AndaxWorks TangoDown ARC WE GBBR Magazine Shell Review

[intinerious]

This will be my review of the AndaxWorks TangoDown ARC WE GBBR Magazine Shell package that I bought at Ehobby during their Father's Day discount sale. I bought it on the last day too, so It was the cheapest price I managed to get for these shells (original price at Ehobby was HKD 620, so I got them for HKD 558. I ended up wanting to do a review of this because I couldn't find one on Google There's a few members here on Arnies that have it and I think someone posted some information about it on the WE M4 GBBR Thread when I asked about the 'drop mag' capability, and there's another one on GGI where someone talked about the incompatibility with CO2 mags, but that was it.

 

It's interesting to note that this product's been out for a long time, before the 'open bolt' WE GBBRs came out. Luckily the mags don't have a significant redesign between the 'closed' and 'open' bolt mags, which make these shells compatible with the 'open bolt' mags too. I'm talking about the Gen1 mags btw, as all of my mags (four in total) are the Gen1 mags, but I see no reason why the Gen2s won't work given that the Gen2s seem to also use the old GI magazine type shells, hence the ARC shells should fit as well.

 

Anyway, without further ado, here's what you'll get as soon as you buy it (or open the package if you're overseas!)

 

 

Notice that this product is licensed by TangoDown so...yeah, if that means anything to you then there's that I believe the trades on the shells are accurate to real steel though I haven't compared pics from the internet with my shells yet (if someone can do that for me that'll be great ). The box also tells you what guns are the mags compatible with, though it's kinda useless once the newer WE GBBRs come out and it's not included in the box decal The way I see it though, as the mags have a flange (you'll see below) that has the same angle as the M4 magwell, anything that does NOT have the same angle, like the HK416 and I believe the L85, won't fit the ARC mags. I'm not sure whether the PDW will fit (or if the normal 5.56 GI mags fit the PDW), but given that the PDW uses it's proprietary mags in real life and WE makes them, why would you want to fit the ARC mag anyway?

 

When you open the box (and wiping the drool off your face from the aniticpation!...maybe that's only me...) you'll be greeted with something like this:

 

 

Obviously four of the mags won't have the internals fitted but I was impatient Anyway, there's no partition between the mag shells (see the top two shells) but there's no need anyway; given that the shells are plastic, they won't scratch each other. The mags also come with longer screws to hold the internals in, compared to the super short screw for the normal GI mags; of which you can see the difference from the plastic baggy on the box lid.

 

Below are pics of all the sides of the magazine, along with the top of the empty magazine shell. I forgot to take a picture of the bottom, sorry!

 

 

If you just take the magazine shells for a first impression, you'll probably be a bit disappointed. The shells do flex, and they do feel a bit flimsy. The two parts of the magazine (the black straight part and the tan curved part) mate without anything gluing both parts together (they are held mechanically by a locking buckle-like clip, which I believe is the same as the real ARC mag, but the real one uses glue as well). The two parts to have slight movement so if you rattle just the shell around you'll hear a clicking sound. Not a great first impression really.

 

I tried taking the two parts apart, but short of shoving 2 screws into the buckle clips to pry the black part away from the tan curved part, and risk snapping the plastic (as I don't know what it's shearing yield is) I didn't bother. If I had managed to separate the parts, I would've applied a generous amount of CA glue before fitting both parts together.

 

The ARC magazine shell is longer than the stock GI shell as well:

 

 

From the second picture above, I think it's about 1.5cm longer? I didn't measure the length difference, sorry!

 

Anyway, my first impressions change after I shove the internals in. The mags feel very solid, and there's no more creaks or mag shell parts moving once the internals are locked into the shell with the long screw. One thing to note is that the mechanism for the bolt lock switch is tight, but not too tight, within the ARC shells:

 

 

Without modification the bolt lock doesn't stick or anything but the switch on top that can disable the bolt lock gets stuck. If you need to use the disabling function I'm sure a short trip with a dremel or a file can solve it, but for now I left it alone.

 

Oh yeah, PTS Magpuls work with the ARC mag, and they fit very tightly too. They were tight on my GI mag shells, but tighter with the ARC shells, so I believe the ARC shells are slightly thicker, but not by much

 

 

As I run a SCAR, and the ARC shells were, in real steel, designed for the SCAR and M4, I had to see whether the flange of the mag mates with the magwell on the SCAR well:

 

 

Pictures may say a thousand words, but really, a 'yes' would've sufficed too in this situation!

 

One thing to note is that the ARC shells don't drop free. But that was the same with the GI mags. So whether they drop free with the M4 (which I believe the GI mags do), I don't know.

