KWA LM4 PTR GBB

[greatwatermelon]

I've had a few buddies of mine use KJW M4's since, at its time, it was the best offering around its price range, especially when its only other competitor was a WE... KJWs performed pretty reliably here in Southern California.

 

I'll see if I can get hands on one of the KJW's as well to compare it side by side with the KWA LM4 and WA M4, once my schedule frees up.

Edited May 23, 2012 by greatwatermelon

[rvlyssup]

A member on GGi reports his brand new LM4 has receiver wobble. Can anyone confirm if this is the norm or a fluke?

 

Its one of my pet peeves I'm afraid. Hopefully, the Magpul edition has none...

[bankz5152]

This looks like it may be my next rifle. However I really hope someone releases a new receiver for it as im not all the excited about having KWA written down the side in white..

[hitmanNo2]

Guns Modify will be making forged receivers for KSC with approved Colt trades (waiting for approval) Whether they will work with KWA, who knows. Personally I doubt there's really much difference between them.

[bankz5152]

Cheers, on top of that what I find wonderful is how GBBRs really are just getting better and better.

[dynamic_e]

Damn totally tempted to give one of these a try. I allready have a Marui EBB and it's super reliable, but have a desire for more noise and recoil. I've contemplated a asahi classic(I used to have an Asahi) but after getting the air rig and spending $50 + ship for each mag from japan, a loadout would put me over $1000 and I can't use them in semi only CQB games. A KWA with 5 mags would put me up around $600 which is alot but less then a classic.

 

I read that a number of users are experiencing broken hop teeth. I wonder if this will correct that issue as it's made for KSC. I dont think the KSC hop is modified much from the KWA.

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/guarder-ksc-m4-gbb-steel-hop-up-round.html

 

 

Has anyone compared the performance of one of these to a lightly modified G&P WOC?

[sacairsoftsn00py]

Got a chance to check one out. Gun is extremely well built. IMO, its more solid than the G&P WOC series. Upper and lower receiver mating is close to perfect but time will tell how it will be after its been taken down a bunch of times. G&P WOC M4 GBBs were solid out of the box but develops play after some time.

 

Nozzle tip is metal as well as the BB extractor. Rest of the face of the Bolt is polymer.

 

Top part of the magazine is plastic (this includes the feed lips). That's not necessarily bad as having plastic feed lips on the mag mean that the BBs wont get gouged when being chambered.

 

I'm not too sure about the BB extractor being metal...metal to plastic contact when chambering the BB isn't ideal IMO. They could have done away with it being plastic as it is chunky enough. Who knows, the initial version of the gun may have had a plastic nozzle and extractor that didn't hold up...thus the change in material for those two bits?

 

Hop bucking is different!!! I think its been noted. Im a huge fan of these as the NS2 and the pre-NS2 hop buckings were prone to swelling up. The way the hop is set up has been improved IMO. I believe this gun will be more resistant to developing swollen hop buckings which cause jamming issues.

 

A tad off topic. The hop bucking has the "firefly"/ KWA type nub (where the bb contacts the rubber). Yes, its the spongebob squarepants teeth type bucking. KWA has the new type hop adjustment system/ hop bucking on the KWA M4, KWA Tokarev, and KWA HK45.

 

Just as the feed lips on the KWA M4 mags are plastic...so are the ones found on the KWA Tokarev GBB's. The KWA HK45 mag however still has the plastic feed lips.

 

---------------------

 

I heard from the shop that I went to that the KWA will be releasing 38rd P-Mags for these guns later on. No ETA on the CQBR's yet.

 

I almost picked up a KWA LM4 GBBR yesterday but opted against it as the FPS fluctuated SO MUCH. The magazine however was starting to get cold however as I've put rounds through it. Still...

 

The gun chronoed a high of 415 and as low as 355 FPS with green gas and .20g BBs. Between the first three shots and the following rounds thereafter, the drop was about 10-20 FPS. As the magazine cooled down...it shot consistently in the 370 FPS range...often dipping into 360's....

