Army 1911 Gold Cup Series

[Asterix1977]

HI! First time poster, long time lurker here. After so many succesful (and failed) buys based on the reviews and opinions I read here, I decided to write my very own.

 

While Im usually into ”tactical-military” guns, Ive been wanting to get a “fancy” 1911 for a year or so and thankfully this one came out before I started polishing my Kimber.

 

I took me a while to find out what exact gun this was a replica of, but I finally found it: it’s a Colt MK IV Series 70 1911 -- National Match Gold Cup, which is a gun that was introduced in 1970 as a competition pistol, ready use for sport shooting out of the box, with many upgrade over the original 1911 and more customizable.

You can see pictures of a real Series 70 (and note how accurate the Army replica is) here:

 

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/10522070/colt-mk-iv-series-70-1911-retractable-stock-for-hk-91

 

BTW: the real version isn’t produced anymore, so very sought aftyer by collectors.

 

 

 

1. Presentation

 

Like most Army GBBs, this pistol comes in a nice carboard box with foam inserts to hold the following: pistol, one magazine, extra o-rings and nozzle, tool (to separate the inner barrel) and some cheap BBs. Also, instructions and a catalog. The box has only got “M1911A1 Standard” written on it.

 

 

2. Externals

 

As you can see in the link above, this is a great replica, very detailed. This gun features an all black finish, matte, except for the outer barrel and the recoil spring guide, which are a nice chrome, like the Army MEU. The gun has a standard lower, no rail, which gives the gun a more elegant look compared to the fatter Kimber Warrior. The hammer would be the classic style, but longer, with deep serrations. The trigger is black (definitely gonna polish it), but is a light model, with almost no material in the center. Grip safety is also similar to the classic: straight, unlike the Warrior, MEU or other tactical 1911. The thumb safety is also the old style: short. Not my favourite, but it works better than the one on my Kimber, since this one isn’t ambidextreous, only on the left side.

 

There’s no texturizing on the front of the lower, which goes with the slicker image of this pistol. Same goes for the slanted serrations on the slide, only present on the back. The grips are plastic, with a similar texture to the original US G.I. ones, but with a sort of Colt logo medaillon in silver in the middle of them. Another nice detail are the screws: hex instead of regular flat heads.

 

The markings are very cool: there’s “Colt's MK IV / Series '70 / Gold Cup National Match / .45 Automatic Caliber" + Colt’s Horse on the left side of the slide.

“Gold Cup National Match” + a Cup on the right side.

 

And “Colt'sPT.FA. MFG. Co. Hartford.Conn.U.S.A.” on the right side of the frame. And of course the omnipresent “.45 ACP” on the chamber.

 

The rear sigh is marked with “Elliason” and the way the screw has to be turned to adjust for elevation and windage (after all, this is a precision shooting gun). All in all, great markings, 90% correct, deep and sharp.

 

 

The magazine is a standard Marui 1911/MEU style mag with flat base plate, painted in the same flat black. It holds 24 rounds (25 if you chamber one and reload). Quality is the same as any other Army 1911 style GBB. Although they will work, don’t waist your money on a Marui magazine: while they are great, Marui cant give you more gas capacity either. Ive been able to shoot 1.5 mags of BBs for every full gas charge, inside the house.

 

All these parts are of course compatible with my Army Kimber, which means this gun can use any part made for Marui, Army, Bell & other Clones: 1911, MEU, Nightwarrior, Desert Warrior, Army Kimber, etc.

 

3. Shooting

 

Using this gun is pretty much like shooting any other Marui based 1911, so I wont go into much detail, as this is not the first 1911 type of gun Army has made and they all perform pretty similarly. While they aren’t Marui out of the box, they don’t cost 150$ and are metal, so for 60$, you will not be disappointed, on the contrary. If you know how to disassemble a 1911 or at least clean it properly, you can get one of the best shooters out there for 20$ more, should you not be satisfied with the inner barrel and the hop up rubber. This is for serious players only; beginners, collectors, and any normal player will be satisfied with the performance (it shoots almost as well as my Meister Glock 17. Not much, you say? Well, my G17 out-performs my Marui P226, so… yeah).

