cooldown: 

WE: If you try long burst of full auto the RoF will be sluggish, but the bbs will go where they are supposed to. 

GHK: Can mag dump all day without noticeable loss of RoF, but the bbs quickly start dropping short.

 

Ammo capacity:

WE: 30 rounds

GHK: 40 rounds

 

Recoil: 

WE: Hard kicker. Probably one of the strongest of all of airsoft guns

GHK: Not as much but quite hard still

 

Hop up assembly:

WE: VSR compatible, great accuracy and range out of the box, easy and cheap to upgrade with Maple Leaf products to achieve pretty much sniper range and accuracy. 

GHK: AEG style, horrendous performance. Might achieve decent range with the new TNT APS-X hop and inner combo (110+ USD)

 

Long story short, GHKs looks better and have better externals, WEs perform way better and provide much more satisfying operation.

 

 

Yay some reasonable discussion on this topic....I really hate it how if I make the argument anywhere I just get a "GHK masterrace" or "lolWE".

 

I do want to defend the WE externals though, the stamped steel is very nice, and real spec unlike the LCT bodies of GHK.

 

Furthermore, installing a LFS disk or asia nozzle helps the WE cooldown so much.

Edited by vorpalbunnie
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I recently picked up a used PMC model with four mags very cheap (around $200 USD). None of the parts are broken, the previous owner just didn't have use for it. I'm going through renovations, and most of my airsoft stuff is tucked away in a storage unit for a few months, so I don't have access to it.

I'm wanting to completely overhaul it internally and externally, though I'd like some advice before I go ahead. I sat down for about an hour and read through this entire thread, so I'm hoping I absorbed enough info.

  1. How is the compatibility with real AK parts? Specifically, handguards, gas tubes, and dust covers? I'm looking at installing the Texas Weapons System short top Mlok handguard, and the TWS Dogleg railed dust cover. 

    If later on I'm feeling adventurous, I'm considering replacing the sight trunnion with a steel one. Do you think it would be possible to modify a real trunnion, or would I have better luck trying to fit an AEG part? 

    How about outer barrels? If all else fails I could possibly look at finding someone to machine one, I'd rather have something that fits with the rest of the rifle.

     
  2. Anyone know where to locate the Well clones, or more specifically the Co2 magazines? The two websites I found no longer have them. 

    While we're still on the topic of magazines, how is valve compatibility? I've got a few A+ Ramjet valves I'm interested in trying out. 



I've go a few other questions/comments.

 

  1. 1. Every so often on the GHK groups I see people saying the WE isn't "truly full travel" to prove why GHK is the better system. Anyone know if there is truth to this, or just typical banter? 

     
  2. I'm not denying that the parts are zinc alloy, I'm just curious in knowing who figured out WE uses zinc alloy parts. Someone who was working on a project a while back asked me this same question and I didn't have any info on it other than through word of mouth.

     
  3. How did the WE steel trigger set fair? I didn't see much in the ways of discussion about it here.



I'm really curious to see how the Wii Tech parts end up being. The triggers were released a few weeks after their other parts, so there's a possibility they could be producing the rest of the parts, like they did for the TA2015. I've sent them an email asking about other parts. I remember reading here about an issue with either the RA or Hep sear catching too early. The Wii Tech sear and trigger grooves seem to be significantly smoother, so operation may be smoother. Really excited to hear how they work out. I'm tempted to pick up a set, especially if they fair better than the current offerings. 



Other plans I have for my gun involve either using washers/FG LFS discs or the Japan spec nozzle for an improved blowback with a lower output. Anything I'm missing? 

 

Edited by Wooly_Booly
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Answers in red

 

I recently picked up a used PMC model with four mags very cheap (around $200 USD). None of the parts are broken, the previous owner just didn't have use for it. I'm going through renovations, and most of my airsoft stuff is tucked away in a storage unit for a few months, so I don't have access to it.

I'm wanting to completely overhaul it internally and externally, though I'd like some advice before I go ahead. I sat down for about an hour and read through this entire thread, so I'm hoping I absorbed enough info.