 

Some might wonder whether the ARCs fit in a FastNag. I have a Gen3 (IIRC?) ACM FastMag with me so I tried it out:

 

 

From my initial test it doesn't seem to work as the flange gets in the way. The ARC mags sit loosely in the FastMag. I'll try jamming the mags in next time, but even if that works the FastMag's purchase area on the ARC will only be along the flange, so it's not going to be a strong hold anyway.

 

A lot of people mention that the ARC shells will require an extended nozzle to be able to fill gas into the internal resevior of the WE mag internals. However, in my testing of the ARC shells this is not the case with ET-1000 gas bottles that a lot of Asian airsofters use. The nozzle has to go ALL the way in (thus making the Magpuls infeasible for filling gas), with the gas bottle body touching the bottom of the ARC shell to fill gas:

 

 

Perhaps you guys in UK/US and elsewhere with large propane bottles have shorter nozzle lengths, hence requiring a nozzle extension. Nonetheless this shows that AndaxWorks (which I believe is an Asian company...thank you Captain Obvious me) considered the design limitations with the gas filling issue. Well, at least I hoped they had considered it as the nozzle length (or should I say the fill valve depth) is JUST right to get gas into the mag.

 

Oh; that and the position of the mag catch slot on the mags are good too; so they don't hang too high or low, leading to gas sealing or bolt jamming problems on the WE SCAR 'open bolt', so I guess that goes for the M4s too.

 

As for whether they are droppable without damaging the shell significantly, I haven't tried. Given the amount of empty space near the bottom of the mag I believe an impact will create a large amount of stress on the mag body. I'm playing with the idea of getting some sorbothane pads cut up and try to fill those spaces (or use gasket sealant or anything that can absorb impact) to see if it can at least transfer some of the impact shock to the filling material to reduce stress on the mag shells themselves. If that works then these mags will be droppable without seeing the same damage as the GI mags with the base plate popping off and the metal being dented.

 

So, in conclusion. Are these ARC mag shells good value for money? Honestly no, not really. Sure they 'feel' durable AFTER I shoved the internals into the mag shells but the plastic used isn't anything special, it's just normal ABS-like plastic. For the normal retail price I paid I would've expected the plastic to be something stronger, and can really take a beating. Maybe these mag shells can too; but from my first impressions they leave me with doubts and I'm not inclined to start doing destructive tests on the other 2 shells I have given the price I paid, even when discounted.

 

However, if you want something that's more grippy than the slick GI mag shells (something I didn't mention in my review, but the waffle pattern makes it very easy to grip, and it's something that was designed for in the real steel ARC mags) and want something different...and don't mind the cost (it's my opinion though, I'm a cheap *bramston pickle* ) then these are a great edition to your WE GBBR guns as long as they have the same angle as the M4 magwell

 

If anyone has anything to add (I'm sure there are members out there that do!) or any questions lemme know!

 

Oh, and here's one more gun porn pic! I've got 2 more actually, but I'm saving those for the SCAR picture thread

 

[Jimmypie]

Great review , I've had mine for about 18months odd now, held up fine , no cracks splits etc....

 

For uk users, the AI propane adapter kit comes with an extended nozzle, perfect fit for these.

[intinerious]

Great review , I've had mine for about 18months odd now, held up fine , no cracks splits etc....

 

For uk users, the AI propane adapter kit comes with an extended nozzle, perfect fit for these.

 

Ah I think I asked you about the mags on the M4 thread didn't I? Thanks for your response btw!

[Jimmypie]

That's right, I seem to remember , tape measures, nozzles and mags ,

 

Do you have an m4 as well? The fit perfectly in both my scars and m4, a really nice upgrade to standard usgi or pmags.

[intinerious]

Well I don't think I can get Pmags here in Hong Kong so these are the only aftermarket mag shells that I can get locally.

 

They fit damn well for my SCAR; only problem is it still doesn't drop free..I've been thinking of a way to get them to do so on the SCAR, haven't had any breakthroughs yet

 

I'm planning to get a M4 in the future too...you can see me being the idiot that I am I bought the 8" extension for my SCAR....and then I realised there aren't many GBBR outdoor skirmishes that I'd like to go to (there's a group that plays to HK's limits..or even over it, and they use purely GBBRs..but the main issue is I don't want to dig bbs out of my skin >< so I'm stuck with something I don't want but I spent enough dough on it to make me feel guilty about not using it Having a 18" barreled gun isn't very fun in a CQB game when everyone's jumping around with pistols, SMGs and SBRs XD

 

I might have the SCAR end up as a plinking gun, and will be buying a 14.5" M4 in the future to be used in CQB games That way I can play with a GBBR in a CQB game and saving some money on the mags

 

Speaking of which, do the mags drop out freely from an M4?

