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Glock 17 IPSC gun?


Kunlun

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Is that the FAB Defence mount ?

 

I pulled in a universal mount that dosen't really work well on a glock, (single side plate mounted to lower frame rail)

 

Got mine dialled in for body shots at 40m with .28s on iron sights, still got the urge to try another mount, i should have got one like yours Senor Bear.

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Small update: after my refund from AirsoftHQ I ordered the gun @ Fire Support and it should arrived monday! Also ordered the Airsoft Surgeon Salient Arms slide @ Boomarms :)

 

@ Senor Bear: The sight does look a bit too high for IPSC but should work for skirmishing :)

 

I will do some IPSC with iron sights for now, also ordered a Element MRDS but want to practice with iron sights first ;)

Will keep you guys updated, got so many upgrade parts just lying around here >_<

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Found a Caspian slide @ RSOV so I ordered that one together with a Guarder black frame! Also, is there any good assembly video/guide lolz? I got my upgrade parts lying around here but I have no experience with Glocks. Barrel, bucking etc are no problem, it's the frame I have no experience with.

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Soooo ...

 

I finally gathered most of my upgrade stuff, so far I got:

 

Nine ball recoil spring guide pro (with buffers)

PDI 6.01 palsonite barrel

Nine ball HU bucking

SA steel recoil spring 200%

PDI piston head

Gunsmodify zero hammer

Shooters design 150% hammer spring

Shooters design enhanced magazine gasket

 

Any remarks so far? Got a metal slide on it's way and I hope I can start assembling it than :)

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Soooo ...

 

I finally gathered most of my upgrade stuff, so far I got:

 

Nine ball recoil spring guide pro (with buffers)

PDI 6.01 palsonite barrel

Nine ball HU bucking

SA steel recoil spring 200%

PDI piston head

Gunsmodify zero hammer

Shooters design 150% hammer spring

Shooters design enhanced magazine gasket

 

Any remarks so far? Got a metal slide on it's way and I hope I can start assembling it than :)

 

Yikes. Your gun is gonna be short stroked right? Add the SAPH enchanced muzzle spring too; you'll need the heavier spring to make sure the nozzle pulls back in time to chamber a new bb into the gun.

 

Also, you haven't bought the stuff yet right? I am mistaken when I first told you to get the 200% recoil spring. I've never played IPSC before, so I focused on using the strongest spring to achieve the fastest slide cycle speed.....which, intuitively I'm correct, but the fact that the 200% spring will mean greater resistance pushing the slide backwards and forwards will mean your gun will 'rock' back and forth more when you shoot; which is not good if you want to do double-taps on the same spot over and over again.

 

I spoke with an IPSC player two days ago when I visited his shop, and he told me that he uses a dual spring system for his slide cycle. The part you'll need is something along the concept of this:

 

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/sa-steel-recoil-spring-guide-for-tm-g17-2nd-level-spring.html

 

I'm not sure whether AIP make them either. But basically you have a shorter and stiff spring near the chamber area of the recoil rod, and a weak longer spring spanning the end of one the stiff spring to the end of the slide near the muzzle. What happens is when you shoot; the slide movement rearwards is very fast because it compresses the weaker spring first. The lack of resistance in the initial movement of the slide means that it will be faster than just shoving in the 200% spring. Once it fully compresses the weak spring, the slide will start compressing the stiffer, shorter spring (significantly; there's always a bit of compression of the smaller spring as the slide moves back). The stiffer, shorter spring is VERY strong, and as such like a spring bumper it can absorb the momentum of the slide moving backwards and push the slide return quickly back to battery as well since the weaker, longer spring will not have enough energy to do so.

 

This allows you the benefits of having almost zero recoil as the recoil is mitigated by the short spring (compared to slamming the slide end against the rear part of the guide rod if you used 1 spring only) and also reduces the forward shaking you get once the slide slams forwards. Another benefit is that you can pull the slide to chamber a bb with little resistance especially if you run a cocking handle. The slide cycle should be VERY fast if you also short stroke it as well.

 

If you are going to buy the SAPH dual recoil spring I suggest you pre-compress the original marui spring first by leaving the gun slide locked to the rear for a few days. This will weaken the original spring. Then, fit the longer weaker spring into the gun and start to tune the recoil spring system by adding the desired amount of buffers first (SAPH makes them) and then chopping down the weaker spring until you get the slide cycling action you want. Be careful of chopping too much of the spring though; you might not be able to return to battery if you do too much I would think.

 

One problem with this mod is that you might not be able to slide lock since near the very end of the slide cycle the slide will hit a very high resistive force pushing it forwards as it compresses the stiffer spring. But given that IPSC shooters count their shots and most disable the slide lock that should not be an issue for you.

