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mightyjebus

PTW clones( DTW A&K etc)

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My KA cylinder fits just fine, as far as I can see the ball is the same size as my A&K cylinders. Maybe I'm expecting too much for a cheap clone part- with some maintenance I got it working again so I won't whine too much. Rotten A&K rack gears breaking suggests crappy manufacturing though - and for a tiny little piece of metal they are pricey to replace!

 

Ran a bunch of magazines through my guns last weekend. The MAG adjuster, once glued, gives nice consistent results. I had a few sideways fliers, but I'd switched to bio bb's of a different brand so not conclusive.

 

The orga flat gives really, really nice flights with no sideways shots, but some bb's get less hop and fall short. I will be trying it with heavier ones (.30 and .44) to see if it's true that it needs more weight to be consistent. I have my hopes up, as it's theoretically a good design, and doesn't need more than the stock cushioning.

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I'm guessing the KA & SHS ones can't be too bad as powair6 are selling rebuilt ones with a systema nozzle spring and fcc bearing sets...

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My G&D 9559S turned up this morning (not bad considering it was dispatched monday!).

 

Initial findings are:

 

Looks ok, got a grey magazine catch and bolt stop with a black body. It works, couldn't figure out how to program the burst mode but I was having fun with the bolt stop.

 

List of problems:

  • part of the castings on the upper/lower that don't line up (minor)
  • buffer tube loose
  • stock loose, a AEG G&P fitted perfectly...
  • buffer cap not shimmed - movement of the cylinder
  • ras loose (there was 0.5mm gap between the ras base and the barrel nut now currently filled with a rubber band!)
  • sounds ok on semi, but a bit high pitched on full (motor height or...)
  • gearbox looks dry
  • bb left in the hop when magazine removed
  • bolt stop seems loose - I can dry fire if I fiddle with it!
  • was running a 9.9v Life battery and had a suggestion of using more volts.

FPS was a little all over the place - it was as low as 355 and as high as 380ish on my crono, but I think my crono reads a little low anyway. I can't comment on range but using 0.2g BBs in the back garden is long enough to test the hop is lifting and they appear to drop off a little after an AEG would.

 

Luckily I have a friend with a Tact built 2014 systema to compare against (at some point!)

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Heh.  So yesterday my younger brother's 10" 2014 G&D keymod w/ USMC markings also came in the mail.  If  there is an interest, I can compare it to my A&K as well as what has become of my A&K.

 

As I've delved further and further into the individual components and assembly of my A&K I became more and more frustrated. Basically if I had an extra screw set, an extra buffer tube, and an extra pistol grip I could reassemble my A&K from the parts left over.

 

With that said, if there is genuine interest I could do a comparison between A&K, G&D, and a more or less from-scratch PTW.

 

My from-scratch at this point is a pretty nice gun and is deeply into the >$1k USD price range. As it sits:

 

FCC CNC Ambi Torque Gearbox w/ Midway "Race" trigger

A&K Buffer tube, castle nut, endplate, buffer cap, and A2 grip (waiting for better grip to come)

JG/Eagle Force High Torque Motor (unsure to get tac'd 490, etiny, or fcc 3.0 to replace)

G&P SR-16 M5 KAC-marked receiver set (warning: my magwell was too tight to fit ANY of my mags inside,  it requires HEAVY filing/sanding!)

FCC URX4 10" Keymod Rail (better replica, no double barrel nuts, significantly stronger, lighter, different diameter than G&D/BigDragon clones)

Dytac 12.5" Aluminum outer barrel w/ mid-length gas system (modified tackleberry style w/ systema indexing pin)

YHM Low Profile gas block (local gun shop had it cheaper than an airsoft replica)

RWA Custom CNC Hopup Unit (possibly the most beautifully machined hop I've ever seen)

King Arms M130 and M90 cylinders (o-ring overhaul and re-lubed)

DeepFire 320mm Stainless barrel (I want an Orga!)