[Reppyboyo]

Had these for a month or two now.

Decent shells, fairly well priced and seem to take a beating.

 

The AI propane adapter /just/ fits and fills without extension but you may wish to use the extension for ease of use.

 

I prefer P-Mags but the shells are REALLY expensive from the fella whom does them.

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention, these do drop free on an M4 if you so wish to.

Plus the standard shells deform REALLY easily if you drop them, even accidentally.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Reppyboyo

[intinerious]

When you say they take a beating, care to elaborate on it? As you mentioned, one of the main problems with the standard shells is that they deform easily. I'd like to have some feedback on what kid of punishments you guys have subjected your shells to and how it faired afterwards

 

And yeah, from what I remember the pmags were crazy expensive....my ARC shells were HKD 93 per piece, so that's USD 11.99 per shell. Weren't the pmags made by some guy in France? I don't remember...

 

Oh and thanks Reppyboyo for the M4 + ARC dropping free info

[Jimmypie]

I ment to say, use the extension nozzle on green gas cans, rather than doubling up on the propane adaptor.

 

And yes they drop free, but they do on my scars as well, maybe slightly different tolerances on mine.

[intinerious]

I ment to say, use the extension nozzle on green gas cans, rather than doubling up on the propane adaptor.

 

And yes they drop free, but they do on my scars as well, maybe slightly different tolerances on mine.

 

Hmm probably. From what I can tell it's the rear part of the mag (as they tend to sit with the mag tilting towards the hammer assembly) that's catching on the receiver, making it not drop free. I'm still trying to figure out what to do in this case as I don't want to do any unintentional mods to the receiver and screwing things up in the process...

[NonEx]

I paid 48 USD per PMAG shell for my WE magazines, from a guy at gasguns forum. Real PMAG30 MagLevel magazines pre-modded with ranger plates. Soo

[intinerious]

I paid 48 USD per PMAG shell for my WE magazines, from a guy at gasguns forum. Real PMAG30 MagLevel magazines pre-modded with ranger plates. Soo

 

Ouch, I don't have that much money to spend....the 48 USD included shipping too right? I guess the Real Pmag WE GBBR shells are damn near indestructible?

 

I'm just wondering whether these ARC mags in its stock form with the internals attached can take direct drops to concrete floors without being seriously damaged. That was what I was hoping for, but a concrete drop test, with consideration that the gas mags are heavy makes me very weary of doing a drop test

 

Oh, I also forgot to mention in my review that the internals slide into the ARC shell very easily. The stock alu shells are much harder to slide in. In fact, the internal perimeter of the plastic of the shell is very close to a perfect fit with the perimeter of the cross section of the WE mag internals.

[NonEx]

Nope that was excluding shipping

 

But yes, they are absolutely amazing, not only is the actual magazine material awesome but the fit and finish in the WE M4 is incredible, much thanks to the work of Country Scrub on gasguns who made them for me. He had made over 200 of these mags and he still had problems with one he made for me and had to remake one, so that's a good indication of how difficult it is to get right, if you are considering doing the mod yourself.

 

Sorry for derailing the thread! Over and out!

[intinerious]

Well if the ARC ones are 1/3 the durability of the Magpul RS pmag shells then I'm happy, considering the price I paid Anyway, no worries about derailing the thread, I actually wanted to have a discussion about the different WE magazine aftermarket parts, seem to be a nice place here to save information like that

[Reppyboyo]

Ive dropped my arc mags a few times as I am a bit clumbsy with fast reloads. No real damage.

Done the same to P-mags, they just seem to refuse to be marked.

 

Last I was quoted CS's P-mags were $40 a piece.

Very, very expensive but he does put a lot of work into them and they do fit incredibly well in WE M4's.

 

Shame Magpul PTS dont come along and make some shells for our mags.

[intinerious]

Ive dropped my arc mags a few times as I am a bit clumbsy with fast reloads. No real damage.

Done the same to P-mags, they just seem to refuse to be marked.

 

Last I was quoted CS's P-mags were $40 a piece.

Very, very expensive but he does put a lot of work into them and they do fit incredibly well in WE M4's.

 

Shame Magpul PTS dont come along and make some shells for our mags.

