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PTW clones( DTW A&K etc)

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Also, as for the BB chopping issue, I have some extra points that you may find interesting. Check if your outer barrel sits in the upper receiver correctly. Also remove the outer barrel completely and insert the inner barrel with the Hop Up unit into it. Do the nobs of the Hop Up unit fit into the gaps properly without any play? If they dont, use some tape to fill the gaps. 

Check if the shimming of your buffertube endcap is correct. Shoot the gun without the magazin and check if the cylinder has any play. If it moves slightly, add more shims to the endcap. If you dont have any, screw the buffertube in one more turn and remove existing shims accordingly. You should also still be able to separate the upper from the lower by just using your thumb with a little bit of force.

Moreover, also check the nozzle as you look down the mag well. Does it move correctly? Is it too short or maybe even too long? Check the nozzle for damage. Even a slightly damaged nozzle can chop BBs. Also open up your cylinder and clean all the BB fragments out of it, so your pistonhead and nozzle can move freely. 

Another issue can, of course, be the magazines. Most magazines, including Systemas, are not meant for BBs weighing more than 0,25. If you own A&K Mags with the two seperate springs, purchase the MAG "strong type" main magazine spring kit. This will most likely resolve your problem.

Also check if the little retention holders of the magazine and the little springs below them are still intact. If they are damaged, replace them. You may also check the magazine lips for excessive wear. If one of them is damaged, your hop up is not positioned correctly. If you need to move your hop up back a bit, put one small oring on the inner barrel right in front of the hop up and stick it back into the outer, also make sure to remove a shim from the endcap accordingly.

Last thing I can think of is in general BBs. The only brand that I trust my PTW with is G&G 0,28 Bios, they are amazing. All other brands such as Elite Force, Bioval, King Arms, etc. only made chopping a lot worse.


Hope I could help :)

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I'm not going to strip the cylinder and hop yet (later tonight). This is just a quick look at the cylinder, hop and barrel and the externals of the gearbox.   The Cylinder is blue anodised and well

It always amazes me the way people think that because the Systema is $1500 it's actually worth $1500. Do you really think it costs Systema more than a couple of hundred dollars to make? Do you think

ok on with the rest of part 2.   I had a look at the gearbox and electrics today. Some good news and some bad news but to keep you in suspense I'll put the bad news nearer the bottom. No sneak peeki

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Wow, I didn't know there were that many incompatibilities... now my curiosity is up!


I have 2 A&K guns, both bought from a Canadian reseller, not sure what 'market' segment it came from, except that it came stock with an M150 cylinder. Neither one has suffered a failure of any kind (except a broken rack gear in one of the cylinders, even after I downgraded it to M110 so I think it was cracked)


I do, however, have an FCC and a genuine Tackleberry-modded Systema motor I picked up to make sure I never go down due to the infamous motor problem. Now I have to go look at them and scrutinize the pinion gears to see if my stock A&K pinion differs the way yours does...  :nosleep:


I might also disassemble my gearbox, check grease levels, even try a genuine bevel gear to see if it fits. Burning out the electronics might well be the result of upgrading the motor, but from the sounds of it I'd better budget for an eTiny down the road anyways.


For now though, I'm gonna keep putting rounds through them and watch for failures. I'd hazard a guess I'm over 5000 rounds through one, and 3000 through the other.

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If you do have an M150 cylinder I am inclined to think that you either have a Gen.1 A&K PTW or maybe there is more market differences. Overhere the Gen.1 also had the M150 cylinder as standard. 


Well, see the excessive grease can eventually cause problems. If any of that ###### gets onto the outside of your sector gear and covers the indicator holes your ECU sensor will not be able to detect full cycles as reliably anymore. You will get random bursts then. So its always good to clean the gearbox.


I personally do not see why you guys overthere would get a different gearbox though, especially if you really have a Gen.1. So I think you may end up with the same proprietary pinion gear as the rest of us in Europe.

Edited by Alkany
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The FCC pinion will work with the A&K box, it just won't sound that great.  I have the A&K pinion on my JG motor which feeds my FCC CNC gearbox just fine.  Note that my FCC gearbox is the torque type (larger sun gear and different tooth count on bevel to match) so that my ROF does not exceed the magazine's feeding speed since I use only .25 to .3g BBs.


The FCC gears are MUCH stronger than the A&K gears so the A&K bevel will wear itself to fit the FCC/Systema pinion.  My A&K pinion now has straight teeth rather than a slight helical arrangement and is very quiet.


