Medic rules ... aka The "Two Lives" REGEN Rules

[FireKnife]

Same, yes it is an incentive to try harder to not get seen, but it is also a case of 'do i go now, will i get them all, or be out for ages' so it has a balance. Plus sometimes as people are slow to respond sometimes, i sprint bag to the regen, tag in, run back to them and do it so quick they don't expect it and out they go.

 

'FireKnife'

[Number5]

I really like the medic rule and enjoy games that use it. I've played several Milsim and none milsim games with variations on this theme and some have worked well, others...less well. KISS attitudes are the winners.

 

All valid posts about the attitude of some airsofters (speaking for the UK) who turn up for the spray and pray type of game, the kind who love hicaps, ignoring hits they think no one can see etc, it's one of those things that will almost certainly never go away, even as new players become more experienced, there will always be new players (though some 'long in the tooth' players are just as bad for this).

 

Different people like different types of play, have different levels of personal honor, as long as i go home at the end of the day knowing ive played and not cheated im happy, plus when you get the better of a less honorable player, it feels good.

 

Medic rules are more suited for Milsim games but they can enrich a Saturday skirmish aswell.

 

A few ideas I've thrown around with my team on medic rules, the bandage in particular, is to use a white Velcro band which is made up to look like a CAT (that's combat application touniquet not feline ) and use this in place of a bandage, plus to up the amount of time needed to medic to 10 seconds plus the time it takes to apply the CAT. Remember, you read it here first!

 

Also, Love the idea of simulated medical treatment!

 

I want to reiterate part of USCMs initial post and say I think the idea of a red hit bandage is an excellent one and UK players should adopt this!

[gisburn20]

I played my first game at UCAP's Sandpit site last weekend and thought I would share my experience of their medic rule.

 

Both teams wear broad (4inches?) purpose made site issued neoprene and velcro armbands on the LEFT arm, yellow for one team and orange for the other.

 

 

 

When you are hit , you stop, stand/sit still , put your hand up and shout medic.

 

For a friendly player to medic you, they have to reach you (they cant move you around) take your arm band off your left arm and put it on your right arm.

 

When you are hit a second time or bleed out ( no set time limit ) you take off your brightly coloured armband and hold it above your head to signify you are out.

 

Walk back to respawn , then put the band back on your left arm.

 

 

 

These simple rules worked really well, no mucking about , you could tell at a glance whether someone was on their first or second life.

 

There were no bandages to lose, no knots to tie, it still gave a real sense of urgency medicing under fire, and if you were a long way behind enemy lines

 

with no friendlies about , you could just bleed out immediately and start walking , this happed to me a few times - the site is massive, they have 1000 acres to play over-

 

Just my 2p , but I will be going back there ASAP (even with a 220 mile round trip to get there)

 

Jim

[uscmCorps]

Those rules do sound quite robust. Not a bad idea at all. Just gotta find those armbands or have them made. Thanks for sharing Jim!

[sigma3]

What rules are "right" for your games really depends to a huge amount on who your players are, and how much they can be trusted. I am trying to develop a set of rules right now that is both simple, but also punitive towards those who rush into death, for a much deeper "milsim" experience. In other words, if you die, you can expect to miss at least 15 minutes of action (and actually probably much more than that, as you wander to the respawn spot).

 

I know that in a general setting this would never work at all, but I have played in games with small numbers of people where people called their hits from MINES even when they KNEW no one else was around and that they would be out of the game for HOURS. They did this because they respected the other players. To me I would rather play with a very small, core group of players who respected each other like that, and could be trusted to follow a set of rules designed to encourage careful movement and thought.

[ninja master of coffee]

I've been playing mostly filmsim games recently, these have medic rules though they differ a little from the ones detailed (two bandages rather than one, if you're shot after number two, blown up or shot while being mediked, you're KIA instantly) there is also a two minuet rather than five minuet bleedout time. I have to say they greatly improve the flow of the game, it's less frustrating for a number of reasons, one of which is that if you're attacking a fortified enemy, shooting them won't mean they instantly bugger off to regen and then pop back in the game, however you do have to be aware that their team mates maybe trying to medic them, possibly leading to a sudden reverse. The fact that there are far fewer borring trudges back to a regen point the other side of the site really helps too. I did recently go to a normal sunday skirmish, it was actually kind of depressing to have normal skirmish rules, being able to medic players and the added factors that brings in really does make the game more fun, not that I had a bad time on the sunday skirmish, it just felt like taking a step back, frankly I doub't I'll really bother with games that arn't milsim or filmsim now. I think you can (and indeed I have been to games where this has been done) include medic rules at a sunday skirmish, the last time I went down to battle lakes F&O were running medic rules even though it was a fairly large sunday skirmish, it worked, it's not ludicrously complex but a lot of sites just seem very reluctant to include them.