 

Another thing you might need is to protect your magazine base when you drop them for speed reloads. Nineball make rubber mag bases and so does Magpul but those will break or wear down after an amount of mag drops. How much drops can you do? I have no idea. The IPSC guy I spoke with cannot remember either; but since he trains every week he probably drops his mag A LOT. He said the only indestructible mag base for the Glock is the AIP Aluminium one, which will get dented and lose it's surface finishing but they will hold up to abuse. Problem with that is the price....see here:

 

http://www.aipairsoft.com/aip/modules/zox/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=33_36&products_id=152

 

Now, back to the springs....I'm not sure if I remember this correctly but I think I've read that p226 springs are the same as the Glock springs, at least in diameter. If you want to keep your stock Marui spring at it's normal strength and not pre-compress it, I suggest you get this instead if what I remembered above is true:

 

http://www.tokyo-model.com.hk/ecshop/goods.php?id=8686

 

Just run the 70% one. Maybe even pre-compress it to weaken it further. Oh yeah, if you start cutting springs down to size you'll need to change your short stroke buffers by adding more to compensate for the loss of spring material.

 

 

Hope that helps!

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Waaah, lots of information! :D

 

Spring guide:

I already bought the parts yeah ... Is it worth all the work instead of using the Nineball spring guide which already has buffers installed? Since I already bought the 9ball spring guide I will install that one first, if I have the need for a faster cycling speed I will definitely try your method. So the 200% recoil spring is probably a bad idea? Might just order the 2nd level spring and the buffers if I order the muzzle spring.

 

Muzzle spring:

this one http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/sa-steel-200-enhanced-strong-muzzle-spring-2pcs-for-glock-series-gbb.html correct? :)

 

Magazine bases:

we're doing all this in a room that's being rented, the floor is concrete so for now if we drop our magazines we drop them in boxes with foam in them but on the long term I will look into them

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for all the information!!!

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Waaah, lots of information! :D

 

Spring guide:

I already bought the parts yeah ... Is it worth all the work instead of using the Nineball spring guide which already has buffers installed? Since I already bought the 9ball spring guide I will install that one first, if I have the need for a faster cycling speed I will definitely try your method. So the 200% recoil spring is probably a bad idea? Might just order the 2nd level spring and the buffers if I order the muzzle spring.

 

Muzzle spring:

this one http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/sa-steel-200-enhanced-strong-muzzle-spring-2pcs-for-glock-series-gbb.html correct? :)

 

Magazine bases:

we're doing all this in a room that's being rented, the floor is concrete so for now if we drop our magazines we drop them in boxes with foam in them but on the long term I will look into them

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for all the information!!!

 

The recoil spring isn't a 'bad' idea per say. I'm getting a HK3P glock soon and I also want a very fast slide return so I went with the 200% spring with the rubber buffers method. Pin-point accuracy isn't what I need as I use the gun for skirmishing but it's just that the dual spring system is something I learned from the IPSC guy I spoke with and I get why they do that kinda setup so that as long as the stance and grip is rigid you can probably double-tap 1 hole on a target assuming the bb quality is good and you don't get huge fluctuations with fps.

 

The Nineball part should suffice, I don't even know whether the NB one will be better than the dual spring setup honestly. :P Oh yeah thats the muzzle spring you linked.

 

Anyway the whole recoil dual spring system thing I wrote about is just something I wanted to share with you after I learned it off an IPSC dude. They used it in hicapas so I see why not use it in the Glocks as well. If 1 spring and buffers will do the trick I'm sure that guy will use it too since I can see he's won awards in HK for IPSC. There's probably some benefits he saw that was greater than using just 1 spring (like the lower slide resistance when he pulls the cocking handle, etc.).

 

So, just try your build for now and keep the idea of the dual spring system in your head :P If you ever have the money to experiment further to improve your IPSC gun you've at least have an idea on where to start :)

 

Wish you best of luck dude! :P Please keep us updated too :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Allright, small update: still waiting for my slide to come in and I just made an order @ EhobbyAsia:

SA strong muzzle spring

SA spring guide

 

I can always experiment with them ^^

 

I also bumped into this: http://www.airsoftglobal.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=634_639&products_id=15145 Looks interesting ... Now just to find someone who is capable of installing all the parts haha :D

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Allright, small update: still waiting for my slide to come in and I just made an order @ EhobbyAsia:

SA strong muzzle spring

SA spring guide

 

I can always experiment with them ^^

 

I also bumped into this: http://www.airsoftglobal.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=634_639&products_id=15145 Looks interesting ... Now just to find someone who is capable of installing all the parts haha :D

 

That thing is new :P It came out a couple of days ago in kwong wah street here in HK (street price HKD 185 for silver/black trigger). My friend at Redwolf also received new Guns Modify samples and the trigger was included. I'm gonna get one myself too; it comes with 3 trigger safety colours, silver, blakc and red, no matter what the trigger colour is.

