Isamu Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Bought an ICS M4 CQB sometime ago and im amazed how a good performer and great platform it is, being the DMR role something I would like to test and not wanting to spend a ludicrous amount of money on an specialized platform, Im thinking about starting with this. Base: ICS M4 sportline I chose this as it is not too expensive and brings some goodies along Internals: M120 Spring. is any spring good enough for 430FPS? Guarder 6.02mm TBB (owned) Madbull Blue bucking + Flat hop mod Externals: 11" or longuer free float rail for a DMRish look. I would like it to be a drop in kit as I dont feel very confident on modding threads Battery: Lipo 7.4v 20C 1300mah Suggestions? criticism? options? Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites
sniperelite7 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Not a gearbox guy ever since buying the polarstar fusion. But that should make for an excellent dmr. You should consider the r-hop, which is the next evolution of the flat hop mod. Currently my dmr is blasting away at 450fps/.2g. Using .40g bb's. 300ft bodyshots are easily obtained. Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted December 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Yeah, it would be nice to have the Rhop installed, but im not the techtype and in my country nobody knows what the flat hop is, much less the Rhop, and shipping the gun to a proper tech would make the setup stop being "budget-ish" The Flat hop with a sorbo nub is giving me nice results without a TBBB, probably with one and a bit of refinement will improve it a bit more, plus the power increase make it outrange other DMRs in the field. Ah! the beauty of the budget-ish guns BTW: I heard ICS pistons are not very good, any confirmation on this? what would improve changing the piston and piston head? Link to post Share on other sites
sniperelite7 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Hmmm, flathop is still fragile. Of course, the guy who tested that was trying it out in extreme 550+ setups trying to lift .66g steel ball bearings! But if you do decide to give it a go http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/hop-installation-manual-t225374.html Not a very hard DIY, and there are some really good guides in the thread. Specifically towards the end of it. As for ICS pistons? I woudn't know. Your setup doesn't seem particularly stressful on the drive train components so...shoudn't be a problem...? I'd just focus on airseal components, get them airtight, run it till stuff breaks. Whiskey11 on here ran an almost bone stock dmr with great success, most of the modifications comprising of stuff you'd find in the "holy grail to building a dmr" which was written by one of the members on here. Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted December 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Yeah, thats a bit extreme, I just aim to get an average performance without killing my budget or the gun itself (not the crafty type myself) Airtightness seems fine in these guns, a simple madbull blue bucking, scs nub and stock barrel leaves a mere 2 FPS variation from shot to shot, although after the Flat hop mod this variation climbed to 3 or 4 fps variation, not bad... I think ^_^U What should be the average range of this setup? thanks Link to post Share on other sites
sniperelite7 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Yeah, thats a bit extreme, I just aim to get an average performance without killing my budget or the gun itself (not the crafty type myself) Airtightness seems fine in these guns, a simple madbull blue bucking, scs nub and stock barrel leaves a mere 2 FPS variation from shot to shot, although after the Flat hop mod this variation climbed to 3 or 4 fps variation, not bad... I think ^_^U What should be the average range of this setup? thanks Would depend on what weight bb you use. Since the two hop up styles operate on the same principle. My setup, I can expect man sized hits out to 300ft with .40gs, which is as far as i've tested it, using lighter .32g bb's I could reliably make a shot at 250-270ft if I remember correctly. Another user, again using the r-hop, the gun was running at 430fps, using .36g bbs, could expect hits on a man at 325ft. Star_Folder, one of the moderators on the forum I linked you too, running his dmr setup at 560fps with the flathop, was getting accurate hits out to <350ft. Another user could expect hits out too 350ft using the flathop modification on a dmr that was shooting 560fps as well. All those long range shots where done with BB's that weigh .36gs or heavier. What kind of nub are you using for the flat hop modification? Link to post Share on other sites
sniperelite7 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Oh and a video too. Not mine. But it did convince me of the flathop's effectiveness. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mfdcczPe4Q#ws Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted December 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Yes, following that tpic and others at airsoft forum(im a regular lurker myself ) made me test the flat hop on my CQB and man, even with cheap 0.25BBs it shot farther than some upgraded AEGs in the field (too bad it was a windy day), quite easy to do to be honest, just needed a bit of patience and practice with the dremmel. Right now im using a piece of sorbothane as nub, but I have to refine it a bit as It expands a bit in contact with the rubber and pressure from the hop arm, I can overhop 0.25BBs , but I think I should be able to overhop them applying less pressure. The bucking is a Madbull blue as they are wider than regular buckings, giving me some slack if I screw it a bit with the dremmel and a bit more durability as this mod puts more stress in the bucking Im quite bad measuring distances but I would like to achive 80m with my intended setup using 0.25g BBs as I dont like carrying different ammo for my main and secondary gun (mandatory n my fields) Link to post Share on other sites
