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Heath

SWAT uk 247

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Accidentally ordered 2 impact grenades instead of one. I had requested that it had 'Heath' engraved on as well. Two minutes after receiving the invoice for the order, i contacted them using the contact form on the website requesting for the order to be cancelled. I sent another the next morning at 8:30 as well. I still hadnt heard anything, so i sent another 2 emails on the tuesday requesting for the order to be cancelled. I received a reply at 7:30pm saying that

'this may pose a problem for you, the grenades were shipped yesterday and engraved as requested'.

I contacted him again asking what possible courses of action there were and didn't get a reply. I sent another email yesterday explaining that the order still hadn't arrived (despite being 24h delivery), and that because i had requested multiple times (including one straight after ordering) i felt it was his responsibility that the order had not been cancelled.

 

I finally decided to call him and was greeted with a sigh. I explained the situation to him but i didnt quote a reference order because he already knew which order i was talking about, so i am guessing that he had read all of the emails, but only replied to one. He told me that "you should have called, i dont really check my emails." From what he said if i had called to cancel then he would have not engraved them, not dispatched the order and refunded me the money. Basically, my method of communication was wrong.

 

At the end of the day, its the customers responsibility to check which method of contact is preferred by a company. If an email address/contact form is on somebodies website, i will assume that they check it (which has been the case with all of the other websites i have dealt with). He told me again that they were sent out on monday, and because they were engraved he could not refund me the money straight up, which would be understandable if i had cancelled the order after he had dispatched them.

 

I received another email last night stating that 'you did have access to the customer area and could have influenced the order at the picking point.' However on the invoice email itself it states that you can view the order status, but not cancel it. In the customer area there is no way to cancel the order, and it was not updated with the order status either. He did offer to accept the grenade back as long as i pay 20% for handling charges (postage and other costs) and i postage back to him would be out of my pocket, and also pay for a new case at £17. Again, this would be understandable if i had requested to cancel the order after the items had been dispatched.

 

In the same email he said 'we have no control of royal mails deliveries despite the fact we send out same day. the item that has been trakced suggets they tried to deliver today ?'

However on the parcel, the date stamp says 27/06/12 which is definitely not Monday, and there was definitely no attempted delivery yesterday. The way this situation has been handled is very poor, communication was awful and the person/people i have spoken to were very rude.

 

I would definitely not recommend ordering from them. If they had been more polite, i wouldn't feel like i was being screwed over in this situation as much. The returns policy on their website states nothing about fees for returning engraved items.

 

If anybody would like i can post the back and forth (if you can call it that) with the emails.

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My condolences mate, they sound like a right bunch of cowboys. 'Not checking emails' is the same as saying 'Sorry, we can't be arsed to do our jobs'. I'd be threatening trading standards as well if I were you to see if that encourages them to be any more cooperative.

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Glad im not the only person who thought that. A company that operates on the internet should be checking their emails. I have but i haven't received a reply yet, ill keep this thread updated.

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Essentially it sounds like the classic case of using poor communication as an excuse for poor customer service, both of which are the fault of the retailer. I'd send them a no nonsense e-mail stating the facts, the exact reasons their service has been unacceptable and your intention to take the matter further should they not adequately resolve it.

 

A lot of people tend to leave it due to the hassle, but usually the threat of making a complaint official with a government department of some sort is enough to do the trick.

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It certainly is. I have sent them an email saying if they do not resolve the issue adequately they i will bring in trading standards, or somebody along those lines (worded a lot better than that though). I do intend to see this through to the end, because its his fault the order went through and not mine.

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Another email from them.

 

we have no control of the post office and their date stamps etc, again you were in control of the order despite the fact your instructions were to engrave the grenades, i cannot see what all the fuss is about which results in what a £70.00 grenade you changed your mind about.

the basis of resolving this dispute is to what threaten us ?

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That is utterly pathetic; You can safely inform them for a fact, coming from a man who does the post in a large office, that the royal mail date stamp is applied at the moment of posting an item, whether in a post office or through a franking machine. If the date stamp says they posted it late, they posted it late, and that's an indisputable fact.