 

Range, hop and accuracy are in the area of what I expected (this would be my 4^th Army GBB). The blowback action is stronger than my Kimber’s, but instead of making a crisp “kling”, it’s a deeper, stronger “thump”.

 

The average FPS is: 310 (306 to 313 FPS). My experience with Army 1911s is that their mags need to be broken in a bit, before they stabilize in their muzzle velocity. The gas will also last more after using them 10 or so times.

 

LINK: http://www.acmgear.com/army-works-replica-1911-gold-series-gbbp-black-p-2098.html

 

[BigAl]

Cool, been waiting for this, shame about the matt black finish. Thanks for the review dude.

[BigAl]

Just tried to create an account on acn to order one and got the "Connection Untrusted Message". Is this a safe site?

[Asterix1977]

Yeah, the site is safe: Ive ordered 3 times from them.

 

I forgot to add that the slide has very little rattle, compared to most 1911s. Only one side to side movement, if you shake it hard.

[TeowneD]

i think i'm gonna stuff my TM 1911 guts into this....

[Asterix1977]

Yeah, Ive always thought about doing this, but if you tweak your Army a bit, it will shoot even better than a TM. I know Marui are the best, but that doesnt mean other brands cant be made to shoot better for little extra money or just by sanding, lubing, tefloning a bit here and there.

[TeowneD]

Yeah, Ive always thought about doing this, but if you tweak your Army a bit, it will shoot even better than a TM. I know Marui are the best, but that doesnt mean other brands cant be made to shoot better for little extra money or just by sanding, lubing, tefloning a bit here and there.

 

very true, but i'd rather just drop in my TM bits since i've got much spare parts. However if i were to do that, the barrel assembly, hopup and the BBU would be the first things i'd switch, and then touch up the rest.

 

-brendan

[hwagan]

Nice review man - For the price that thing looks insanely good. Any signs of the finish wearing or chipping early or does it seem pretty tough?

[Asterix1977]

Army's finishing is solid, thick layer of paint. My WE Desert Warrior 4.3 started flaking and scratching on the very first day.

[intinerious]

very true, but i'd rather just drop in my TM bits since i've got much spare parts. However if i were to do that, the barrel assembly, hopup and the BBU would be the first things i'd switch, and then touch up the rest.

 

-brendan

 

Be careful about the dimension differences. I know this might not apply to the ARMY tolerances but I broke my Bell 1911 lower frame (the grip screw holes torqued off) and I replaced it with a stock TM plastic lower. The internal frame of the Bell 1911 is different than the TM one; I can't fit the pint through the hammer between the outer frame and the inner frame if I am to fit the pin that secures the sear disconnector. You might be stuck using the inner frame of the ARMY 1911 although that shouldn't be much of a problem other than the fitting of the slide to the internal frame rails. However Asterix1977 noted that there is little slide wobble so I guess that's fine

 

Btw Asterix1977, how's the rear adjustable sight? Does it lock in tightly and won't get loose after shooting a couple of mags? It's not a big problem (blue locktite would solve any loose screw situation ) but it's nice to know if the sights stay zero'ed once you've set them. Also, the hop up arm stays put as well right? For the Bell 1911 clones they lack the small o-ring to provide a frictional force for the hop arm dial so the Bell 1911 hop up would stay at zero as it won't lock in any settings. I had to add a 0.2mm shim to lock the damn dial in place but once the shim is added the hop up setting will always stay there and never dial back down

[Asterix1977]

Havent shot too much with it, but the sight seems very tight. I know what you are saying about the hop up moving around, happens with my Kimber. This one has a pretty hard hop up (need to use your nail to ove it), so I dont think itll move.