sniperelite7 Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Fields don't allow you to carry two types of ammo? Irregardless, 262 should be perfectly doable. Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted December 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Yes they do, I explained myself poorly, in my fields if we play a specialist role like DMR, we are obligued to carry a secondary less powerful sidegun, SMG, pistol... and since I use 020 and 025 with my pistol I would prefer to use the same ammo with my pistol and primary gun, this is 0.25g, maybe a bit light for a 430FPS setup, but good thing is that the BBs will travel faster Link to post Share on other sites
sniperelite7 Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Ah, I see. Try a .30g. Past 100 or so feet(as an arbitrary number i've heard thrown around) the heavier BB will be going faster than the lighter one, no matter if it seems like the lighter bb goes faster.. I'd buy a bag and see if your pistol can use it. If it can then stick with it for both guns. My opinion of course, but after a long while obsessing over range and accuracy. Heavy is bettter. Without a doubt! Speaking from personal experience of course. But if a player in Japan with its 290fps limit(?) is using .28g bb's in their primaries and sidearms....I see no reason why a player in a country that allows for a higher fps limit, is using a lighter BB. Link to post Share on other sites
The Bushman Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 I agree that in higher power setups, heavier pellets are the way to go. I have tried all different weights and brands over the years. At low power (factory standard TM AEG) you will notice very little extra benefit of accuracy due to flat range degrading. Hence why for years people could not agree on if 0.20g or 0.25g were the way to go. I use 0.30g in TM Gas pistols as the hop can easily handle it and gives great range/accuracy. Lighter pellets do move faster initially, but once past a certain range.... they have actually taken longer than a heavier pellet would to get to the same distance. If your setup is about trying to get good range and accuracy and uses a MED; you want 0.30g at least imo. read this article... its very very good... HERE Good Hunting Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted December 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Will try those 0.30g if I can find them in bio format, which are the only BBs allowed in my fields... The heaviest BbioBBs I have found are ICS 0.28g, others I found are too expensive and too few per bag... any experience with those? My pistol and my CQB shoot almost at the same FPS, around 330FPS so i think if the CQB can handle them, the pistol too... Should had done the role change some time ago, im learning sooooo much EDIT: Do you recommend washing the BBs? I read that making so the this layer on the BBs dissapear and that lets the BB get a better grip with the bucking, which should be beneficial due the flat hop principles... Link to post Share on other sites
sniperelite7 Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Dunno about Bio-BBs...but for everything else. YES wash the damn things. Link to post Share on other sites
Jack the Ripper Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Washing biodegradable BB's? Won't they expand or something? I never heard of washing BB's before, I am very curious how it works out Link to post Share on other sites
findiboy16 Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 rebuilds can be pretty exspensive!! a good idea would be to take the cost of the gun and try not to go over it!! try the forums you can get second hand bits pretty cheaply id go for a madbull hop and a tightbore barrel they are easy upgrades that will get great performance out of your gun without really having to start opening the gearbox! a 9inch rail is a lot cheaper than a 12 inch rail and they are commonly found here!! you can then add a silencer and run a longer inner barrel through it! just a thought Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted December 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Yeah, I thought about getting the gun in spares, but it would be a harder and longer process so I have opted by just getting the one in the link and use the accesories as it is a good value package. My concern with the rail is it to fit in the gun with no mods, 9 or 12".. well, It is secondary compared with the compatibility. I will use a 4.02 guarder 6.02mm TBB as it is between the sweet spot and I already own one from older setups Any suggestion for the rail? Link to post Share on other sites
Robin-Hood Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Open the gearbox up, make sure you have a perfect airseal and compression. Correct AOE, Shim it properly, radius the gearbox window. You need consistency to achieve good accuracy. I'd also add a chinese neo high torque motor like an SHS, Element, 5KU or whatever and run it on an 11.1 not a 7.4 I can't say whether it will last for any length of time because I don't really know ICS internals. Link to post Share on other sites
tome Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 The ICS is a good start for at DMR. I will echo all the above regarding consistency. One thing to add is to use tape (or whatever else) as shims between the inner and outer barrel. The ICS has very solid internals. Since you're running a stock lower gearbox it should run for years! Only other things I'd suggest are MOSFET and 11.1v lipo to reduce trigger lag. Possibly something like a G&P m160 motor too. Though this is more for feel than for effect give you have an MED Link to post Share on other sites
Gish Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Will try those 0.30g if I can find them in bio format, which are the only BBs allowed in my fields... The heaviest BbioBBs I have found are ICS 0.28g, others I found are too expensive and too few per bag... any experience with those? Try and find some Green Devil Bio .30's. I've used them to great success in my guns Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted December 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Will try to find them, but sourcing BBs from abroad is... well, very expensive Link to post Share on other sites
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