Brigg Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) After a very long wait, I finally got my hands on KWA's new LM4 PTR. What follows are my initial impressions after owning it for 1 day, and using it in a few rounds of CQB. But first some pictures: First thing I noticed about this rifle is the good heft it has to it. With the magazine in, it weighs a little over 7 pounds. Not by any means "heavy" but it has a good solid weight to it. I also noticed how well the parts fit together. almost no wobble to the upper receiver at all. much better then the WE M16a1 I previously owned. There was one small disappointment in that the carry handle is plastic. Here are some close ups of the receiver: The material of the outer parts feels very sturdy and solid. very similar to the material used on the frames of KWA pistols. The plastic used in the grips and stock feels nice and solid, though Ive replaced mine with furniture from an LMT, since foregrip furniture on RS grips has a certain quality to the surface that airsoft guns never seem to replicate. The foregrip and stock were easily interchangeable with RS ones though I have no tried the pistol grip yet. Now on to the internals. This is where the LM4 really impressed me. When tested with a magnet, all of the trigger set internals seem to be made of steel, with the exception of the trigger itself, which appears to be aluminum. This more then makes up for the plastic carry handle in my opinion as that is an easily replaced part. There doesnt seem to be any need to upgrade or replace any of these internals. The bolt stop functions flawlessly if a bit stiff. It seems to be superior to the WE style, as it does not rely on a tiny nub of metal to stop the bolt. The bolt carrier group is also solid steel. and all one piece that I can tell, though I have not tried to remove the gas keys. It has some nice weight to it which likely is what accounts for the heavy recoil the gun has. The loading nozzle itself has an interesting design. instead of being one solid piece, there is an outer and inner portion. The inner portion being some type of metal, with the outer portion being plastic. Hopefully this will prevent broken nozzles from ever occurring. On to the magazines: The magazine has a similar weight to a real, loaded AR15 magazine. and is only slightly off by a hair in size. The major difference is that there are grooves cut into the magazine, to fit matching grooves in the magazine well. This prevents any real magazines from being inserted. Or any other GBB mags for that matter. The only thing that slightly bugs me about the whole gun, actually, is this: Like the KJW M4, the forward receiver pin area on the upper receiver has "ears" where the trunnion fits in. This only bothers me because these ears broke on my KJW M4 and I fear the same may happen here. To avoid this, both receiver pins should be removed, and the upper receiver never swung forward with any force when disassembling. Now, about the performance. While the KWA website lists this gun as firing at 410 FPS with .2 BB's, mine chrono'd at around 355 with .2's. I was more then happy with this as I play indoor primarily, and was able to give the gun a quick test run last night. The accuracy seems to be about average. at 30-ish feet I was hitting a roughly 1 inch grouping, though this was not be any means thorough and proper testing. It seems to be more then accurate enough for play and I intend on repeating the accuracy test when I get some more time. Gas consumption seems reasonable as well, and the recoil is significant, especially on auto. I was able to get 2 magazines out of one fill of gas. I was also easily able to dump the entire magazine on full auto with no noticeable cooldown effect on the ROF. This was all done at room temperature, indoors. Overall, I am impressed with the high level of quality in this gun, and look forward to getting into some more games with it. As no spare magazines were available at the time that I played last night, I could only do a so-so test run. Once I have some additional mags I will be able to properly test it in game. Edited May 12, 2012 by Brigg 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
weekenny Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Very nice, how many bb's do the mags hold? How's the hop? Is the inner barrel aeg compatable? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted May 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) Magazines hold 40 rounds. Im not sure about the hopup since i only played with it briefly indoors, at night. but Ill test it out next time. As for AEG compatibility, I have no idea. I have never owned an AEG nor do I intend to. I only run GBB guns, so my knowledge of AEGs is limited at best. Edited May 12, 2012 by Brigg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
weekenny Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Ok thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) Steel internals, steel bolt, HELL YEAH! The RS stock you put on, milspec I assume ? Another thing that came to mind is overall RS compatability. Considering all the hoops KWA had to go through to make it ATF approved then I would assume RS compat. has suffered ? Test everything you've got! Edited May 12, 2012 by NonEx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rvlyssup Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 The RS stock you put on, milspec I assume ? Inquiring minds too want to know. BTW, congrats on getting one! Which retailer in the U.S. has it already? Is that finish gray or is it just the flash? Sorry for the 20 ???s Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted May 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 yes, the stock is Mil-Spec, from an old LMT. the foregrip is also compatible with RS as I changed that as well. Only thing i havent tried is the pistol grip, sine I would only be replacing it with the same thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RayL Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Which retailer in the U.S. has it already? By foregrip, do you mean the handguards? Also, how does the stock fit? Loose? Tight? Just wondering if they went with a true milspec'd buffer tube size. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
emp3ror86 Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Do you guys aware of that this gun is basically a KSC M4? As most of the gun is TM Spec, milspec stocks are good to go, expect some wooble. Unless KWA changed that, as well. It is a pity the upper receiver is still the multi-pieced design. Brigg, can you scan some pages of the manual? The ones with the blown up diagrams and parts lists. Also could you show more pictures about the magazine? Unless one starts mindlessly increasing the recoil by adding heavier parts it is not likely to encounter any problem with the gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kullwarrior Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Do you guys aware of that this gun is basically a KSC M4? Some parts are enhanced. Hopup chamber is the new version Steel firing group Steel Bolt Carrier Quote Link to post Share on other sites