  1. How is the compatibility with real AK parts? Specifically, handguards, gas tubes, and dust covers? I'm looking at installing the Texas Weapons System short top Mlok handguard, and the TWS Dogleg railed dust cover. 

    Compatibility with real parts is quite good, most will fit with minimal changes.  Handguards fit easily, gas tubes fit but might require some filing of the gas piston depending on the inner diameter. Dust covers I think are not compatible.

    If later on I'm feeling adventurous, I'm considering replacing the sight trunnion with a steel one. Do you think it would be possible to modify a real trunnion, or would I have better luck trying to fit an AEG part? 

    Not sure what you mean by sight trunnion. Front sight is easy to fit, so is the rear sight block. The trunnion itself i(the part that fixes the barrel to the receiver) s the only part I wouldn't dare to change, as it would require tremendous modding to properly fit, and heavy machines to fixate. 

    How about outer barrels? If all else fails I could possibly look at finding someone to machine one, I'd rather have something that fits with the rest of the rifle.

    It would be pretty complicated to machine, specially the end that holds the hop up chamber. I suggest getting a WE AKS-74UN outer barrel as they are made of steel (as oposed to the aluminum WE AK PMC outer barrel) thread it and machine just an outer barrel extension. The union will be hidden inside the handguard. That's what we did for our RPK and it's holding really good


     
  2. Anyone know where to locate the Well clones, or more specifically the Co2 magazines? The two websites I found no longer have them. 
    Right now is out of stock in TaiwanGun, the only website I knew of. Which is the other?

    While we're still on the topic of magazines, how is valve compatibility? I've got a few A+ Ramjet valves I'm interested in trying out. 
    IIRC is compatible with WE M4 valves, and pretty much all aftermarket valves are designed for that. Still there's no need to "upgrade" those imho

I've go a few other questions/comments.

 

  1. 1. Every so often on the GHK groups I see people saying the WE isn't "truly full travel" to prove why GHK is the better system. Anyone know if there is truth to this, or just typical banter? 

    Just fanboys doing  their thing. 

     
  2. I'm not denying that the parts are zinc alloy, I'm just curious in knowing who figured out WE uses zinc alloy parts. Someone who was working on a project a while back asked me this same question and I didn't have any info on it other than through word of mouth.

    "Pot metal" is some sort of casted zinc and alluminum alloy. 

     
  3. How did the WE steel trigger set fair? I didn't see much in the ways of discussion about it here.

    I have no freaking idea. Being somewhat more expensive than RA-Tech and Hephaestus (as you have to buy the individual parts) I don't know of anyone that has them installed. It was a really late release anyway, so most of us already have some other steel FCG installed already. That being said, it does look really good, an I would trust them more than RA-Tech, or even Hephaestus (I'm kind of let down by the recent hammer head separation issue, something that won't happen on RA or WE's as they are 1 piece)

    If you are willing to take one for the team, please consider using it and report back your findings :)

     

I'm really curious to see how the Wii Tech parts end up being. The triggers were released a few weeks after their other parts, so there's a possibility they could be producing the rest of the parts, like they did for the TA2015. I've sent them an email asking about other parts. I remember reading here about an issue with either the RA or Hep sear catching too early. The Wii Tech sear and trigger grooves seem to be significantly smoother, so operation may be smoother. Really excited to hear how they work out. I'm tempted to pick up a set, especially if they fair better than the current offerings. 

Looks like it. Strangely enough there is no firing pin or  hammer in their offerings, so perhaps a mix with WE's reinforced parts would do.


Other plans I have for my gun involve either using washers/FG LFS discs or the Japan spec nozzle for an improved blowback with a lower output. Anything I'm missing? 

FG-airsoft LFS all the way. 


Missing... perhaps upgrades for the accuracy and range?  Don't get me wrong, the WE AK is really good in that aspect just out of the box (a gazillion times better than GHK's), but the "everything Maple Leaf " route seems to be the ultimate precision combo, easily achieving sniper-like range and accuracy. 

Maple Leaf Autobot 70º + Maple Leaf hop tensioner (concave nub) + Maple Leaf 6.02 inner barrel and this gun becomes the best of the field.