 

It sounds like they're going to try and assume you'll get bored and leave it - Maybe post up the e-mail chain and redact the relevant details to give everyone a better idea of the facts? It sounds to me like they're using the ZeroOne method of customer service... I'd suggest reminding them their a retail business, subject to the same law as any other, and that their pathetic excuses aren't going to hold up in a court should it come down to it. They really do sound like a bunch of *albartrotheth* from what I've seen/read so far!

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Problem with SWAT is that all the staff have other day jobs, at the airsoft/paintball/retail side of the business is run in the spare time. Hence it's not their main source of income, so less time is devoted to the business than there should be. In regards to the communication with the owner, in my experience it's always been a case of "My way or the highway" with him.

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in my experience it's always been a case of "My way or the highway" with him.

 

Then he needs to read up on retail law or just stop it. Just because Airsoft is a niche market doesn't mean retailers should be able to get away with mugging people off... It seriously happens way too much in this industry.

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Agreed that the situation has been handled badly, but what exactly are you hoping to gain from contacting Trading Standards?

 

It's a unique case as I imagine an engraved item would count as used. How exactly did you order two, was it just human error, website faulty or badly designed?

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Screwing over the retailer to teach them a well deserved lesson that will benefit their retail business in the long term by learning from an obvious mistake?

 

For a start; Even if human error results in an incorrect order being placed, according to the OP (And I'll be willing to eat my words if it turns out to be a twisted version of events, but I find that's very rare), he's cancelled the order the moment he's received the invoice. If they're so prompt with e-mailing the invoice, why take 2 days to reply to the cancellation of the order?

 

If you walk into a branch of Primark, pick up the wrong size top by mistake and then ask at the tills to swap it for the correct size, would you not be shocked if the customer services representative said something along the lines of 'Well, sucks to be you'?

 

The point is, from the off the retailer's attitude has been abysmal; The first reply, even if the grenade had been engraved as a result of customer error, should have been along the lines of 'Hello, we're really sorry about this, but we've already engraved the grenade so we can't give you a full refund, but if you're willing to pay for a new shell for it we'll give you the rest back, and apologies for not getting to your cancellation e-mail sooner'.

 

What it comes down to more than anything is the attitude of the retailer in question; Assuming the statements the OP has quoted are correct, that is absolutely shocking behaviour from a business.

 

I know it's hard for Airsoft retailers, I know a fair few people who work for them, especially with idiot noobs with rich parents and no basic common sense. But that's never an excuse for poor service, borderline rudeness to customers and complete nonchalance when it comes to resolving an issue. Sure, if someone is obviously trying to scam you, fair enough. When it comes to a customer who's made a simple honest mistake that could have been easily rectified, If a retailer isn't doing everything they can to make the customer happy with the outcome, then they're a *suitcase* retailer. It is literally that simple.

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I got to the point in the order where it had 'any extra comments'. So i wanted to make sure i hadnt missed out the point where you asked for it to be engraved. I opened up a new tab, and added a grenade to the basket. Usually when you are past a certain point any additions to the basket in another window wont effect the order, and i think the any extra comments part was in the overview section of the checkout process.

 

The point is, from the off the retailer's attitude has been abysmal; The first reply, even if the grenade had been engraved as a result of customer error, should have been along the lines of 'Hello, we're really sorry about this, but we've already engraved the grenade so we can't give you a full refund, but if you're willing to pay for a new shell for it we'll give you the rest back, and apologies for not getting to your cancellation e-mail sooner'.

 

I would have been a lot happier if they had said that to begin with even though i would have been out of pocket.

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Invoice came through at 12:57 PM

 

Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 12:59 PM

You have received a new inquiry:

 

Data:

------------

Customer ID: ******

Name: Jordan Heath

E-mail address: ************************

 

 

Inquiry:

--------------

Subject: Cancel order.

 

To whom it may concern,

 

i wish to cancel the other number O-1053 as i accidentally ordered 2

impact grenades instead of one.