Magpul CTR stock (mil-spec w/ ~20 hours of sanding, my com-spec MOE buttstock was really loose even w/ electrical tape on the inside)

Full etiny PTW electronics

Troy MBUIS

Vortex Strikefire 2 RDS

 

 

Unused/rejected parts:

The rest of my A&K

FCC Gen 2 Hop

FCC 385mm inner barrel (hop cut was not flush with wider section of barrel, leading to sticking points; also just a Vanaras rebrand, nothing special about it)

BigDragon URX4 10" rail (a good marui-spec rail but it is sharp! as well as thicker and heavier than a real URX4 or an FCC clone)

Magoul MOE stock

MAG CNC Hop Roller (RWA's looks and feels better as well as having shaped roller rubber instead of compressed tubing creating a concave shape)

 

 

As well as a few notes on the G&D 2014 model:

  • The endplate has no locking tab to keep the buffer tube indexed as well as missing the recessed portion to cover the receiver hole below the buffer tube.
  • The crane style stock will not fit the same turnigy nano-tech 25C 11.1v lipo that the A&K crane stock will (side compartments significantly smaller).
  • Stock and grip are made of the material I'd expect to see on a LPEG.  My pot-metal CYMA AK, my AGM M14, and WE M&P all have significantly better plastics.  The quality of the plastics that comes on the A&K is miles better.
  • The electronics are really cool!  The auditory confirmation is much more useful than etiny's flashing light on the trigger board since you don't have to open the gun.
  • Like mentioned before, the tube cap had NO shims.  Easy fix, turn buffer tube in one full turn, add .1mm shim (in my case).
  • Upper receiver has no radius/cut to accommodate the buffer tube endcap being at the proper depth.  The edge needs to be filed to fit.
  • Forearm did come improperly indexed and loose.  Index with a spare carrying handle and tighten the nut visible through the handguard at the base with a Knight's Armament (KAC) wrench or a hammer and punch.
  • There's no gas block!  Nor is there a provision for one.  The barrel is a constant diameter after the chamber area.  A special HBAR gas block would need to be modified to fit (expensive).
  • Gearbox/Motor sounds not great, but not terribly heinous either. Should sound better with use.
  • The receivers are crazy lightweight, even lighter than the A&K receivers.  The finish is also rough to the touch, unlike hard coat anodizing or cerakote. The A&K had a smoother, more realistic finish to the receivers but the paint durability was notably worse.
  • The bolt catch on the 2014 G&D still has trouble engaging.
  • It didn't come with a hop adjustment tool!
  • Out of the box (post-buffer shimming) it was very consistent.  Good accuracy with .2g BBs, 3fps deviation window
  • 379-382 fps, 16.3 rounds/second (978 rounds/min) with 11.1V 25C turnigy nano-tech according to Xcortech X3200w
  • Like 1

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A little follow-up on the Orga flat hop -- in my A&K I've gamed it for several hours more now, and I didn't notice any bb's falling short. Maybe a few did without my noticing, but I was trying to pay attention, and I had a few opportunities to do some target plinking and I'm really, really happy with it. I'll keep breaking it in and hopefully it'll keep me happy. Still need to try my heavier bb's out but all in good time...

 

Actually had a guy ask me what year my Systema was - guess it looked like it was playing the part well enough!

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Another (further) update on the Orga flat adjuster - finally spent some range-test time and although it's better than when I first installed it, some bb's were still getting a little more or less hop than others. This was using 0.25's

 

Switched to 0.30g Green Devils and absolutely, definitely made this way more consistent. THIS is the accuracy I have been wanting in my guns since I started playing airsoft. Reminds me why I was shooting 0.30's a year ago when my AEG's hopup could still lift them...

 

With a nice, though not perfect, flat trajectory (just a tiny overhop to reach a little further) I'm getting 200 feet (yes, I actually did measure, this was at a range not at a game) with my M110 cylinder. I want one of these to pair with my M130 now, I will not regret the $55 purchase price of the Orga flat adjuster, I'm sold.

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You did indeed, that's the only reason I even tried it- but now I'm so glad I did!

 

Also, was surprised I didn't really need to adjust the hopup when going up to 0.30s, most any AEG would need to push harder on the hopup arm, but the Orga flat seemed to "just work"

 

Lovin' the A&K now, so far no issues with electronics or motor, although I've picked up a second hand motor and some odd bits like replacement brush spring posts, etc. to have on hand just in case. Only big disappointment was the cheap Saber plastic PTW magazines I got, which came without followers, and don't feed at all, chop chop chop :( gonna have to stretch the springs and see if they can be revived that or some other way.

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Here,

My 2012 ptw hop and barrel is performing as good as I'd like.

Should I disassemble and glue the hop cushion?

 

On another note, I received my dtw mini fet.