 

Not sure about you guys but I'm spoiled when it comes to having consistent hop. Marui GBB pistols have been doing it since the adjustable hop came out on their pistols. Consistent FPS readings...consistent shot for shot trajectory.

 

I'm not going to knock the KWA M4 though as I have not personally shot it outdoors to check the shot for shot trajectory. I'm simply just turned off by the inconsistent FPS when BBs gets sent down range. Personally, I'm just going to hold onto my money and wait for the Tokyo Marui MP7 GBB to come out.

[weekenny]

I'd be interested to see the fps consistency and kick on a reasonable FPS ~340 on propane. I realise for this an NPAS kit will need to come out.

[sacairsoftsn00py]

Kenny. I believe that there are different versions just like the mp7s. Some may have the peg type flute valve which chrono at or under 350 fps. Then theres the standard bulb type rocket valve. Just add an o-ring to the peg valve and you get sub 340 fps out of the gun. just my thoughts. may or may not be so.

[akiraspeedstar]

Looks like the performance issues are starting, so far this is what people are reporting

1. Bolt not fully cycling
   
2. Wear upon the bolt
   
3. Bolt Catch not operating (during firing and racking)
   
4. Jamming (with BBs being smashed/shattered into the hopup and barrel)
   
5. Damaged feed lips from normal usage (also it seems they even arrived broken for one guy)
   
6. Damaged BB follower from normal usage
   
7. Leaking magazines (some can be fixed by cleaning/tightening, seems some can't)
   

[rvlyssup]

Looks like the performance issues are starting, so far this is what people are reporting

1. Bolt not fully cycling
   
2. Wear upon the bolt
   
3. Bolt Catch not operating (during firing and racking)
   
4. Jamming (with BBs being smashed/shattered into the hopup and barrel)
   
5. Damaged feed lips from normal usage (also it seems they even arrived broken for one guy)
   
6. Damaged BB follower from normal usage
   
7. Leaking magazines (some can be fixed by cleaning/tightening, seems some can't)
   

http://kwausa.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8679

[aznriptide859]

I can hear the moans and wails of KWA fanboys in the distance.

[emp3ror86]

I thought the heavy steel BCG is a stupid idea. Same on the metal nozzle. Looks like KWA managed to ruin a well working construction.

[Shinden]

Been awhile Arnie folks,

 

My take on the issues is one. Lube. Apparently the gun comes out of the box dry and also not worn in as well. The BCG nozzle not retracting is fault of either two things. Lack of lube (not silicone spray) on the nozzle and the inner walls of the upper reciever. This will fix two things: the bolt jamming BBs and wear.

 

Now as precaution I do oil the side of magazine lips with lube but this seems to help MAYBE to also avoid the left side of the magazine lip to be scrapped off.

 

The bolt catch issue is either two things. The magazine was not fully gassed. OR the mag catch lever inside the lower receiver has worn down or the BCG notch cut has worn down to a slanted shape to allow the BCG to slam forward.

 

The jamming issue is comes from lack of lube on the entire BCG, nozzle, and piston. It should solve that. Another possible case is maybe silicon spray into the hop up area is causing it to swell or either make the BB slip through and sit while the next BB chamberd slams into it causing the breakage.

 

The damaged BB follower has got to be the result of the steel nozzle slamming on an empty magazine. Now this is the case I see. 1) You inserted a empty mag, charged the bolt, let the bolt slam forward. The nozzle should scrape the follower. 2) not enough gas in the magazine while shooting causes the gun to NOT propel enough gas to lock the BCG back but instead slams into home on an empty mag. That second issue can be hard to avoid without properly gassing mags.

 

Leaking magazine got to be the Production line QA.

 

Also not listed, people had issues with the hop up gear snapping off. This is the metal quality used I am sure.

[kullwarrior]

 

I almost picked up a KWA LM4 GBBR yesterday but opted against it as the FPS fluctuated SO MUCH.

 

Every gas rifle besides Daytonagun external air are like that.