 

Regards,

 

Jordan Heath

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:31 AM

 

To whom it may concern,

 

I wish to cancel order number O-1053 as i made a mistake when selecting a product.

 

Regards,

 

Jordan Heath

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

1]

 

 

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 2:42 PM

To whom it may concern,

 

I sent an email on sunday saying that i wished to cancel the order number

O-1053, however i have not heard anything since. Has the order been

cancelled?

 

Regards,

 

Jordan Heath

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1]

 

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 7:26 PM

 

 

 

 

hi jordan,

this may pose a problem for you, the grenades were shipped yesterday and engraved as requested.

regards

paul

s.w.a.t.

 

cleardot.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1]

 

 

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 8:35 PM

 

Hi Paul,

 

I sent an email using the contact form on the website immediately after ordering, then another on monday morning at 8:30 am using the direct email address. What possible courses of action are there now?

 

Regards,

 

Jordan Heath

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1]

 

 

Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 4:18 PM

 

Hi Paul,

 

Am i to assume that the order was not dispatched on Monday as i have

yet to receive them. (The shipping method was 'Royal mail special

delivery' which is a 24 hour service, so unless they have been lost

they should have arrived yesterday.) As i requested for the order to

be cancelled on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, I take no responsibility

for the error and i wish to know how you intend to resolve this

problem.

 

Regards,

 

Jordan Heath

 

cleardot.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At this point i called up and had the conversation where i was told that i should have called them, and that they werent willing to do anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hi jordan,

this is not the best way to resolve a problem, and you were advised by email on tuesday that the grenades had been engraved as requested in your order.

you did have access to the customer area and could have influenced the order at the picking point.

you did not ring, but said you have sent emails to us to cancell, we will accept back the grenade or whole order, but must then charge for the return and subsiquent new casings that would be required.

the casing costs £17.00 each + vat and a handling charge of 20% would be added to cover costs + postage costs,

let me know which way you wish to proceed, also we have no control of royal mails deliveries despite the fact we send out same day.

the item that has been trakced suggets they tried to deliver today ?

regards

paul

s.w.a.t.

 

cleardot.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1]

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

There was no attempted delivery today. In the customer area there is

only an option to view order, not cancel them or edit them. In the

invoice email it states 'You can check the status of your order at any

time in our customer area'. It says nothing about influencing the

order. I had already emailed you on Sunday and Monday, but i only

received a reply from you on Tuesday. I contacted you immediately

after the order had been completed to request to cancel it.

 

I did not call because i prefer to have evidence of communication for

situations where things do not work out properly. I would understand

if i had requested to cancel the order after it had been dispatched,

but i requested to cancel it two minutes after receiving the invoice

email.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

The parcel has arrived today. The date on the stamp is the 27th, so i

doubt that it was sent out on monday, or that there was an attempted

delivery yesterday. I will be contacting trading standards and

notifying them of the situation if this is not resolved properly. It

is unfortunate that it has come to this.

 

Regards,

 

Jordan Heath

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1]

 

 

 

hi jordan,

we have no control of the post office and their date stamps etc, again you were in control of the order despite the fact your instructions were to engrave the grenades, i cannot see what all the fuss is about which results in what a £70.00 grenade you changed your mind about.

the basis of resolving this dispute is to what threaten us ?

regards

paul

s.w.a.t.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1]

 

 

 

 

If the date on the stamp is yesterdays, and the service by which the

parcel was sent is 24 hour delivery, it all points to you sending the

parcel on the 27th, and not the 24th.

 

My instructions were also to cancel the order. I never planned on

buying the second grenade, and to some people and extra £70 is

something that could be better spent elsewhere. Im sure that if you

were in my situation you would feel the same way. Unfortunately trying

to resolve the situation talking directly to you has not worked, so i

will have to take other steps.

 

Regards,

 

 

Jordan Heath.

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Factually, the retailer has shipped your package AFTER replying to your e-mail, stating that they'd already been shipped. Unless they can damn well prove otherwise, they wanted the money and just put the order through anyway despite clearly having seen the cancellation request before the shipping and engraving.