[vilerk]

Just ordered one from RSOV along with a 5KU short 3-holed trigger. Does the pistol come with an o-ring piston head? Hopefully this gives me a better experience then my WE from years ago..

[Wingman]

If the trigger on this Gold Cup is anything like the real steel, the 3 hole trigger might not fit well. If memory serves (it's been 20 years since I owned a real steel Gold Cup) the trigger is considerably wider on the Gold Cup as is the triggers slot that is cut into the frame. This was one of the reasons why they were not that popular for IPSC conversions. However, I do remember the trigger as being one of the best "out of the box" triggers I ever had on a 1911 style pistol.

 

I think I'm going to have to pick one of these up.

[intinerious]

Havent shot too much with it, but the sight seems very tight. I know what you are saying about the hop up moving around, happens with my Kimber. This one has a pretty hard hop up (need to use your nail to ove it), so I dont think itll move.

 

Thanks for the info

 

If the trigger on this Gold Cup is anything like the real steel, the 3 hole trigger might not fit well. If memory serves (it's been 20 years since I owned a real steel Gold Cup) the trigger is considerably wider on the Gold Cup as is the triggers slot that is cut into the frame. This was one of the reasons why they were not that popular for IPSC conversions. However, I do remember the trigger as being one of the best "out of the box" triggers I ever had on a 1911 style pistol.

 

I think I'm going to have to pick one of these up.

 

I don't think the trigger would have dimensional differences (excluding any ACM tolerance issues should any arise) since I don't see ARMY making a new trigger and frame JUST to replicate the Gold Cup down to every little detail, so any trigger made for the Marui should fit the ARMY Gold Cup (again, excluding any tolerance issues). Thanks for the info about the real steel Gold Cup though, I never knew that the real steel uses a different trigger dimensions than the other 1911s, although I saw the pics from Asterix1977's link to the real steel pics and the trigger adjustment 'screw' is very unique

[BigAl]

As above would think the trigger would be standard size. Nice to see this gun though as perhaps it means we'll see other guns that aren't just a copy of some other make. A Combat Comander that it TM Compatible would be nice if anyone at Army is reading this.

[Wingman]

If you take a close look at the front of the trigger, you'll notice that it is wider and the cut into the trigger guard goes deeper into the area surrounding the magazine release.

[intinerious]

If you take a close look at the front of the trigger, you'll notice that it is wider and the cut into the trigger guard goes deeper into the area surrounding the magazine release.

 

On the replica or the real steel? If it's the real steel I see what you mean. If it's the replica I can't really tell if it's bigger than standard TM triggers from the photos.

 

Perhaps Asterix1977 can shed some light onto this, assuming he's got an extra TM style 1911 lying around somewhere?

[BigAl]

Will check this when I get mine ( should be here anyday know ), I'd be very supprised if Army bothered to change it from TM 1911 Spec.

[Armourpiercing]

I've just got mine on order, but it's not black. As with the kimber & detonics it's not black, it's grey (compare the grip panels to the frame). Army GBB's do shoot very well after a clean up & I can confirm that you can fit just about any TM part into it BUT it doesn't like after market triggers (the bar to be exact, the trigger itself willbe fine).

You'll also notice how deep the chamber sits inside the slide - you cannot mod this out, your stuck with a deep set barrel set up.

AP.

[intinerious]

I've just got mine on order, but it's not black. As with the kimber & detonics it's not black, it's grey (compare the grip panels to the frame). Army GBB's do shoot very well after a clean up & I can confirm that you can fit just about any TM part into it BUT it doesn't like after market triggers (the bar to be exact, the trigger itself willbe fine).

You'll also notice how deep the chamber sits inside the slide - you cannot mod this out, your stuck with a deep set barrel set up.

AP.