[Finbarqs]

compared with my inokatsu, the LM4 (on GG) shoots harder. But when using higher pressure gas (yellow gas) the Inokatsu shoots harder. This is with a 2011 Super bolt with the weight installed. Unfortunately, it felt a little smaller than my inokatsu, and didn't feel as well put together. quite frankly, it felt more like a toy than my Inokatsu did. The Ino M4 feels like a real AR, while the LM4 feels like a replica. The mag catch doesn't push all the way (there's something stopping it) and the selector doesn't have a really nice positive click when in position. Buffer Spring sound is really annoying and loud, and racking the bolt back doesn't feel as robust and it sounds "plastic-like" compared to the ino. There's a slight wobble, but it's not a big deal.

 

Granted the Ino is 1k and the LM4 is $300, i'd still say for anyone getting into GBBR's, this is the one to get! (Over WE). The nozzle sticking issue-- I thought that was a "by design" thing...

[sacairsoftsn00py]

Kjw m4 gbbrs fps readings behind the chrono showed very little fluctuation...very close to fluctuations found on tm pistols.

 

 

[Kai_Wolf]

I got a chance to game with the LM4 today. The recoil is amazing and the gas efficiency is equally amazing. I saw very little venting even on full magazine dumps. I did notice right away that the steel bolt was chopping bbs quite often, chipping and spitting out pieces like it was cool. Other than that, I enjoyed using it.

[kullwarrior]

Kjw m4 gbbrs fps readings behind the chrono showed very little fluctuation...very close to fluctuations found on tm pistols.

and how heavy is the KJW bolt? The thing has almost no recoil

[sacairsoftsn00py]

Almost. Like the kwa mp7.

 

If you also want to nitpick about it...broken upper receiver tabs...lower receiver detent pins (could be easily prevented by installing a cradle bolt carrier extension...bolt carrier elastic bands snapping...them waffle mags. Piston cup getting eaten up...again replaceable wih an o-ring version by cradle airsoft. Some people have hop up issues...others dont.

 

The gun was designed to run on 134a but people want to use green gas in it. Everything has its pros and cons. Everything breaks eventually.

 

Again...i have not shot the kwa m4 outside thestore so i cant comment on which one shoots best. I was simply commenting on the fps fluctuation i noticed from shooting it inside the shop...that particular part about the gun is enough for me to turn my head...walk away...and save my money for the upcoming tokyo marui mp7 gas blowback smg.

 

Yes...that gun probably wont have recoil too. But i dont care as surely, the gun will perform well.

[Brigg]

I had a KJW m4, and a friend of mine still runs his. The performance isn't really that different. The main difference I noticed was the ROF. the KJW is much slower on auto. I'll try to do a chrono test of both to compare next time I see my friend. Though, my KJW receiver tabs broke, turning my KJW M4 into a useless pile of trash, and KJW stopped responding to my emails to get a replacement upper receiver.

 

We'll see how the KWA receiver holds up, but given KWA's track record of customer service I dont think I'll have any trouble getting any parts I need. KJW on the other hand..... The KJW may have been fairly reliable internally, but externally Im of the opinion that it was garbage. Especially with the fake buffer tube that was really just a sleeve.

 

And really just from the customer service alone Im much more comfortable with the KWA.

[akiraspeedstar]

Damn more customers having jamming issues, starting to consider other gbb rifles now. Maybe I'll buy a lm4 in a year or two down the line if KWA fixes their issues.

[akiraspeedstar]

 

Yes...that gun probably wont have recoil too. But i dont care as surely, the gun will perform well.

 

From the footage I've seen, the TM recoil puts KWAs MP7 to shame

[kullwarrior]

From the footage I've seen, the TM recoil puts KWAs MP7 to shame

If that's true, the fps consistency will be damaged instead.

 

From my experience, TM gas gun are meant to run on very light slide/carrier where as KSC/KWA can run up to about 2X of the weight they used.

[sacairsoftsn00py]

LoL @ kullwarrior. Then again..there's a first for everything. HAHA!

 

I was looking at the TM MP7's pictures and it doesn't look like the bolt locks all the way back. Not the end of the world.