Crazy_Harry Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 I'd be very surprised if SF forces don't do "deniable" jobs though- a son of a friend of mine at college (hey, he was a mature student- in his 80s actually...) is in a certain unit, and his payslips (cos they have to declare SOMETHING for tax purposes), during a four month period that he'd "gone on his hols" as his dad put it, were marked "toilet sanitation"- not bad money either, all things considered... anyhoo, we'll never know either way- it would sort of make sense to use AKs though, as they do apparently have a bit of a distinctive sound- one going off in the distance in a jungle in africa perhaps won't arouse as much suspicion as the sound of a HK or colt... who knows. All speculation, I suppose- still, if I was doing a modern SF look, it'd be some sort of pimpy shiney AKS for me... Link to post Share on other sites
Machineabuse Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Special forces personnel have been recruited by intelligence agencies in the past according to some literature, but they don't deploy as an organization I don't think. At least if they did they've excaped the scrutiny of my research Closest thing I can think of is the CIA's MACV. Link to post Share on other sites
Diemaco Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 No if the the SAS deploy on a deniable there are no reckords, and they are usually for assasinations cos they are illegal. This part of the SAS is a bit like delta, no1 knows about it, it doesn't exist. Link to post Share on other sites
Gene Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 anyhoo, we'll never know either way- it would sort of make sense to use AKs though, as they do apparently have a bit of a distinctive sound- one going off in the distance in a jungle in africa perhaps won't arouse as much suspicion as the sound of a HK or colt... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> AKs do indeed have a distictive sound, so you're probably right on that one. So Diemaco, how do you know about that unit. What makes you think they even exist? you said it yourself, they don't exist. Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy_Harry Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 hang on, lets think about this- we're posting in a thread that concerns civilian contractor look- now, the usual assumption is that civ cons are special forces types doing a bit of extra curricular activity. Now, given that they are normally getting paid for this, doesn't this make them mercenaries? so why don't we call them that? just a thought... Link to post Share on other sites
doc_newstead Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Now, given that they are normally getting paid for this, doesn't this make them mercenaries? so why don't we call them that? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The reason? It's considered an insult. A mercenary and a PMC both fight for a wage, but a mercenary, traditionally, doesn't care who is paying it, and why. You could argue semantics about the difference between the two, but to a contactor, being called a mercenary implies a lack of moral or ideological consideration. Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy_Harry Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 ah, ok that makes sense I suppose Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Exactly; "I'm a mercenary. Pay me enough money, and I'll kill babies, do ethnic clensing and pretty much work for anyone who pays me, regardless of idealogical bent" A Civ-con would subscribe to a similar moral code that most soldiers do, and refuse to carry out work that involved 'questionable operations'. Link to post Share on other sites
Diemaco Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Clandestine ops are the SAS's bred and butter, look it was in a Chriss Ryan book, ok, he an't gonna make stuff up and all his books are based on real life Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Clandestine ops are the SAS's bred and butter, look it was in a Chriss Ryan book, ok, he an't gonna make stuff up and all his books are based on real life <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Based on - the thecniques he espouses are realistic, but the events are mostly fictional. Link to post Share on other sites
doc_newstead Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 LOL! Of course he isn't. Publishers are only interested in the truth, not what sells hardbacks Link to post Share on other sites
Machineabuse Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 I would be quite selective about taking ex-SAS accounts for granted. Remember there are a lot of inconsistencies between the seperate accounts of the B20 incident. Who'se embellishing what we don't know. I'm inclined to believe that the parent units themselves don't get involved, but allow their personnel to be yoinked for use by the intelligence agencies. That way if things go tits up the parent unit can rightly deny involvement. At least that what seems to happen in a couple of soldier accounts. Link to post Share on other sites
Diemaco Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 LOL! Of course he isn't. Publishers are only interested in the truth, not what sells hardbacks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So, you saying that the SAS don't do deniable, next you'll be telling me that there is no such thing as The Increment Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 So, you saying that the SAS don't do deniable, next you'll be telling me that there is no such thing as The Increment <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm really, really praying you're being sarcastic in that post. Link to post Share on other sites
Diemaco Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 No I got the Elite Forces Dictionary today from WHSmiths in Manchester and it says that 'The Increment is a highly trained and selected group of SAS and SBS personnel specialising in intelligence-gathering and covert actions, detached from normal duties to carry out operations on behalf of SIS and MI6.' that is a quotation straight from the Elite Forces dictionary Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Hmm.... I was under the impression that the Increment was a ficitional creation of Chris Ryan. *Starts googling* Link to post Share on other sites
Diemaco Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 So was I, and please don't call me a liar I will post pics the digi-cam isn't at my step-dads work Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 I'm sorry, at what point did I call you a liar? I am pretty sure that Chris Ryan 'exaggerates' his tales, and I have never heard of 'The Increment' outside his books. I'm not doubting your word in the slightest that it appears in the book you mention. Link to post Share on other sites
Diemaco Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Right sorry for saying that I laughed when I saw it in the book too, yes he will exagerate tails, lets leave it at that so that the thread doesn't get locked If you want I will PM you pics of the book Link to post Share on other sites
HeuteGegangen Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 In Mil Photos we trust Is that a BHI Commando Recon Chest Rig? 5.11 seems to be popular. Grow a beard! Link to post Share on other sites
Machineabuse Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 No harm no foul. Discussion is healthy! Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Its the BHI plate carrier, not the recon harness. Link to post Share on other sites
Gene Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 In Mil Photos we trust <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Look at #10! it's an AK! Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Well I've just ordered my 5.11 Khaki trousers, so I should end up with something that could pass as a contractor set-up soon Link to post Share on other sites
xRAZERx Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 No I got the Elite Forces Dictionary today from WHSmiths in Manchester and it says that 'The Increment is a highly trained and selected group of SAS and SBS personnel specialising in intelligence-gathering and covert actions, detached from normal duties to carry out operations on behalf of SIS and MI6.' that is a quotation straight from the Elite Forces dictionary <{POST_SNAPBACK}> SIS and MI6 are the same thing. Never heard of the Increment outside of fiction. But like the CIA has a direct action unit I wouldn't be surprised if the box and girls from box didn't have their own sneaky beaky unit... But you won't find them in no book available from Smiths.... Link to post Share on other sites
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