I also bought one of Celcius' new Storm 4.8 motors to try out.  I don;t really trust them as a company or producer, but I must admit the fit and finish of the motor appears very good.  It;s also incredibly hard to turn by hand so hopefully that is the magnets and not just poor manufacturing.  Unfortunately, none of my grips fit around the protruding sides of the motor.  I didn't want to drop the money on an FCC motor because I still do NOT trust bolts/screws tangential to the armature.  Structurally, having the bolts axial to the armature is significantly stronger.  But the Celcius motor was cheap, is rated for 16-18V, and they claim 48k rpm.  My JG motor is still going strong with ~15000 rounds on it now.


RWA hop unit is back in and Orga is out.  Today I did a lot of laying low and out-ranging people.  There were constant shouts of "sniper!" and I just thought, "guess again."

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Guess I will spend some bench time testing motors out- maybe that's a winter project lol


I don't know what gen mine are but I did hear several stories about problems with gen 1 and I've had none so far, so I'm not going to worry too much about it.


I have fought a bit with bb chopping but it could just be weak springs in the magazines, not sure.


Deadwood, are you saying the Orga barrel wasn't a good upgrade? Wondering why you took it out?

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Not Orga barrel, just Orga hop unit.  I use a DeepFire SS barrel in my PTW.  Once you superglue the sleeve to the barrel itself (deepfire just cuts their AEG barrels to PTW chamber end and supplies an outer sleeve) it works quite well.  My outer barrel is 12.5 inches so an Orga barrel is not very practical since they'd cut it and I'd probably lose the crown.

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Anyone know if the DTW 2014 electronics are interchangeable with say etiny?


The ecu light is on but nothing happens, have tested the motor and that's fine, I'm guessing the mosfet part but I've been modding the ecu as the bolt catch switch wasn't the correct type (as far as I could tell I needed a push to break, instead of push to make) so wondering if I managed to damage something there.


Is there anyway to test mosfet?


Otherwise I'll buy a complete etiny setup...

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The bolt catch absolutely needs to be push to make.  when the switch is pushed, that is like the bolt lever (key word being lever) being pressed into the receiver.  When the bolt catch is OUT, that is what happens when a magazine is empty and the electronics cut out.  With your current switch (push to break) the gun will only fire with the bolt catch in the 'mag empty' position.

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Lyng, do you have a link to the systema White o-ring?


Have started getting feeding issues with my A&K. had it for 6 months and shot around 2k bbs.

First it worked great, then it started chooping and now it doesnt feed.

Tried changing cylinder but nothing happened.


If i take out the cylinder and Close the gun, the mag feed bbs to the hop up unit, but they never go completely into the hop up. They get stuck half way into the unit.

Therefore if the cylinder would be in, it would press only half a bb as they come up half way to where the nozzle moves.

Have tried changing shims on the buffertube endcap but no difference.


Edit: Thanks for the great help guys!

Have been trying to localize the problem on my blaster, but can't seem to get a grip on it.

Are the bbs supposed to stop half way in the hop up unit?

The channel from that goes from the Magazine to where the nozzle moves.

Edited by Erka92
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The bolt catch absolutely needs to be push to make.  when the switch is pushed, that is like the bolt lever (key word being lever) being pressed into the receiver.  When the bolt catch is OUT, that is what happens when a magazine is empty and the electronics cut out.  With your current switch (push to break) the gun will only fire with the bolt catch in the 'mag empty' position.


I think I understand! I did try with the switch in both positions - if I can't fire the gun i should be able to program the ECU (which I cant do either!). I did find the bolt catch very sensitive which was trying to sort out! Thanks.

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You need to check or change the chamber packing to fix what your saying, its the bucking lips that is going to far inside the chamber.







O-ring for the pistonhead:


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I've asked powair6 about the compatibility warning on there website about the etiny mosfet and it's not the greatest english but here is what they said:




No it will burn the mosfet i many cases. G&D guns are nos shaped like PTW......
There is no warranty if you mount it yourself, so you can make the test yourself at your own risk. 


Not sure I understand the shape thing, I wonder if the 2014's are any better or just play it safe!


Does anyone know about testing pinouts on the ecu/mosfet too?

Edited by richwuk
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If I was you I would just change out the entire electronics. If you mix components of various manufacturers you always run into some problems along the way. While it may work at first, the reliability of your gun wont be as good. 

In general, most manufacturers use the same components on the ECU and mosfet though. Its just the programming that will be different. My A&K electronics for instance could not handle the speed and power of my FCC motor, so I encountered some malfunctions such as bursts on fast semi-triggering.


