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PTW clones( DTW A&K etc)


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I'm not going to strip the cylinder and hop yet (later tonight). This is just a quick look at the cylinder, hop and barrel and the externals of the gearbox.   The Cylinder is blue anodised and well

It always amazes me the way people think that because the Systema is $1500 it's actually worth $1500. Do you really think it costs Systema more than a couple of hundred dollars to make? Do you think

ok on with the rest of part 2.   I had a look at the gearbox and electrics today. Some good news and some bad news but to keep you in suspense I'll put the bad news nearer the bottom. No sneak peeki

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Yeah the ashu alone is an interesting chamber.

 

I have to point out the fact that TW not only differs in the way it operates but it has different dimensions on the receiver and the pistol grip (these have real size whilst marui clones are all wider on the lower and on the pistol grip). For example when they designed the ptw motor they designed it to fit inside the real sized pistol grip, this is the reason why the TWs has a very different motor.

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Lol...I thought by now the differences between a PTW and a standard AEG were well known.

 

I will say this, my DTW feels somehow nicer to hold then my G&G Top Tech's.....almost as nice as my GBBr.

 

This seems like a worthy TW

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Uprated WE Katana, TM recoil, ASAR, the G&G 'thing'.....these are certainly a new breed of airsoft system, but they're not TW, due mostly to the inaccuracies of their dimensions and weight. Whilst these things are largely redundant to pure airsoft usage, if a product was designed to be used as a training product for law and military they would have significant bearing on the products effectiveness. IMHO, this is what denotes a training weapon.

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Back on topic, got a DTW and a pile of parts from various brands.

 

DTW motors are the adjustable type if you secure the proper bolt and ball bearing size.

 

If I read the data sheet for the FETs in them correct they have a lower VgsOn than the regular SystemA which should make them more resistant to under voltage batteries.

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Still waiting for the real sword guns to be put into production and end all the tw which am bestest gun threads ..

Trouble with training weopons is the fact that they are built to train on and pump out bbs on a platform designed not to be accurate out of the box . So more money has to be sunk into them to make them accurate , reliable and truly skirmishable at the levels everyone expects if sinking a large cash sum into them . Maybe 5 years ago they were cutting edge , but with the newer aegs / qc improvements and Airsoft technology becoming cheaper and more mass produced by many manufacturers the top end tw makers need to get things spot on if they want to justify the high prices they ask for their products .

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Still waiting for the real sword guns to be put into production and end all the tw which am bestest gun threads ..

Trouble with training weopons is the fact that they are built to train on and pump out bbs on a platform designed not to be accurate out of the box . So more money has to be sunk into them to make them accurate , reliable and truly skirmishable at the levels everyone expects if sinking a large cash sum into them . Maybe 5 years ago they were cutting edge , but with the newer aegs / qc improvements and Airsoft technology becoming cheaper and more mass produced by many manufacturers the top end tw makers need to get things spot on if they want to justify the high prices they ask for their products .

Yeah, but in terms of high expectations, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul, you're expecting Real Sword to do what everyone else has failed to do, put out a perfect product.

 

Also, this fabled increase in airsoft quality, technology and cheapness? Really? Not saying you're necessarily wrong, but that point of view isn't an absolute, from my perspective airsoft tech, cost and quality has barely moved on. MOSFETs are the big thing now, but the ones I've tried have been *suitcase*. Split gearboxes aren't new, and neither is spring tension release....the biggest and most exciting innovation in airsoft for me are gbbr's but they're hardly bullet proof in terms of quality, cost and performance due to cool down effects and variation in gas utility.

 

I'm no PTW fan boy, but I can sympathise with people thinking they're the pinnacle of the airsoft product lineup. Would I afford a PTW? tough one, at the price I'd need to spend I'd be very precious about it, to the point of not really wanting to skirmish with it. That's where products like the DTW and (maybe) CTW come into play. Price point is perfect and I doubt these other options (RS, ASAR, G&G, TM RECOIL, etc) will even come close to offering such product potential at the same competitive price.

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If you are having trouble with MOSFETs you are doing something vastly wrong, bullet proof IRL3034 based units are available for as little as 18 bucks for a basic switching FET.