 

I had a discussion via PM with RacingManiac here on Arnies and he believes the trigger does the same thing as the SAPH adjustment trigger bar thingy. The SAPH part's been out of stock for a while now and I don't see it being stocked in the future since the local store that the SAPH office directed me to go buy their springs haven't stocked the trigger bar too.

 

Basically what RacingManiac thinks it does is to remove the slack at start of the trigger pull (before the sear is tripped) and cannot adjust for overtravel. The SAPH part should do the same.

 

If you absolutely want to remove the slack you can just fit a piece of plastic where the trigger bar is to shim the trigger backwards before the sear is tripped. That's the cheap way of doing it. Otherwise get the GunsModify trigger....fitting the red trigger safety piece would probably look good on your IPSC glock XD Plus it's metal, so if you've got a thing for metal triggers there you go :P

 

I'll be getting my Glock build done very soon, parts lists includes:

 

 

Externals

HK3P Glock 17

Airsoft Surgeon Diamond Extended Magazine Catch

GunsModify Extended Slide Stop for Marui G17/18C

 

 

Internals

Modify Hop Rubber

Tanio Koba Hop Twist Barrel

SA Steel 200% Enhanced Strong Recoil Spring

SA Recoil Buffer for Marui Glock

Proud Enhanced Floating Valve Spring

Airsoft Surgeon Enhanced Nozzle and Piston Head

SA Steel 200% Enhanced Strong Muzzle Spring

SA Enhanced Hammer Spring

SA Adjustable Trigger Lever for Marui Glock 17

GunsModify ZERO Hammer for Marui G17

GunsModify Adjustable Trigger (Black) for Marui Glock 17

 

Magazines

WE 22 Rds Standard Magazine for G17 * 2

First Rubber Magazine End (3 set)

 

The gun is designed to be a CQB Glock where I have everything set for speed and weapons manipulation. The extended mag catch and slide release will aid in reloads (the slide release is value-added, I rack the slide instead of the using the slide release anyway) and everything inside the gun (probably bar the recoil spring setup) is done to aid in increasing the fps and slide cycle speed and smoothness.

 

The mags I decided not to upgrade with the enhanced gaskets that SD makes and don't want to add high flow valves yet to keep costs down. Only thing I'm adding at the rubber mag base plates so that the mags can be dropped on a hard surface from neck height (where my gun is generally when I'm doing a reload) without damaging the mags too much.

 

TK Twist barrel to increase the effective range of the bb plus the modify hop rubber for higher fps boost (like the NB one) and it should be better than the stock rubber WE or HK3P uses in their guns. Surprisingly enough the Modify rubber is damn cheap compared with other types and is very well made (HKD 61 at WGC shop for me, which is just HKD 1 more expensive than a King Arms rubber at DENTrinity...and the KA one is the cheapest if you disregard the no-name ACM brands).

 

Hopefully my build list above gives readers some ideas on upgrading TM glocks :P

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Looks promising! I also got in contact via Joe Lau with someone who uses a glock as racegun. He is also working @ SA Production House and he has all SAPH parts in his Glock ^^

 

I am just waiting now for all my parts to arrive so I can start assembling. Btw, once you got the HK3P Glock, please do a review! I am looking for a cheaper glock to use as sidearm for skirms and I got upgrade parts lying around here anyway .. :P

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Removing the slack form the trigger is a very easy thing to do, i did on my G34 a long time ago with a piece of rubber, here's a pic of my example:

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss66/Firefly0/Marui%20G34%20SC/Imagem0281.jpg

 

@intinerious

 

Can you tell how good the GunModify hammer is? Does it really smooth the slide movement and do you feel comfortable using a steel hammer with sear made of Marui's pot metal?

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Removing the slack form the trigger is a very easy thing to do, i did on my G34 a long time ago with a piece of rubber, here's a pic of my example:

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss66/Firefly0/Marui%20G34%20SC/Imagem0281.jpg

 

@intinerious

 

Can you tell how good the GunModify hammer is? Does it really smooth the slide movement and do you feel comfortable using a steel hammer with sear made of Marui's pot metal?

 

I'm not going to use a TM, I'm going to mod everything inside the HK3P copy of the TM G17 :P

 

As for the trigger, I didn't buy it yet; don't have time within these couple of days to go get them (and Kulun they are being sold out VERY quickly even in HK's local retail, last time I went to Tokyo Model which was about a week ago...so a couple of days since the Gunsmodify trigger came out they only had 1 silver trigger left in their store). I'm getting it off a friend that works in one of the stores so I can wait for it.