But after watching my friends burn on (has the programmable ecu) I'm a little dubious to fit mine.

The old style wire provided caused the motor to spin on it's own.

New style wire yielded nothing at all.

Original wire causes the red light and nothing else.

His was a gen1 dtw.

Mine is gen2 with programmable ecu.

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I have the impression that the G&D MAX3S suffers from more bad QC then the first batch...

 

@ mightyjebus : in your opinion what's the best TW... A&K or G&D? And I mean more like which one is the easiest to work with...

 

Want to venture in the whole TW-world but not like when I started with my WE close bolt M4... That shot straight an consistent after the 1k € mark...

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I would go for the A&K simply because of the compatability of the A&K to the Systema. The DTW feels like and AEG whereas the A&K feels like a Systema.

 

I'm not knocking the DTW as I have 3 now but I would probably buy a A&K over the G&D if I was after another. Whatever version you buy expect to spend a little time and money getting it just right.

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Whew so I've used my franken-TW and a second A&K TW as well as my brother's G&D DTW MAX3 10.5" keymod each for two games now (and my franken-TW for 3 days of ~5 games each).  The subject of each paragraph is bolded so that you can skim for relevant information.

 

 

Regarding Feeding Issues and Magazines/BBs.

 

I found the two big feeding issues were magazines and bbs. 

 

The G&D magazines feed well in the DTW but are dismal in my PTW and A&K TW.  A&K magazines are incredibly inconsistent in assembly which leads to feeding issues. 

 

I purchased 5 individually packaged A&K magazines from another local retailer.  All magazines felt and looked identical in identical packaging.  However, 3/5 of the magazines had the 2-spring design which fed well.  The other two had a single long spring inside and frequently jammed forcing removal and banging on trees/kneepads then they would feed fine for 3-4 rounds and jam again.  The A&K magazines have longer feed lips and require hop units with more exaggerated feeding lip 'ramps'.  The bolt stop mechanism on both DTW magazines arrived broken and both magazines have very loose retaining pins.

 

Vanaras polymer magazines feed 100% in all my TW rifles with one caveat.  The foam cushion at the bottom of each magazine MUST have the backing peeled off and be attached to the floorplate. The magazine spring MUST be reversed from factory assembly so the narrow 'closed' end is secured around the spring guide and the 'open' square end (which you should close a bit with pliers) is placed beneath the follower.  If the spring is not reversed, unless you break in the magazines first there is a chance that the spring behind the follower will turn perpendicular to feed direction and jam.  This happened to 2/10 of my magazines.  After those two mods the Vanaras polymer mags are now my most reliable and trusted magazine.  The Vanaras mags use one long spring, so switching in MAG heavy springs is impossible unless you can find Systema spring couplers.  However so far they have fed everything up to .3g flawlessly.  The Vanaras mags also have a BB follower that is attached to the flat spring follower so you can't lose it or shoot it off!  They are also the cheapest non-Saber mags I have found.  RSOV express shipping (which was overnight via DHL to Utah, USA from Hong Kong) was USD $60 for a box of 10 mags.  The drawbacks are that the inner assemblies are glued together rather than screwed together, but the easy spring and follower removal makes it 100% worth it IMO.  The inner assemblies fit in my A&K shells but the retaining pins are very tight and require the use of a hammer and punch to seat.  The Vanaras magazines do not use pins, which makes checking ammo levels in your current mag (the inners are translucent) while respawning a breeze.  The inner assembly is also pinnable so that the follower stops at 30, 60, or 120 rounds.  This means you can pin a capacity and never worry about over-filling your magazines.

 

Top down: G&D, A&K, Vanaras

iA70p2SVz59r3.jpg

 

I had read on various local USA forums that TSD, MetalTech, and Goldenball were all about 80% surety on feeding.  I did not find this to be the case.  Out of desperation I grabbed some G&G perfect BBs from my local shop (literally walking distance, and 8k of .25g is USD $21 so a nice price) and guess what?  No more feeding issues ever!  Some people claim that the G&Gs have a slightly smaller diameter, but my caliper begs to differ.  I measured bbs on hand with a sample of 20 bbs from each bag using a Lyman digital caliper.