 

I wish you the best of luck in getting the resolution you should have had in the first place dude, it really does anger me seeing this kind of pathetic service from some airsoft retailers just because they think they can get away with it.

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From what they said the order was sent out on the monday, but from the stamp (and i might be able to find out from the tracking number) it was sent out on the 27th. I do think they wanted to shift the grenades as they are releasing newer versions this weekend.

 

Thanks. I have managed to sell the grenade on myself now, but i will make sure i warn people of their quality of service.

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Any RM tracking number will give you a date of posting, and RM special delivery is definitely next day. Out of curiosity, was the sticker on the package orange or silver?

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Ahh, definitely SD then. If it was posted on Monday, you'd have received it Tuesday barring any royal mail delays - Besides, the post stamp confirms it was posted on the 27th, so they have literally balls-out lied to you on that.

 

Still, glad to hear it's worked out, sort of - I'd still say present them with a simple list of facts and inform them of the fact you'll be telling every forum you can find, just to let 'em know poor customer service results in poor profitability. They're definitely not gonna be getting any hits on the website from me at least! :P

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Ahh, definitely SD then. If it was posted on Monday, you'd have received it Tuesday barring any royal mail delays.

Even if it was delayed SWAT would be able to put in a claim with RM for a refund of the postage cost and pass it back on.

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This has definitely put me off buying from them again. I have found other places to buy blanks and pins, so i should be ok.

 

He certainly isnt the sort of person who should be running a business.

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Most recent email from him.

 

Hi Jordan,

Don’t be so dam rude, it would be polite to address the matter by either a hi or dear sir.

You are obviously intent on not taking the blame for this matter; the fact that you ordered a product then changed your mind is not covered by your statutory rights.

We have made a fair offer for you to return the goods, which you up to this point have declined.

Rather than be sporadic with your threats would it be more prudent to be productive rather than shift the blame on to us.

  • Your ordered a grenade and requested that the grenades were engraved with “heath”
  • All orders are treated as priority and are shipped same day or next
  • Your order was processed Monday and shipped next day special delivery
  • You emailed us to say you have changed your mind
  • We emailed back to advise that the order was shipped and engraved
  • You rang and we explained which you accepted
  • Then again you changed your mind!

We have no control over the deliveries and the duration of time royal mail take, maybe the shipment was slowed down due to adverse weather I don’t know?

If your attempts on Monday failed it is because you were not too concerned, you should have rang us to cancel rather than rely on emails which we did not receive, and we only have your word that they were sent, I have check our spam system and all dates prior and after and nothing other than the email Tuesday.

So come up with a resolution or accept our offer and return the goods and we will refund you less the costs outlined.

If you persist with the childish threats we will treat this matter thus, and best advise you to seek legal help, not forgetting its £70.00 and you do have a nice product with your name on it.

Regards

Paul

s.w.a.t.

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As a note, i did not accept. I acknowledged his response, but did not say "I will no longer pursue this issue" or anything along those lines. I don't see how informing them that i will contact trading standards is childish, but maybe that's just me. As for me being the one who is rude... And now he is denying receiving any emails, even though i got a copy sent to me by their contact form. I have managed to sort out the spare grenade myself, but i still think its worth me updating any emails i get.

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I genuinely find it difficult to believe that came from someone running a business... Honestly, I don't think you're likely to get any further e-mailing the bloke. My suggestion would be to shrink the matter into a summarised version of facts with the e-mail chain attached to back it up, and publish the story on forums you can find. Chances are it's going to be an awful lot of hassle to go through the legal route, and even though that's what the guy deserves it comes down to whether you want to go that far. I can safely say you've put off at least one, and potentially many more customers just on this thread... Really sorry to hear about the whole experience man, that really is awful customer service coming from a shop. Accusing you of being rude and swearing just in the first sentence could be from a comedy sketch about bad internet retailers...

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i have put the original post up on a couple of other forums, and i will update them with the emails. Ill put this up on as many forums i can find. Thanks for your help as well.

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