 

I've got the HK3P Glock already. First impressions....well it's a good Glock, that's all I can say. There's so much grease in the hop up though that I'd need to clean everything with detergent and warm water before I can really test the gun to it's true potential as a stock weapon. I've never played with the TM glock myself btw, so I can't really do a comparison.

 

Oh and I chronoed it today, it's averaging 0.81J chronoed with KSC 0.25g bbs in 10 shots. I don't think the hop up was on at all as it ###### out 2 bbs when I was testing it; so I had to shove 2 more back into the mag to get the 10 shot average.

 

Those interested in the HK3P PX4 (which IMO feels better than the Glock, but I got the Glock anyway since I have OCD when it comes to upgrading and the PX4 doesn't have a lot of aftermarket support :P) it shoots an average of 0.79J with 10 shots of KSC 0.25g bbs.

 

I'll write a review (which should encompass the WE G17 as well since it's identical except for the trades, and the Socom Gear Timberwolf as I highly suspect that the internals are the same too!) when I have time, but I assure you I'll be writing a review here on Arnies :) I'll update you guys once I have the review completed :D

 

EDIT: Richard Chan at Wargame Outlet, who is basically the 'retailer' for SAPH products, did the same thing as you Firefly0, except he used those plastic band thingys (used a cheap handcuffs sometimes...I dunno what they are called right now, the name escapes me O_o) and he wrapped one of them at the same position as your rubber 'shim'. That's the cheap (but functional :D) way of doing it without the need to use the SAPH adjustable trigger bar. I'm not entirely sure what the GunsModify trigger adjusts so I'll keep you guys updated.

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I just installed it. If you look at the picture in GunsModify's website here:

 

http://www.gunsmodify.com/en/product/detail-id-32.html

 

The last picture, there's a large screw where the trigger is. If you adjust that screw inwards it prevents the trigger bar from rotating too much (if you get what I mean? the trigger bar rotates with the trigger if you take it out of the gun and move it about). If the rotational distance is shortened then the trigger will rest farther back. I'll take a pic later for you (I installed the red safety too; looks nice :) the black one looks...normal I guess? For some reason I can't fit the silver one in, but that's probably because I was rushing the install, not a parts problem). The trigger was slightly too fat for the HK3P inner frame so I had to file down the width of it by a tiny bit. Might be a drop in for Marui though.

 

The trigger removes all the pre-sear trip travel so the hammer sits farther back. GunsModify released an install manual:

 

http://www.gunsmodify.com/en/news/detail-id-27.html

 

Should give you guys more details on how it works :)

 

Show you guys a pic later. If I don't reply back within a week gimme a poke :P busy with research at the moment! :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

IMG_1410.jpg

 

Parts I intend to use:

 

Guarder original frame

SAPH fluo sights

SAPH grip tape

9Ball HU rubber

SAPH recoil spring 200%

SAPH recoil spring guide

SAPH trigger level spring 150%

SAPH muzzle spring 200%

PDI piston head

PDI 6.01 palsonite barrel

Gunsmodify zero hammer

Gunsmodify extended slide stop

Shooters design hammer spring 150%

Shooters design enhanced mag gaskets

Airsoft Surgeon extended mag catch

CNC Caspian slide

 

Also got a TSC cocking handle and Element MRDS but not sure which would work best: iron sights or dot, I will have to check for myself.

 

I will order the Gunsmodify adjustable trigger once it is restocked.

 

Any comments on the build?

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Looking good Kunlun.

 

The red dot V fluo iron sights will come down to what you get on with, and how you finally intend to play or use the pistol. The dot will take some getting used to.

 

I want mine for gaming as IPSC dosen't exist anywhere near me, just got a battered TM G17 for the mags and as spares, but a MAG spring kit and a rummage through the parts tin has got it fully working again as a back up piece. The flou sights will most likely end up on this one

 

I was looking at the AIP flou iron sights and guide rod/spring and also there extended mag catch, as it will all come from the same shop (my first overseas order) i was going to get the ACM Glock scope mount but put off by the unexpected quailty that will turn up. FAB defence mounts are on my list as i can get within the UK.

The battered G17 is also going to be my try out for some stippling.

 

Enjoying the thread, slowly getting mine sorted, some great information in here, and good reading.

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Got everything installed but there is a problem with the slide :( I guess those Davidson slides are a hit or miss and looks like I got a miss ... The end of the slide wont fit so I will have to dremel a bit and make it work.

 

Will keep ya guys updated.

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