 

Goldenball .2g, .23g bio, .25g, .3g:   5.95+-.015mm   high polish, no dust  (chops all weights, surprisingly bios had least chopping)

TSD Competition Grade .28g:          5.95+-.015mm  v. high polish, lots of dust  (chops only on burst/auto)

G&G Perfect .25g white:                   5.95+-.011mm  v. high polish, no discernible dust (no chops)

Lancer Tactical .2g Glow:                 5.96+-.02mm    med. high polish, lots of dust, poisonous smell in bag  (chops 90% of the time, usually 3-4 chunks)

Lancer Tactical .25g white:               5.95+-.02mm    med. high polish, very little dust  (50% chopping)

Matrix (Evike) .2g Glow Red:           5.95+-.015mm   high polish, trace amounts of dust  (less than 2 chops/120 round magazine)

 

I just thought I'd share that info.  Testing for chop was pre-measurement, and I had about 2000 bb's to clean up off my floor afterwards.

 

 

Regarding the JG/Golden Eagle (JGM-104) Motor

 

This motor has survived past 10000 rounds (plus about 1500 dry cycles) in my PTW.  Using Etiny 3.0 electronics (full set) the motor does not stop properly WITHOUT the cylinder (double cycle) in semi automatic, but stops fine with the cylinder in semi and auto/burst.  It stops fine WITH the cylinder in all modes.  The motor does not have any epoxy at the commutator crimps and no signs of balancing via metal removal in the armatures, but the armatures do have marker lines, so there may be some rudimentary balancing via windings.  Cycle rate is much higher (around 3 rounds/second more) than G&D and A&K motors even though it is much more torque-oriented.  I have no doubt this motor can pull an M150 just fine, even on auto.

 

 

Regarding A&K vs G&D and Parts Compatibility in the G&D MAX3 Models

 

Receivers from the top down:  G&D, A&K, G&P

ibf8nkaSRJ2DCk.jpg

 

G&D MAX3: The MAX3 has far superior electronics but they are still not compatible with Etiny/FCC/Systema.  The G&D has a mil-spec buffer tube which the A&K DOES NOT.  The G&D has better paint and laser markings on the receivers if that matters to you.  There is considerable side-to-side play at the front receiver pin on the G&D.  The G&D gear profiles ARE NOT compatible with Systema/A&K/FCC.  A simple parts swap and hand-turn test will confirm that the G&D gears have a slightly different tooth profile and any non-G&D gears increased geartrain resistance and whine by a huge margin.  It will work, but it is probably not the best option.  This also applies to the selector assembly.  The selector parts are not interchangeable with A&K or Systema unless you want the selector to be incredibly difficult to move.  The receivers are fully Systema compatible, but they feel lighter and flimsier than G&P or A&K.  With proper torque on the cylinder lock bearing, you can see some flex in the lower receiver when closing the rifle.  The gearbox shell is finished to a higher standard than the A&K shell, but the assembly deviates from Systema spec and there is a distinct lack of proper shimming/bearing use on the G&D bevel gear.  The G&D bolt stop is laughable  and may as well be made of cardboard.  The G&D spring for the bolt stop is equally pitiful.  The G&D uses a Systema/Real-spec barrel nut.

 

The A&K buffer tube does not even have the correct profile for real stocks, but com-spec stocks will fit with a good amount of wobble.  The problem is the keyed portion of the tube.  The radii leading into the length-adjustable keyed portion from the tube itself are far too large so the lower portion has smooth curves all the way down the sides rather than a squared interface.  The difference in design is visible below by just looking at the G&D and A&K buttstocks.  Mil-spec stocks will fit with major sanding (I have a Magpul CTR stock on my A&K tube).  The A&K receivers are compatible with Systema/FCC/G&P/Velocity/Prime except for the A&K upper. The rear lug of the A&K upper will need to be filed down to fit FCC/Systema/G&D.  The A&K internals are... okay.  The gearbox may need some wearing-in but after an initial break-in (be sure to clean it after a few thousand cycles since there will probably be light metal and paint dust) it operates smoothly.  The quality of materials used in the A&K rifle is leaps and bounds superior to G&D's offering, except for the cylinder.  The piston rack broke on both my A&K rifles (and I believe on DipTwit's A&K as well).  The A&K internals are fully compatible with Systema/Etiny/FCC with the exception of the trigger board and buffer tube MOSFET, which should be replaced since the A&K MOSFET design is incredibly weak as well as gigantic.  The A&K uses a marui-spec barrel nut.

