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FireKnife

ACM M&P. Don't tell me WE have beaten TM to it.........

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Phil dude, I about came when I started shooting my XDM compact, I grabbed another long mag too and threw 3 mags though it in seconds, so much fun, it was well received on our range, I find the long XDM to be a blight on my eyes though :P

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Let's remember that the 3HK PX4 and the WE XDM are as good as they are because these clone companies did a good job of copying the original TM designs. Beyond the cosmetic issues--slide lock, trades, etc.--the $64 question is what is inside the M&P. Have WE been able to shoehorn something similar to a TM Glock or XDM in there with that low profile slide, or is it all of WE's own invention? In which case........

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Let's remember that the 3HK PX4 and the WE XDM are as good as they are because these clone companies did a good job of copying the original TM designs. Beyond the cosmetic issues--slide lock, trades, etc.--the $64 question is what is inside the M&P. Have WE been able to shoehorn something similar to a TM Glock or XDM in there with that low profile slide, or is it all of WE's own invention? In which case........

 

Again though...shoehorning another guns' bits into this had not worked all that well with WE....back to that 1911 again...

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On related news, Guarder has released a line of hard holsters for the M&P 9 Compact.

http://www.intrudershop.com.tw/

Not sure if what's filling them in the pics are real ones or WE. If it's WE then you could expect some kind of after market support from them.

They also released the same kind of holster for the s&w 5904, I'm unsure on what they're doing but it's part of their lineout of holsters.

facts =/= hate

The slide lock isn't supposed to catch on the visible notch on the slide like on Glocks and 1911s plus look at the alignment of the disassembly lever scallop on the slide. Could be better than the first vid/pics but short is short. Can't tell for sure how short though as there's no pic of the right side. Last time it was so bad that the shoulder of the chamber was still poking out the ejection port. And now that you've brought that pic up again, it seems the cut on the front part of the slide (next to where front serrations are) is at a wrong angle. It's supposed to be collinear with the front of the trigger guard. The WE looks to be off by about 10 degrees.

 

As for the absence of front serrations, only .45 models have them. 9 and .40 only have them at the rear.

Taiwan National Police Department standard issue pistol is 5904 and M&P9C

I'm kinda disappointed by how WE screw this up. This isn't AKS74U where a real copy is inaccessible. They could've easily ask to burrow one of the police gun for measurement.

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In my opinion this is a case of WE doing what they do with their GBBR's, which is something they do quite well; design a gas system (or copy one) that will fit a myriad of models. I would say this is an XDM in the M&P. Why? Well, they are just lashing out variants of the XDM, aren't they? To me it fits their MO.

 

I look forward to the release, as WE are becoming a powerhouse of pistols. TM beat them every day of the week in performance (there is ZERO doubt in my mind of that), but WE are beginning to get the edge in finish - the WE/HK3P Samurai Edge IS nicer than TM's version...and I have the 15th anniversary edition of it, and I would still choose the HK3P/WE version.

 

This will be interesting

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Trades shouldn't be an issue, didn't S&W have a falling out with Cyberaids a few years ago?

 

If this thing performs like the XDM I'm tempted.

 

Yes, but they've made up now so, Cybergun (once again) has airsoft licensing rights for S&W. If/when there is a trademarked version it WILL be through Cybergun. Of course any "unlicensed" version with (and possibly w/o) trades will have Cybergun's lawyers jumping all over it.

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Certainly not exclusive though. Both Marushin and Tanaka are licensed to put S&W on their guns. Then there's the upcoming re-release of Maruis M19/66 revolvers which will be sporting licensed trades again (used to be licensed then not, now ok again).

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Why don't people take a look at the S&W site to see what the guns look like:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category3_750001_750051_757781_-1_Y

 

The only M&P's that come default with forward slide serrations are their .45 ACP models. All other M&P's do not have serrations from the factory. I personally have the M&P 9 (full size), M&P 9L, and M&P 9Pro (5"). Both the TM and WE versions shown so far appear to be based on the M&P 9 Full Size model and their lack of serrations is accurate.

 

As others have pointed out, the WE's slide appears to not cycle as far rearwards as my real M&Ps do. Personally, I can get past that for my own interests. The finish of the slide however is god awful. It's just ... bad.

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I'm not sure why everyone seems to be so upset that the slide travel is off by less then a quarter inch. Its not something that affects functionality, its not something that affects "training" if you plan to use it for that. The difference really is insignificant and arguing over it sounds kinda whacky. Remember, people, this is airsoft. I'm sure WE had its reasons for overlooking it and personally, I would happily trade an eighth of an inch of slide travel for a gun that functions properly.

 

Especially after getting that VFC Mp5 that was damn near perfect inside and out aesthetically but never. ever. works. Gimme a functioning gun any day.

 

Anyway, Considering that this is WE's own design, I'm not surprised that things are slightly off. WE isn't quite as detailed in the engineering department as TM is. But for half the price of a TM, they're a good deal for sidearms.

 

I really want to see what their rifle design team comes up with next. They might not have the best internals, sure, but to me it seems like WE is the only company willing to stick they're necks out and try different models. And to me that's worth my money. Theres only so many M4's I can take. (Dear WE, please make a GBB Uzi Carbine. Love, Brigg)

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I'm not sure why everyone seems to be so upset that the slide travel is off by less then a quarter inch. Its not something that affects functionality, its not something that affects "training" if you plan to use it for that. The difference really is insignificant and arguing over it sounds kinda whacky. Remember, people, this is airsoft. I'm sure WE had its reasons for overlooking it and personally, I would happily trade an eighth of an inch of slide travel for a gun that functions properly.