[FireKnife]

I am too used to attending sites with rather badly explained respawns and respawn locations. Saying it is by the pillbox when you have two pillboxes, one closer to the enemy than the other and then getting shouted at when you are respawning closer to them. But hey this is an issue that always seems to happen up here and before people say choose somewhere else that is all the options i have so i have to live with it.

 

Would be good to try this out at the new local though, seeing as it is a site where we are given full suggestion rights for ideas and such, unless the majority vote it as a no, which due to them being there for the fun, not the winning, means most things are ok.

 

'FireKnife'

[1st Commando]

F&O Midlands employs the medic/regen rule on all sites .

 

First hit you wait for a medic (anyone can medic you with a count of 10 seconds on the shoulder )

 

If you do not get a medic within 5 mins you bleed out

 

you do not get a medic from grenades, knife kills or 203s

 

you also go straight to regen if "through and through killed" while being mediced

 

second hit is straight to regen where you come back in as a "fresh re-enforcement" with a fresh medic hit

 

The 5 minute bleedout is there to ensure your killer gains some advantage by taking you out of the game long enough to make some advance .

 

The bleedout time is sometimes shortened on extremely hot or extremely cold/wet days .

 

The maximum forced time out of game is therefore 5 mins which is better than "hit and out" types of play but a bit longer than "straight regen" which often just locks up in a stalemate with no team managing to gain much advantage due to having fresh reserves constantly re-enforcing the line

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

F&O Midlands employs the medic/regen rule on all sites .

 

First hit you wait for a medic (anyone can medic you with a count of 10 seconds on the shoulder )

 

If you do not get a medic within 5 mins you bleed out

 

you do not get a medic from grenades, knife kills or 203s

 

you also go straight to regen if "through and through killed" while being mediced

 

second hit is straight to regen where you come back in as a "fresh re-enforcement" with a fresh medic hit

 

The 5 minute bleedout is there to ensure your killer gains some advantage by taking you out of the game long enough to make some advance .

 

The bleedout time is sometimes shortened on extremely hot or extremely cold/wet days .

 

The maximum forced time out of game is therefore 5 mins which is better than "hit and out" types of play but a bit longer than "straight regen" which often just locks up in a stalemate with no team managing to gain much advantage due to having fresh reserves constantly re-enforcing the line

 

Do you get people arguing over how long someone's been out?

[Jibbity]

We ran these medic rules this weekend, pretty fun.

[uscmCorps]

Do you get people arguing over how long someone's been out?

We haven't seen arguments over that at our games. Quite frankly I think if someone does less than the required amount of time it's still better than if they hadn't called themselves out at all. At least calling themselves out for any period of time will allow the opposition some time to chip away and hopefully break through the firing line or the enemy's defenses. I'd prefer that over an entire group of terminators who no matter what you do, they will not die, they will never stop, and basicly renders the game frustrating and generally not fun.

 

We ran these medic rules this weekend, pretty fun.

Nice. Was it a big group or small group? Have you guys run theses rules before or did someone suggest them?

[1st Commando]

Do you get people arguing over how long someone's been out?

Rarely as one of our main rules is that players are NOT allowed to shout out rules related issues to each other as it just decends into a slagging match.

 

If a player has an issue they get a good description and take the issue to a marshal. If the issue is not reported then there is nothing we can do about it and therefore whinging about it later will do you no good .

 

Our marshals will follow up accusations by ensuring we all know so that that "problem" can be watched by either hiviz or embedded marshals

[Counting Count]

Success of this ruleset (medic) can in a lot of cases be proscribed to the maturity rating of those playing the game, even when they are manditory on a site or site.

 

Im a player who likes things like this and would use them regularly but in the situations where there are a high proportion of new and inexperienced players they are not always practical other than the place both hands on the casualties shoulders and count to x.

 

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2

[Jibbity]

Nice. Was it a big group or small group? Have you guys run theses rules before or did someone suggest them?