 

G&D left, A&K right.  Notice the A&K's off-spec curves where the adjustment rail meets the tube.

ivplqtLy3PxMu.jpg

 

The A&K Receiver must be filed here to fit a Systema lower receiver.

ib1uhHALWrlOQh.jpg

 

As for G&D vs A&K, I'd have to give the nod to A&K.  Both suffer from QC issues (my first rifle was a lemon) but the A&K's parts compatibility makes it a million times easier to fix.  Another nod to the A&K is the superior hop.  The G&D uses the pre-2012 Systema ultra skinny design and the hop rubber is incredibly loose.  The A&K hop cage has less flex and a better roller.  Both rifles retail for about the same price, and by the time you get a fore-end trick out the A&K with keymod like some of the G&Ds have, the A&K is more expensive.  Is that expense worth it over the G&D?  Well, if you want a more reliable and modular rifle and want the ability to use the highest quality parts then absolutely.  If you're fine with replacing parts more often but having the parts be cheaper, then the G&D is for you.

 

 

The Red Wolf Airsoft Custom Hop Unit

 

Holy Moses this hop unit is sweet.  Going from a Systema 2012 unit with MAG roller to the RWA custom unit is like going from a King Arms M4 hop to an R-hopped rifle with a Lonex hop cage.  The difference is night and day.  My PTW with this hop, a 12.5" DeepFire barrel, 400fps, and G&G .25g bbs consistently out ranges local airsofters using r-hopped Ajax Customs (upgraded and tuned KWA) rifles shooting 550fps.  The build quality of this hop unit is to die for, and it has larger feeding lip 'ramps' so it works with every magazine I've thrown at it.  I haven't used the Orga hop to compare, but flat hop trajectory for .25g bb's is about 40% of the dial, and .28g bb's will reach for the sky after about four meters with the hop full on.  Effective range for me on a torso-sized target is about 80 meters with .25g BBs.  No doubt it would be a bit more with a bump to a heavier BB or better barrel.  After the last game, a few people tried my rifle and the general consensus was, "I'm glad we were on the same team."

 

A gratuitous shot of my rifle:

iffXOuZ1O8cQl.jpg

 

Oh and greetings from Utah.  Here was the group photo from the game on August 16, 2014.

iXKo3SAyxzaJl.jpg

 

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Sweet write-up!

 

Magazine / bb / chopping info is a godsend, getting my mags to feed reliably has spent more of my time than anything else. I went with second-hand pmags and noticed a big difference in reliability between different internals. Luckily for me, the A&K mags have never given me grief (except a missing bolt-stop lever in one) and I even put one of my A&K inners into a PMAG once I gave up on the inner that came with it.

 

I bought some of those cheap plastic Saber magazines, and have almost no luck getting them to work. They chopped badly from the start, stretching the springs helped a bunch, but didn't last for long, and the bolt-stop levers in them bind up badly when you tighten the screws that hold the inner together - sloppy manufacturing all around. Add the fact that the inners aren't interchangeable with any other mags and I regret buying them!

 

You were right that one of my A&K rack gears snapped completely - looking at the replacement cost of such a silly little part, I tried gluing it back together. CA (Super / Krazy glue) didn't work at all, but next I tried JB Weld, and it's been solid ever since, though I just keep that cylinder in my bag as a backup.

 

Also, it's been mentioned before but worth pointing out, the A&K cylinder body has really soft threads on both ends... don't disassemble / reassemble any more than necessary, one of mine only barely holds the rear cap on now. So far though, the rest of the cylinder innards have been just fine.

 

I like hearing how various upgrade products work, so I'll mention the other stuff I've bought - both King Arms and PPS after-market cylinders had manufacturing defects that would keep me from buying them again, so I'm hoping someone chimes in about Super Speed (?) and ALPHA brands. Orga flat adjuster is DA BOMB, so I'd love to compare with that Red Wolf one someday. And despite any differences in barrel nut specs, a Madbull DD rail went on just great.

 

Cheers!

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Great write-up!

 

Having some issues with my A&K using Green devil 0.28 g.

Does anyone else have this problem?

It fires around 10 bbs correct, then starts chopping 1 bb.

eventually enought chopped bbs build up inside the barrel leading to jam.

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I have no problems with Green Devil .30's but when I do experience chopping, it's generally the magazine.