 

But why compromise when there is probably a way to replicate full slide travel on the WE? I'm sure there is as it's a pistol and most GBB pistols are capable of full slide travel, so why can't we be upset that WE cannot manage to replicate it fully or that they missed out on that detail? It's airsoft, so I don't see why it's 'whacky' for us to complain that WE did not replicate the slide travel 100%. :rolleyes:

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I'm not seeing it on the new pics. The rear of the slide and the rear serrations match up in alignment perfectly with the RS one. Perhaps in the airsoft one the outer barrel travels back with the slide a little bit creating the illusion that it is not full travel...

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That's what you are refering to by "reduced slide travel" ? :0 sheesh...

 

The differense in the alignment of the disassembly level cut out and the front of the disassembly lever is ~2mm by approximation.

 

However, the distance on the RS one from the back of the disassembly lever cut out to the slide catch cut out is longer than that on the WE one.

 

So in effect WE has moved the slide catch notch up a little but, probably due to technicalities with how the slide catch engages.

 

But if you look at the bigger picture, of the slide actually locked back, the front of the rear slide serrations match up very closely to the RS counterpart overall.

 

Here is a relative comparison of the two, scaled and aligned around the disassembly lever;

 

rs_xdm_vs_we_xdm.jpg

 

Completely unscientific but gives you and idea of how the spacing and alignment are modified on the WE. Also the referense RS one is a .45 so it might now be a match.

 

EDIT:

 

OK here is a RS S&W M&P 9mm vs. the WE M&P 9mm, slide forward. Could not for the life of me find a picture of an RS with the slide locked back... Scaled to size match based on disassembly lever and slide lock lever, aligned based on the disassembly lever.

 

rs_mp_vs_we_mp.jpg

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What raises an eyebrow is the fact that it (slide travel) was horrible to begin and though they improved it later, still didn't get it right. What that's telling me is either they don't take detail too seriously or they've come across a limitation on their design in transplanting components from a different gun which is likely what they did. And the last time they did that they made a horrible mess of a 1911.

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Well. what are you comparing it to? The only pic of the slide locked back that is used and compared to in this entire thread is NOT the 9mm M&P. Find me a picture of an RS S&W M&P 9mm with the slide locked back and I will compare them. Until then, we do not know if it is according to RS or not. To those of you in here with RS S&W M&P 9mm, give me a picture, decently shot to match the angle and lens type of the WE image with the pistol slide locked back.

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Ask and you shall recieve, M&P 9, slide locked back:

312.jpg

 

Still, with the reduced slide travel I wonder how the WE disassembly lever will work...

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Its strange but no one seems to complain when the Marui SIGs were designed not to real spec, so are the WE P228 and the KJW P229. No one complained that WA M4s, or any AEG M4s, or the AEG AK47 s for that matter are also not to real spec.

 

Like the original KSC M9s they were designed off spec in the slide and trigger group assembly as most of the gun was pretty much real spec (unlike the Marui). This is possibly one of the reasons why the KSCs came with plastic outer barrels.

 

So a few mms of difference, isn't enough to get my panties in a knot.

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Thanks for the pic, check this out. Scaled and fit on top of eachother based on disassembly lever and slide catch lever again. Then I aligned them in the upper pic after the disassembly lever.

 

Then in the second picture i aligned the slides. Wait, what's this ? Same ? Yes indeed, it is the barrel recession into the slide when locked back on the WE that is percieved as "shorter slide travel".

 

/ end thread

 

sw_mp_rs_vs_we.jpg

 

 

Sure, there is some offset to other components, cuts and parts, but come on...

 

Strange though. Th lenght of the slides match up, the cut out for the disassembly lever almost matches up. But there seems to be an offset on the lower frame. The front ends match up, but not the rears... huh ? :o

Are we sure the RS pic is of the 4.5" model? Although the frames should be the same for all models. Oh well.

Also notice that the controls sit much tighter to the frame on the RS one. So I guessinstead of rotating completely within the disassembly notch the lever rides out on top of the slide side.

 

I just did another check. Officlal S&W M&P 9mm pic from their website, overlayed on the WE, with subtract filter on. Camera angles slightly different. Scaled to match, looks pretty identical:

 

sw_mp_rs_vs_we2.jpg

 

Something was probably off with that RS pic that was posted, in terms of the frame, Maybe older model ?

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I sent an email with the link to this thread to a couple of WE emails, see if anyone replies to me. Just to let them know and have a look at what is up...

Funny how this thread almost has more momentum and info than the thread over on arms-cool.net :D

Check my comparison post on previous page, updated with overlay image of official S&W website pic of 9mm M&P and WE M&P.

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Apparently there was some complaining on the forums about the pins on the m&P not being hollow (or hex screw or whathaveyou) and WE already changed that:

p1000643v.jpg

Also they're already experimenting with colour variations (tan frame, backstraps, even pink backstraps).

For more pictures: http://www.arms-cool.net/forum/thread-124131-1-1.html

 

Oddly enough, there have been no pictures with the slide back since the first ones... maybe they're fixing that?

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I don't care about that ######, need something other than snap rounds. WE tell us when we can buy IT!

 

on a serious note, thats cool, I have half a dozen different backstraps scattered about my house, the hex key on the real one is nifty, allows you to adjust the sights without searching for a tool. I wonder if they are going to replicate the proper slide release upon fresh mag insertion..

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