No doubt about that! My point was I tried some, namely the Burst Wizard, and Airfet to name a few, and they had an adverse effect on the performance of the gun! That there's a specific MOSFET which works well doesn't surprise me, just it's frustrating to have to search so hard to find something that, in reality, should be very simple to produce and understand. This goes back to the point of a general increase in airsoft tech, quality and cost. IMHO, it's as patchy and risk laden as it ever was. Buying a product which is a lemon is more the norm than an exception. In a hobby with those credentials I certainly think there's still place for the good old TW.

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As a UK airsofter, I wholeheartedly recommend the Fireworks Beta. MOSFET. I have 2, and I think theyre great MOSFETS. Everything you need to install them is in the pack, great instructions to go with them. and the performance difference IS noticeable.

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Gun quality and what a basic entry level gun can obtain have changed a lot . G&g combat machines at 100 / 160 pounds can outlast / outrange guns at double the money .

Real sword have been using real gun externals and dimensions for a while now .

To me the rs dragunov is the only gun that is worth its price tag , externally perfect , internally strong and shoots like nothing else out of the box . Lipo battery's and mosfets are giving trigger response that in some cases betters the systema guns

Also proper warrantys on Airsoft guns are becoming mor available at some retailers , up to 2 years at the best ones .

To say Airsoft hasn't moved on a bit is totally wrong .

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Gun quality and what a basic entry level gun can obtain have changed a lot . G&g combat machines at 100 / 160 pounds can outlast / outrange guns at double the money .

Real sword have been using real gun externals and dimensions for a while now .

To me the rs dragunov is the only gun that is worth its price tag , externally perfect , internally strong and shoots like nothing else out of the box . Lipo battery's and mosfets are giving trigger response that in some cases betters the systema guns

Also proper warrantys on Airsoft guns are becoming mor available at some retailers , up to 2 years at the best ones .

To say Airsoft hasn't moved on a bit is totally wrong .

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I spent this evening fitting an element wire harness, M80 spring and shim set to my WE AEG (non kitana) gearbox, why? because it was sold to me shooting 410fps. No problem, that's a service issue rather than a gun issue. Gearbox was still a pig to work on, same as 6 years ago. Again, no problem, that's just me not being as adept at AEG gearboxes as some other people. Completed rebuild, reassembled gun, only to find element wire harness and trigger switch don't work. Sure I was hacked off, but you know what, I wasn't that surprised, this is the day in the life of an airsofter. After market parts produced by spastic monkey's in China, service from shops that care more about the weight of a pound coin then actual customer service, and gearboxes that make Swiss clocks seem like five piece jigsaw sets....yep, airsoft has come on in leaps and bounds.

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5 years ago I would have laughed in people's faces if they told me g&g made or were going to make decent. , reliable guns . Nowadays its the complete opposite . I sing there praises . Entry level cm guns are reliable shoot accurately at 40 Mtrs plus out of the box and out last their 1 year warrantys . Top techs have 6.03 barrels as standard , good wiring and decent internals . And two year warrantys which are totally backed up by pas the uk main agent .

I do agree that some manufacturers are still churning out the same rubbish internals / externals in there overpriced guns ( ares , magpul , src . But if you look for quality you can find it at a reasonable price nowadays . Shops like pas are changing the way Airsoft retailers sell and warrant their guns . If others don't step up and give good aftercare and service they will start to lose business . As with all Hobbys there are good and bad places to buy your equipment ..

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Saw this... Ares M4-E

http://www.airsoft-squared.com//post/3391/ares-m4-e-carbine-now-available

 

Quote:

According to JAG Precision they are now distributing the new ARES M4-E Carbine and they should be available at your local retailer soon depending on where you live or which country you live of course.
The ARES M4A1-E is the first production M4 that includes a fully programmable computerized electric trigger system withinthe gun itself. This new feature gives you the ability to customize the trigger system beforehand. Below there is a list of four different programmable firing settings you can set.
With the ARES M4e, you can improve ammunition consumption by half, making it last twice as long. Less reload, less hassle. The lipo cutoff feature makes it a safer way to not destroy your battery by cutting off the power before it runs out. The trigger is easily accessible and will react with a quick tap. Quick and easy access when in action. This new feature provides less hassle than any other gun. Everything is programmed beforehand so extra work is not needed.
Unlike most guns, the ARES M4A1-E has a built in MOSFET which makes it possible to control the Gearbox. The MOSFET addition acts like a helper to control the ammunition that comes out. This makes it better by not draining your battery while creating a precise firing setting.