 

I've stretched the springs on the mags that I bought second hand, that fixed it for most of them. The A&K mags I bought new haven't been an issue.

 

I've also found in some environments the mags got lots of dust in them and needed cleaning out to feed well again.

 

Not sure if that is your problem as well, but I've heard of very few people having issues with Green Devils, so hopefully it's helpful.

 

Dip

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Well in the interest of science (and because I can't stop tinkering) I now have both RWA and Orga hops.  But I'm having a bit of a problem.  To try and keep things a bit consistent I put the Orga hop in the RWA hop chamber using the RWA hop packing but every bb overhops a lot.  In short, using .28g at 435fps I could consistently hit a target 9 feet above my point of aim at ~70 feet of distance... with the hop off.  Have any of you guys experienced this problem?  Looking down the barrel, it does seem that I can't get the center of the hop rubber to be as recessed as my RWA hop.  The bottom of the cage on the Orga ring is also noticeably thicker than my RWA ring.  Think the RWA packing is too thick?

 

Also Alpha cylinders are listed on Evike as Celcius parts.  I have used only King Arms cylinders to this point and haven't noticed any trouble other than them being very very loud and sounding sort of screechy and noisy.  My KA M90 cylinder has the old stye piston head with just the screw fastening to the head from inside the piston; but my KA M130 cylinder has a normal PTW attachment with the sleeve from the front of the PH fastening to a separate screw inside the body of the piston.  All KA cylinders ship bone dry and untightened so the lock bearing (rear ball) and the piston head screws all need to have loctite applied and be tightened down as well as the entire thing needing lube.  I like to tighten the lock bearing until I cannot press it in at all with my thumb, to ensure the best lock possible.  This makes it very difficult to open and close the rifle, but it ensures positive function.  The flange around the loading nozzle also seems to need a little sanding since it was rubbing quite strongly against my hop chamber to the point where the cylinder needed a nudge to seat all the way inside the upper receiver.

 

What defects have you noticed?  I'd very much like to know so that I can keep an eye on my cylinders.  I would bite the bullet and buy a Systema cylinder and just swap springs when I needed <300fps for night games but the airsoft canada forums report that newer Systema cylinders have a manufacturing problem with piston vertical movement and will all fail in time.

 

The A&K cylinders are indeed incredibly soft.  I never had problems with the threads (I keep compression pressure on the spring during tightening the entire time as well as wait for positive and easy thread engagement; habits from machining) but BB fragments will easily scratch the cylinder walls as I learned the hard way.

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Re: the video, a minor point - I couldn't see the gearbox much as your right hand obscured it a lot. Maybe a higher camera angle?

 

Also, from your intro I was expecting you to point out which parts of the gearbox aren't up to Systema standards and should be upgraded, but all you did was show it, then put it back together. I have always been curious, since my A&K doesn't sound as smooth as a Systema, which gears are likely the culprits... so I had my hopes up of seeing a little more analysis.

 

Quite a bit of time in the video was spent re-assembling (I actually finally skipped over much of it) but a beginner would need to know how to disassemble it before he could follow along with what you're doing at the beginning of the video. Maybe split the difference, and show disassembly and trim down the re-assembly time? Not 100% sure on that one, since there are other videos out there which focus on that part.

 

Overall, I was hoping for a little more suggestions / evaluation of individual parts for replacement, than just the e-tiny board. Still a good video and good first start though!

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Thing is that I got these components after much research last week and I thought it might be a good idea to keep my camera running while I reassembled everything. It was a lot of fiddling around and I encountered some minor problems along the way. I did not specifically disassemble my PTW for the purpose of making a video tutorial. My DSLR camera kept on shutting off every 12 minutes or so and I did not look at the display all the time to see if everything was still in frame.

 

I thought that I mentioned and explained what I replaced in the video though? Maybe I focussed too much on the Etiny kit.

 

Here is the overall replacement list:

 

-FCC 3.0 Motor (Much stronger than A&K motor and better designed, less likely to fail, pulls springs up to M150 with ease, even with the A&K Gearbox, you need the original A&K pinion gear for that though)

 

-Etiny Kit (Handles high currents better, is smaller, sensor is more accurate and compatible with tuning motors. A&K electronics will not cope with FCC Motor or Systema Motor)

 

-FCC Hop Up Gen. 1 (Better airseal, better consistency, better quality, Hop Up Roller is a bit better also)

 

-MAG curved roller adjuster for the Hop Up (Better than FCC roller due to the round shape, more accuracy and consistency)

 

- EdGi inner barrel 6,01 SPR 460mm length (more FPS, more range, more accuracy)

 

While there may be other combinations out there, this one performs flawlessly so far and make my A&K PTW perform just as well as a Systema, but for about half the price.