 

It was a small group, varying from 10 to 20 throughout the day. It is a quality, close knit group, so we didn't really have any issues rule wise. There were some awkward moments that we need to iron out, inadvertent meat shielding and such.

 

I really like that it adds another element to the game, it really drew out some of the more timid players into more dynamic play.

 

We had discussed previously, but were definitely inspired by this post

[uscmCorps]

Fantastic. When used properly by consenting and mature like-minded players, these rules definitely add a whole new dimension to the game. The overall spirit of the game changes too. It's hard to go back to regular games once you've grown accustomed to how much fun (and intense) these rules are when done right by good players.

[FireKnife]

One thing is that i find with these rule sets for re-gens etc.

 

It is not always the inexperienced players that cause issues, many times i have seen regulars at a site throw a hissy as they can't play the rules that they are used to. Many of them, when you suggest a new rule to stop all the walking to re-gens and back just sit and moan, thinking that the one thing they have always been doing will work.

 

Really these are best with that holy grail of players, those willing to try anything new to improve the game and give honest opinions on it. One thing i like is going to a site, a suggestion is made for a change of pace and it is looked at by every player to make sure it is equal and fair.

 

'FireKnife'

[balki]

In Slovenia almost all games are with medic and 2 lives (means you can be healed 2 times ,when hit 3rd time instant dead and walk to respawn)and 10min bleedout. We use medic bandage for healing (medic must heal for 1 minute if medic shoots when healing must start 1 min again).Similar rules are used in all international games(Hungary,Slovakia,Czech Republic,Croatia).We use dead rags (shoot until orange).

[WhiteHawksan]

I don't think we're so much a 'holy grail' of players, but just open-minded. There is no perfect game, but things can be improved a lot on the most basic, shoot and respawn scenario

[uscmCorps]

I've seen plenty of players bitching and moan at new rules. That will always happen. The trick is to drag those obstinate players kicking and screaming (or tell them to GTFO) through a couple games and they'll realize that these rules are actually positive improvements to game play and flow of the scenarios. If they don't like it tell them to go elsewhere. It's 1 hour (+/-) of their life. Give it a try. That said, I've been introduced to plenty of rules that after playing them I still concluded they sucked. These "two lives" rules, the way they've been laid out, don't suck (IMO).

[FireKnife]

I don't think we're so much a 'holy grail' of players, but just open-minded. There is no perfect game, but things can be improved a lot on the most basic, shoot and respawn scenario

 

If i chuck in the phrases 'good sportspeople' and 'never cheat' then surely that is a name for those kind of people

 

But it always makes me laugh when players use the 'oh but we have always done it this way' line. Great but have you even tried anything different, 99% of the time it is a no and a flat refusal to do so, even if you can explain and prove how it is better.

 

'FireKnife'

[WhiteHawksan]

people fear change, some more than others. But the basics is usually the same,

 

If it aint broke don't fix it.

 

Why improve something if you can doddle along blindly?

[FireKnife]

Why improve something if you can doddle along blindly?

 

Because it will make it more enjoyable. It is like business that potter along with old computers, for a one off cost of a few hours of your time and £1000, you will have made £5000 by the end of the year in profit. Same with airsoft, with five mins of your time, you will have got back 1hr of actual playing time in field by the end of the year

 

'FireKnife'

[uscmCorps]

But it always makes me laugh when players use the 'oh but we have always done it this way' line. Great but have you even tried anything different, 99% of the time it is a no and a flat refusal to do so, even if you can explain and prove how it is better.

At the events I go to it's the event organizers and game staff that define the game rules, not the players. If players don't wish to play by those rules, they can take their business elsewhere. And those that leave get to hear from players that did choose to stay how well the rules did or did not work. Doesn't that approach work over there?

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

It honestly depends on the site. First&Only sites seem to be pretty good, with a no-nonsense attitude and a ruleset that matches.

[FireKnife]

At the events I go to it's the event organizers and game staff that define the game rules, not the players. If players don't wish to play by those rules, they can take their business elsewhere. And those that leave get to hear from players that did choose to stay how well the rules did or did not work. Doesn't that approach work over there?

 

Depends on the site as stated above. One site is basically open to 'come up with an idea as site owner can't be bothered' others are rigid and set rules while some, the worst, are right this is team A, this is team B, here are rules so basic a toddler could follow them, now shoot each other . Some sites though have a captive market so can get away with what they like, and if the players don't like it the next nearest site is 60-80 miles away.

 

'FireKnife'