 

Edited by Dimitri MdP
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Every so often on the GHK groups I see people saying the WE isn't "truly full travel" to prove why GHK is the better system. Anyone know if there is truth to this, or just typical banter?

 

I've seen three versions of this sort of banter. One points out to the fact that there is a protrusion at the rear of the bolt carrier. While real AKs have this in the form of an out of battery safety device (hammer block) WE's is just an extension of the nozzle housing and does appear to be a few mm longer. If through that they mean the charging handle falls short by a few mm, sure. But what's a few mm compared to cutting bolt travel right in half?

The second points out how the dust cover latch impedes total rearward movement of the bolt. And it does and should because it prevents the bolt from reaching the cuts on the receiver for it to pop up and out much like the real thing. GHK does this too, which leads me to believe it may be possible to modify a GHK into a full travel bolt or as full as it gets as the protrusion at the rear of the bolt is twice that of WE's so GHK falls short no matter what.

Last points to the slow rof of the WE AK and how using a short stroke kit is mandatory for it to be remotely useable for gaming. I don't blame them here as they probably haven't heard of much more compact rof boosting devices like that of FG Airsoft, Team GBB, or my own DIY thing as they're too busy circlejerking with the rest of the GHK master race fanbois.

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GHK hammer can't support full bolt travel because it gets caught by the bolt carrier, when the bolt carrier travels back near the rear.

 

 

In terms of which is better,

 

WE:

+ Weight closer to RS

+ Great kick

+ Better power

+ Better accuracy

+ Better consistency of shot

+ Can mod pretty much everything including blowback unit

- Poor gas efficiency (magazine dependent).

- Trigger box breakages

- Trigger set breakage must be replaced

- Recoil spring guide must be replaced 

- The trigger box design discharges gas when inserting/removing magazine (can be modified)

 

GHK:

+ Better external build

+ Good solid cycling

+ Low FPS (which can be a good thing)

+ "Reliable" mags and functioning

+ Slightly more durable hammer/triggers

- Lightweight

- Sear breakages

- Snapping spring guide

- C clip falls out during each game

- Trigger/hammer Pins fall out

- Poor accuracy (fixable using VSR hop)

- Cannot tune blowback unit

 

Having used both, WE has a higher first round hit probability while the GHK is more likely to keep shooting round after round.

 

What I did notice was that the WE on the 74 mags will mag dump quite reliably while on the 47 mags would struggle.  I guess the compromise is to use 74 mags on the PMC. 

 

Once you tune a WE, aside from the trigger box cracks (which does require eproxy strengthening), it requires very little upkeep.  GHK requires constant small amount of upkeep.  Using a VSR hop on the GHK with its bolt carrier also introduces other upkeep issues. 

 

In terms of which I would buy for skirmishing, they are both very close.  Costs are around the same once you factor in steel trigger sets and spring guide replacements, and mags are slightly cheaper on the WE than the GHK.

 

I went to for WE, given its closer to the RS weight and balance than the GHK.

 

I bought 2 WE PMCs:

- One converted to an AKM with LCT gas tube and GHK woodkit (requires modification to fit), With an up powered bolt carrier.  440fps on 0.25g

- One converted to a PDW, with no gas tube, 7" barrel, lightened bolt carrier (100g less than normal) and a AIMS side folder.  370fps on 0.25g

 

I took the sliding stock and put it onto my NHM90s.

Edited by 3vi1-D4n
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- Recoil spring guide must be replaced 

- The trigger box design discharges gas when inserting/removing magazine (can be modified)

dafuq I've never seen a spring guide needed to be replaced.

 

And the gas discharge when inserting the magazine only happens if you run out of gas and try to get a new one without cocking the gun. That way (and that way only) the firing pin will be in the down (not "out of rounds") and non-retracted (as it retracts each time the gun is cocked, either by the user or the action) position

 

Normal operation won't discharge gas at all when inserting a magazine. Never seen them discharge when releasing a magazine, that's just mechanically impossible.

Edited by Dimitri MdP
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