 

Ah, thanks for the durability insight I've been worried about the huge space between the bottom of the internal mag and the ARC shell itself as the ARC is longer than the standard mag (even the standard mag had some space between the bottom of the shell and the internals. Any impact stress would make those parts buckle and break easily from a technical point of view given the free vibrations that will flow from the walls of the shell with nothing to dampen the impact.

 

As for the p-mags, I think I should review my stance on that after seeing this:

 

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/gandp-39rd-magpul-pts-magazine-for-wa-m4-gbb-black.html

 

The G&P p-mags are already 54 bucks a piece without shipping. And remember, the PTS plastic is nothing like the RS plastic (IIRC) so I'm certain the durability of the PTS ones won't be good either. If PTS WILL make a pmag for WE....which I doubt they will, since they are firmly entrenched in the WA system. Though if there's significant money to be made there might be a chance...it's business after all.

 

So Country Scrub's price for 1 p-mag for WE, including the labour costs to fit the shells and stuff, is actually a very reasonable price Still, one of the main selling points for the WE are the cheap mags, and if I'm gonna be paying as much as a WA mag for a GBBR I might be put off from playing with GBBRs completely

[NonEx]

Well, the price of 40, or 48 USD (standard PMAG30, and PMAG30 MagLevel with ranger plate) is without internals, just the empty shell.

 

I also dropped one of my PMAGs once or twice and I thought there was more damage to my hardwood floor than the magazine itself, incredible things they are.

[intinerious]

Ouch I guess it really IS expensive then XD Well if the real pmags without anything inside to hold the shell intact (as it's empty, with a spring in between the shell walls) can stand up to a truck rolling over it then I think the pmag WE gbbr mags would be able to withstand even more adverse impact than an unmod RS shell

 

However, the only weak point is how the pmag and the internals are attached to each other. I'm not too trusting of the small screw holding the internals of the WE mag and the ARC shell together....if the plastic yields then it's not something I can replace by using a lot of CA glue

[NonEx]

Actually the real PMAG shells hold the WE internals with friction only, lots of friction. You have to hammed the internals out with a mallet and a wood spacer, it is a super tight fit, so there is no problem with anything moving around or getting loose.

[Reppyboyo]

That tight must be his latest ones.

The two I have are quite tight but can still be pushed out by hand.

 

Will be getting a few more in time to outfit my other mags once I have the spare cash.

[intinerious]

Wait, with NonEx's pmags I get it as the friction seems to be really strong, but Reppyboyo, if your can push the internals out with your hands is the pmag still pretty sturdy?

 

Btw, if you guys want to get these ARC mags separately, DENTrinity sell them separately. I know for sure they do in the retail store and I think I've seen it sold separately through their website too. Something to note if you don't want to get a box of 6.

[Reppyboyo]

Yea, its still very tight in there. The internals will not move without me pushing apon them.

[NonEx]

Perhaps you are gorilla strong, mine won't budge when I try to poke them out with my finger or thumbs.

[intinerious]

You guys said that CS does them one by one right? I guess it differs per batch (or even per mag)?

 

Anyway, a little update on the ARC mags. I mentioned before that the mags prevent the mag catch disabling switch from operating, and it's because the silver part (you'll see below) are too 'tall' on the side of the mag, creating needless friction between the mag shell and the switch itself. I tried to file away the mag shells but then after taking a look at how the switch was designed I implemented another way (a faster way too) to fix the issue.

 

Firstly, take out the interior of the mag and remove the part where it engages the bolt catch. This leaves you freer to manipulate the switch:

 

 

I found that my switch was stuck in the mag for some reason (and I haven't really played with it (as it was fine in the original shells) so it occurred to me as I am typing this that the ARC shell probably pushed the catch a bit more into the mag and hence making the switch stuck on it's 'off' position.

 

So, what I did, and you can see from the switch picture above, is that the silver part of the switch that pushes down the bolt catch piece when you turn the switch on is kind of like a hook (I just realised I screwed up the pic taking it one handed with my camera phone, sorry!). So, instead of diminishing the IMO thin plastic mag shells to make the switch work, what you do is take any metal and kinda pointy ended object (I'm using the end of my file) and push the hook shape INTO the magazine so that the whole silver part (where it's catching against the mag shell) is now permanently deformed and the whole thing sits lower to the mag body:

 

 

By doing so you'll be kinda damaging that part of the switch to get it to work (as you're permanently deforming it) but it doesn't affect the switch at all. After doing that, simply reassemble the mag and you'll be able to push the switch to the 'on' position to disable the bolt catch:

 

 

Some might not have issues with it, as the tolerances for the switch and the mag shell may differ per batch but for those who's got the same issues as me there's your fix!