The entire etiny electronics kit on powair6.com is incredibly cheap. Just save yourself the trouble and buy the whole thing. Its not always wise to save a few bucks.

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Not sure how prevalent this is, but I seem to have finally solved my chopping issues - I threw out my A&K hopup chamber base!


I had noticed & posted before about how the hopup seemed to be at a slight angle... well I'm now convinced that the whole base was screwed. Since the bump on the top which holds the chamber in the outer barrel was slightly off, basically the whole chamber was sitting at a bit of an angle, so the magazine wasn't sitting nice and straight / flush against the hopup. That's my theory anyway.


I picked up a second-hand combination of FCC hopup and I think Systema CQB barrel. Swapped them around in my two guns, and so far eliminated chopping by taking the worse of the two A&K hopups out completely. I think the other A&K is a tiny bit off as well, but not as bad. I have a replacement chamber base coming from ehobby just to be sure.


Also cleaned out my cylinder of debris (surprised how much got in there) and now I'm shooting chop-free, even with a couple mags that caused the most chopping previously.


And yes, I am starting to think a real Systema would have been a good idea, but the truth is, I've learned a ton, and still spent less, from my adventure with clones...

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Be careful with outer barrels in the A&K upper receiver. On my receiver the centering pin cutout was rotated to about the 11:50 position and the A&K barrel was pinned to match, but a dytac or Systema outer barrel would not have the hop chamber groove centered because of it. I'm not sure if a systems or FCC complete rifle would have been better since people end up replacing electronics, motor, hop chamber, and packing anyway. The Systema receivers aren't anything to write home about either.


Plus the learning aspect is worth a lot. I've had 3-4 people ask me if they should sell their current rifles and get a PTW after using mine, and PTW gundocs are quite rare. The knowledge you gain could well pay back in the long run!

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I've localized my problem.


It seems to be that my mags feed perfect when I press and hold the Magazine in.

When i just put the mag in the gun and let it hang by the mag release, there is a bit of wobble and the mag is not high enough to feed into the hop up chamber base.

Got an FCC outer barrel in my A&K and that might make the Magazine not sitting flush against the hop up chamber base.

But why had it performed to nice untill now..

This might strenghten Diptwits theory.

Anyway, got an Kastman Hop up on the way, will see if it Changes anything.


Any theory how to fix this?

Anyone who's had a similar problem?


Thanks for all the ideas.

This is far the best Place for information on the A&K TW.

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That's really weird... it would suggest your FCC outer is holding the hopup chamber higher in the receiver than a stock outer barrel... I wouldn't think there is enough room in there for the barrel to differ by that much!


I have PMAGs that literally have to be pushed in order to lock in with the mag release catch, and while the stock A&K ones click in pretty easily, I think they press snugly against the hopup chamber once they're in, so I don't think any 'wiggle room' is normal. If you're using the same hopup chamber as before, you'll definitely want to start swapping parts to be *sure* it's the outer barrel that's the culprit.


Maybe place the inner/hopup into the outer while out of the gun, and use a caliper to compare measurements against the stock outer barrel??

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  • 1 month later...

In a heartbeat, I won't go back to AEGs. I would consider going Systema if I didn't already have these now.


You can get a solid used 2008+ package with mags for $1200, sometimes even with a modded motor, and you'd be able to stop fussing over equipment and just play...


Just my two cents

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Yeah, a PTW system is always superior to a normal AEG. You can swap out your cylinders to adjust for different circumstances, CQB or woodgame. You have a smart trigger that lets you trigger extremly fast. There are no gearjams at all, no matter what you do. The Hop-Up will deliver much more consistent and accurate shots down range due to its solid and great design. 


If I were you, I would get an A&K PTW. Swap out the inner barrel and Hop Up for an ORGA Widebore, FCC HU and the ORGA Flathop Adjuster. Also downgrade the spring to an FCC M100-115, polish the standard cylinder inside to get a smooth and even surface, change out the o-ring on the piston head for a Systema, apply some teflon tape on the cylinderhead for better airseal.

You will get ranges of 70 Metres+ combined with extreme accuracy and a really nice trigger response if you downgrade to the M100 spring even with the stock motor.


You do not have to upgrade anything else if you receive a reasonable gun that made it through quality control properly. If something else fails, such as the motor or the electronics(Mosfet, ECU) upgrade to FCC or Etiny parts as you go. Best thing is that you learn a lot about your system on the go.

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