 

Actually I've noticed all the TM 1911 clones shoot well bar considering the magazines. The 1911 has such a good design (there's only one 'round' spring but that round spring is easy to understand it's function) that it's VERY easy to understand how each and every part works in the gun. I've never had the chance to touch a real steel before (oh the joys of living in HK D:) but on the TM 1911s it's easy to understand how the firing mechanism fits together because of the simplicity of design. As such, it's very hard for the clones to muck up unless there are some very wide tolerance issues.

 

I've played with a Bell 1911 before (full metal, problem was the grip screw holes snapped off because of it being pot metal) but after dunking all the parts in warm, detergent mixed water and giving all the parts a rinse (including the screws and springs) the gun worked as well as a stock TM 1911 (mag was good too). I've had reports from a CQB wargame site that used to rent out Tercel 1911s and even the owner of the place said of all the ACM 1911s he's played with they are generally problem free and if there's a problem it's easily fixed as long as it's not because of the quality of the materials used.

 

Anyway, for the trigger bar, do you mean the trigger stirrup that connects the trigger assembly to the sear? Or are you talking about the little pin that holds the trigger and the bar in place?

 

For the barrel, I think ARMY designed it such that the barrel will easily clear the slide so that there is reduced (or no) friction from the slide/barrel interaction. As I do not have one of these guns in my hand and that ARMY seemed to have completely designed the gun from scratch (well from pictures I guess and the existing TM dimensions for the 1911) they MIGHT have (and I would be very guilty but happy if they did) copied Illusion's (from ASC) fixed barrel design which is sold by Illusion himself and ProG4 right now. The fixed barrel means that the barrel will not tilt like in the real steel and original TM design and as such the barrel never really touches the slide; leading to better slide movement as a result.

 

If ARMY copied that design the whole mechanism for the gun would essentially be problem free and the slide would cycle very well dependent on the tolerances of the BBU/inner frame interaction, hammer/BBU interaction when the slide is in transition and the tolerances between the slide rail grooves and the inner frame rails. The fixed barrel design is also used in Airsoft Surgeon's custom hicapas btw, that's why his guns cycle well (with consideration to the tolerances of the aftermarket kits he used).

 

If I'm wrong however; you can still replace the barrel with a steel fixed one if you guys contact Illusion on ASC or ProG4. The ProG4 barrel is here:

 

http://www.prog4.com/db/product-show.asp?refno=AR1586

 

If you guys want to upgrade the gun such that the trigger response can be modified to be wiggle free (parallel to the trigger movement at least; if you're talking about the trigger wiggle side to side tangential to the trigger movement it depends on the tolerances of the frame itself and the trigger) then grab this:

 

http://www.prog4.com/db/product-show.asp?refno=AR1419

 

This is the adjustable trigger stirrup for the TM 1911s; bending the tab outwards near the bit where the stirrup meets the trigger would force the trigger assembly to sit rearwards from the rest position; therefore you can adjust it so that the stirrup will always positively touch the sear at rest position to remove any trigger slack.

 

To reduce trigger overtravel, it seems from the pics above the Gold Cup already includes and adjustable trigger; so as long as you adjust the trigger itself you'll be able to remove trigger overtravel.

 

There's so much more you can mod into this gun. I'm pretty sure PDI or KM or Carom Shot makes a similar hammer but in stainless steel; couple that with a steel sear, valve hammer and disconnector set and you'll have a pretty rigid firing mechanism that would really feel like breaking a glass rod when you pull the trigger. Add a lightweight steel sear spring and you'll be able to mod the trigger to be light as hell too (but I don't like to mod the trigger to the lightest possible, I find that by doing so you'll increase the trigger return time because of the lighter force against the trigger. Replacing the sear spring with the lighter ones that ProG4, Illusion and Airsoft Surgeon makes would still decrease the total force on the trigger and gives better adjustability so that your trigger can be light enough but still allow for a good trigger return time. Otherwise stick with the stock one if you want a trigger weight high enough to replicate real steel firearms..I'm assuming the stock sear spring can increase the trigger weight from 4 pounds upwards).