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On topic: had the DTW out in the morning for some serious range testing, etc. OMG, it's early days but I love this gun. Let me just say, it's stock, no mods, no shiming, no Systema parts.....this is straight out of the G&D factory baby! To make matters worse, I was using and 8.4v NiMH unit......

 

Range was awesome, getting around 3 - 4inch groupings at around 40m (approx 130yds) on single shot with zero'd scope. Full auto was kack due to battery, but I will only use my rifles on single to practice trigger discipline for my gbbr's.

 

Trigger response was phenomenal, seriously!! People dis TW and talk about how AEG's can compare or be better, well fair enough. I've owned loads of AEG's, nothing, NOTHING, out of the box at this price range shoots like this. Sure, I imagine you can probably fettle an AEG to compete, but I know from bitter experience that finding the right parts, getting them to perform together, and of course cost means that option just doesn't stack up when talking about the DTW. PTW maybe, but not this gun.

 

Looking forward, even though this gun is ready to go out of the box, I do think it would benefit from a tune up. Maybe some gearbox shims, but at the moment that's the only thing I can think of. The hop was great in my opinion, and the overall feel of the gun is certainly up there with it's counter parts in this price range.

 

I'm certainly going to get me some more variants of this platform. An unexpected side effect of DTW ownership is that I'm also thinking more seriously about PTW ownership. Let's ignore the CTW, at least for now. Going back to my standard AEG's was a real come down, a bit like how I feel when picking up an AEG after handling / using my gas guns.

 

Can't wait to see how products like the ASAR will be in comparison to this, both in terms of performance and cost. Right now though I can't recommend this platform enough.

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Could you film the trigger response and full auto ROF on a 11,1v ? Reading your experience yours may be better than mine and may have an improved motor.

 

you mean 130 ft, not 130 yrds, arent you ? 130 yards is more than 100 meters. :))

 

Accuracy wise I did not have problems (in fact the gun performed better than I expected), however on mine fps dropped a lot (adding more hop decreases the fps on most guns, but on mine the fps drop was more than ~100 in this case) when the hop is dialed to .25s and 28s and the number of chopped bbs increased. Then I decided to change the roller packing to a larger diameter which solved the problem.

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Could you film the trigger response and full auto ROF on a 11,1v ? Reading your experience yours may be better than mine and may have an improved motor.

 

you mean 130 ft, not 130 yrds, arent you ? 130 yards is more than 100 meters. :))

 

Accuracy wise I did not have problems (in fact the gun performed better than I expected), however on mine fps dropped a lot (adding more hop decreases the fps on most guns, but on mine the fps drop was more than ~100 in this case) when the hop is dialed to .25s and 28s and the number of chopped bbs increased. Then I decided to change the roller packing to a larger diameter which solved the problem.

Sweet baby Jesus, yes, I mean't feet not yards :) typing while excited, never a good thing.

 

I need to go out and buy lipos and a charger, but as soon as I do I'll do a video.

 

Regarding bb's being chopped, I didn't have any of that, but then only did around 15 mags (had to sort some gas guns today as well :) )

 

I didn't check fps, but mine came with the blue cylinder so fps would be to hot to play at my sites, and 100 fps drop would put me in a reasonable gaming level :)

 

I'll try to get these aspects on film when my lipos turn up.

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Ebaybanned have the M90 cylinder for sale £49 posted. However all you need is a M95 spring and a pair of long nose pilars. Unscrew the spring guide from the cylinder, swap spring and rescrew the spring guide back into place. Be very careful with the DTW cylinder threads, mine proved to be weak so the first few tracks of the thread tend to get destroyed after a couple of uses.

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