weekenny Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Any more details on the hop? Still interested in outer barrel fitment if the body etc is TM spec. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
emp3ror86 Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 It's funny that the KWA versions are equipped with the new hopup and I have not being able to order it from KSC since January. But the KWA one is now without questions one of the best GBB platforms available. You can see the new hopup in the KSC HK45 review topic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akiraspeedstar Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 I just wish the gun came with a VLTOR style upper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
weekenny Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 The hop looks good, the Magpul version looks sweet. But my KJW has been so reliable so it'd take someone to really test this platform to convince me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer750 Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Makes me even more excited for the eventual release of the Magpul version. Thanks for giving us a rundown on your GBBR, Briggs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kai_Wolf Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Likewise, I really would love to see someone test this gun to see how it compares to the KJ reliability. It seems the recoil on this one is going to be much greater. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted May 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Likewise, I really would love to see someone test this gun to see how it compares to the KJ reliability. It seems the recoil on this one is going to be much greater. Well, i previously owned a KJW M4. And while it was reliable shooting-wise, the receiver itself cracked and KJW never sent me a replacement even after months of emails back and forth. So as long as the actual externals on the KWA hold up, In my opinion it will be a better rifle. Oh, and as far as recoil goes, I think this has slightly more recoil then my KJW had, but thats just from memory as my KJW is a useless pile of parts now. I have a friend who still uses a KJW as his main weapon for games so Ill compare next time we both go to a game. Edited May 14, 2012 by Brigg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
weekenny Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 This looks to have a similarly made reciever unless its better cast they will need to alter it as KJW did. Sadly the latest KJW internal revisions are a step backwards so I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steve3057 Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) This looks like another WA clone to me just with heavily reinforced parts right out of the box at a cheaper price tag. They addressed the issues that the previous system has and seems to have tweaked somethings to make those go away. Will be interesting to watch this gun and see how it holds up once 10k+ rounds go through it. Edited May 16, 2012 by steve3057 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finbarqs Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Similar to the WA system, but probably not compatible. This is the system 7 right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
carabinero Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 This looks like another WA clone to me just with heavily reinforced parts right out of the box at a cheaper price tag. They addressed the issues that the previous system has and seems to have tweaked somethings to make those go away. Will be interesting to watch this gun and see how it holds up once 10k+ rounds go through it. Right on the money, I even think that these are and always were simply KSC rifles that have reinforcement treatment in the States for the US market... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greatwatermelon Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) Do you guys aware of that this gun is basically a KSC M4? Are you aware that KWA designed and manufactured the M4 GBBR for both KSC and KWA? Apparently Not. In fact, KSC is practically rebranding KWAs, by contributing little to no R&D. They are only able to release before KWA does because of their long term contract from working with KWA back in the days. I'm sure KWA, the designer and manufacturer could do better than what they made for KSC, especially after several generations of updates and improvements by the time it arrived here in the U.S. The KSC M4 GBBR can be seen as the very first generation of the M4 GBBR design... Talk about being outdated. Hence.. Some parts [on the KWA LM4] are enhanced. Hopup chamber is the new version Steel firing group Steel Bolt Carrier Not including redesigning to be ATF legal, various springs (i.e. buffer tube spring) were also enhanced on the KWA LM4 prior to its release to improve the performance and reliability. Edited May 17, 2012 by greatwatermelon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
emp3ror86 Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) In fact, KSC is practically rebranding KWAs, by contributing little to no R&D. They are only able to release before KWA does because of their long term contract from working with KWA back in the days. Apparently you are selling your ideas as facts. You should not. Edited May 17, 2012 by emp3ror86 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kullwarrior Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) Are you aware that KWA designed and manufactured the M4 GBBR for both KSC and KWA? Apparently Not. In fact, KSC is practically rebranding KWAs, by contributing little to no R&D. They are only able to release before KWA does because of their long term contract from working with KWA back in the days. I'm sure KWA, the designer and manufacturer could do better than what they made for KSC, especially after several generations of updates and improvements by the time it arrived here in the U.S. The KSC M4 GBBR can be seen as the very first generation of the M4 GBBR design... Talk about being outdated. Hence.. Ummm NO, KSC R&D the M4, KWA made it better with further R&D. KSC is NOT a rebrand of KWA. Historically KSC did all the R&D and KWA did the manufacturing. Last 4-5 years, KWA began their own R&D team, Kriss is an example of that. Go read up KWA central. Not including redesigning to be ATF legal, various springs (i.e. buffer tube spring) were also enhanced on the KWA LM4 prior to its release to improve the performance and reliability. Until someone have both side to side to compare I will say that's not the case, from reports, KWAUSA import the M4 and install upgrade, meaning core component is still the same. Just because you swap a baseplate from HK germany made to HK US made does not mean it's enhanced (in reference to US Heckler&Koch firearms and 922r) Edited May 17, 2012 by kullwarrior 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yellowjournalism Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 Is the buffer tube commercial or mil-spec? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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