 

I really hope the slide and frame are very very close to the original TM specs; I can probably add enough aftermarket parts onto and into the gold cup to make it a fabulous shooter

[Armourpiercing]

Even with the other barrels I have popped into the R series they all sit deep when you look at it but all the barrels have fitted fine & vice/versa in a TM & other brands but WE guns are fussy with them.

 

Yeah, the stirrup or bow,I needed to bend a few into bizzare shapes to allow them to seat inside the fames & allow the trigger to move without jamming on the mag, although to be honest, the problem was lesser with Army mags than, say, a Tercel, TM or KJ when aguarder trigger was used inside an Army gun but it was still present.

 

As a gun direct from the box, providing you clean the barrel before you use it, you can just get shooting straight away.

I also find there is a LOT of grease inside the frame but I've never had a problem with them regardless of if I clean all the grease out or not.

The Army range are very good - much better than WE, Bell or Tecel

AP.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Armourpiercing

[intinerious]

Even with the other barrels I have popped into the R series they all sit deep when you look at it but all the barrels have fitted fine & vice/versa in a TM & other brands but WE guns are fussy with them.

 

Yeah, the stirrup or bow,I needed to bend a few into bizzare shapes to allow them to seat inside the fames & allow the trigger to move without jamming on the mag, although to be honest, the problem was lesser with Army mags than, say, a Tercel, TM or KJ when aguarder trigger was used inside an Army gun but it was still present.

 

As a gun direct from the box, providing you clean the barrel before you use it, you can just get shooting straight away.

I also find there is a LOT of grease inside the frame but I've never had a problem with them regardless of if I clean all the grease out or not.

The Army range are very good - much better than WE, Bell or Tecel

AP.

 

You had to bend the stirrup to weird shapes? Is it mainly due to the problem with fitting it to the frame or does the mag rub against the stirrup?

 

I think WE guns have problems with the barrel is because there are some dimensional differences. The Madbull threaded barrel for the 1911s that should fit the WE and SOCOM gear 1911s don't work on the TM slides; nor does the TM bushings work on the WE barrels if I remember correctly.

[calbur20]

They actually do, as I have an Army MEU fitted with the Madbull threaded barrel installed (sans the ridiculously long inner barrel). It's not a TM per se, but it's a clone, so close enough. It just takes some breaking in, but it's in there now, taking names and breaking hearts.

Edited December 29, 2011 by calbur20

[intinerious]

They actually do, as I have an Army MEU fitted with the Madbull threaded barrel installed (sans the ridiculously long inner barrel). It's not a TM per se, but it's a clone, so close enough. It just takes some breaking in, but it's in there now, taking names and breaking hearts.

 

Hmmm then what's all this talk about the barrel not being compatible? Maybe I'm starting to mix things up....

 

Well, thanks for the info anyway We seem to have diverted from the main topic at hand I recently got myself a G&P M16A3 since I have no AEGs in my possession before that can play outdoors in Hong Kong (my +50 rps 1J HK416 is still in pieces, waiting for someone to get me some sorbothane so I can adjust the 6mm AOE that I have >< so I won't be getting the Gold Cup anymore, no funds Hopefully someone else can chip in about its quality

[vilerk]

Mine arrived today. First impressions were not bad. It was solid, recoil spring was strong, and the slide cycles very crisply and smoothly. Slide has some rattle, but compared to other clone GBBs, its more noticeable, maybe clankier, due to the material of the slide. Trigger pull could be a little crisper. No half-cock? Slide was well oiled, but the lower was filled with grease. After cleaning and reoiling everything, fired a mag. Blowback is pretty strong for a stock pistol. Shots curve a little because the hop arm is bent to one side.

The stirrup needed some filing to fit the 5KU trigger I bought. And Tercel mags are not compatible, they are a couple of millimeters too short and don't lock in. Shame that they are a better design too, using a screw to mount the bottom seal instead of 2 pins like the Army.