Edited by Alkany

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Hey thanks, that helps a lot - and I apologize because as I said, I skimmed over some of the reassembly so I missed some of the other parts.

 

I'm really glad you found the gearbox was good as it was... mine is a little noisy so I'll probably have a local PTW doc give me his opinion.

 

I have the MAG adjuster as well, but found the side-to-side consistency wasn't there, which surprised me as its shape seems like it should be good for that. I got much better results with the Orga flat adjuster, but I'm still on a stock hopup and barrel so maybe I need to look into those.

 

Wait, what!???!? The A&K gearbox doesn't mate with the pinion on FCC / Systema motors? This is the first I've heard of this... is it just the FCC 3.0 that's different, or what's the scoop there?

 

Thanks for all the info, this kinda stuff is like gold for those of us trying to make the best of our clone...

Dip

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Have you removed all of the excessive grease from the factory? Maybe you should also check if the shimming of the bevel gear is correct. I actually removed one of the shims and tightened the screws a bit more than usual. This gave me a better result.

 

With the MAG adjuster you have to use superglue to glue the rubber in. Only use superglue that does not damage the rubber though and most importantly be very careful in applying it. You do not want anything to get anywhere else and especially not onto the side thats going to face the BB. The barrel and the hop up were the first things I replaced. I can only recommend that. Everything else, such as the motor and electronics is more or less optional. It really depends on what performance and reliability you expect. What might be a wise course of action if you want to save money at first is to only upgrade motor and electronics once they fail. Keep in mind though that if your motor fails and you decide to replace that with a higher performance motor, the A&K ECU especially will not keep up with the performance. That will cause malfunctions, such as random bursts.

 

No, the bevel gear and the pinion gear by A&K have a slightly curved shape while the FCC gears are much more straight. If you install the FCC pinion it will most likely destroy your A&K bevel gear. So if you want to upgrade your motor, you need a lighter and heat up the little set screw pretty good until you see the loctite coming out. Then you should get a 1,5mm allen key and remove the screw. Be sure to remember the pinion gear height. As for the shape of a Systema Pinion gear I do not know, but I am pretty sure that they are also straight as FCC claims that all of their parts are 100% compatible with Systema.

Whats more is that if you happen to lose the Pinion gear by A&K or damage it during removal you are pretty much in bad luck. Spare parts from A&K are almost impossible to get and since Systema and FCC gears do not seem to fit inside the A&K gearbox you would have to purchase a Systema or FCC gearbox. 

Now I have been told that the FCC gearbox should fit into the latest version of the A&K PTW with almost no modification needed. However, the same thing was claimed for the FCC 3.0 Motor. I spend half an hour filing and dremeling the motor mount though, so that may also not be true.

Edited by Alkany

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One other thing, as for reliability I have had two A&K PTWs so far. One Gen. 2 for the Austrian Market which performed flawlessly and had about 20000 rounds through it when I sold it. Only sold it because I will be moving back to Germany soon and they only allow semi-automatic versions there with the infamous "F"-Mark indicating that its a "free" weapon. Only thing I changed with the old one was the innerbarrel and the Hop Up.

So I bought a new one in Germany. The German market has actually gotten a new "Gen.2+" if you will. Improvements were a better body, a better heatsink for the mosfet, a slightly better motor and tighter production tolerances overall. So now this is the one that I upgraded in the video. It performed poorly out of the box. They shiming of the buffertube endcap was not correct, so I had a few misfires and even though they claimed that the motor was supposed to be better I thought it didnt sound as smooth as the first one. So I decided to do the full upgrade.

What I am trying to say is that you should test your A&K PTW for a few hundred rounds once you get it. The most problems that occur are apparent from the very beginning. Thats what I gathered from my own experience and from several forums. If you do determine problems, depending on how major they are and how good the service of your reseller is, send it back in right away and demand fixing or a replacement.

With A&Ks quality control quite a lot of "lemons"make it to the customer, which is why you can sometimes get guns that run forever and others that dont.

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