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PTW clones( DTW A&K etc)


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I'm not going to strip the cylinder and hop yet (later tonight). This is just a quick look at the cylinder, hop and barrel and the externals of the gearbox.   The Cylinder is blue anodised and well

It always amazes me the way people think that because the Systema is $1500 it's actually worth $1500. Do you really think it costs Systema more than a couple of hundred dollars to make? Do you think

ok on with the rest of part 2.   I had a look at the gearbox and electrics today. Some good news and some bad news but to keep you in suspense I'll put the bad news nearer the bottom. No sneak peeki

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A&K made only 20 pieces for Europe, so they did sell fast.

 

I have 1 too, and the build quality is indeed very good.

 

1 big negative point on mine was the mosfet. After 3 mags, it shorted and the motor kept running without pulling the trigger.

So now I have a Systema ECU and mosfet.

 

The mosfet is the most weak part of the A&K.  It has 5 mosfets, instead of 2 (like Systema, CTW,DTW), and has no heatsink for cooling!!! (that's what caused mine to fail)

 

Also, the selector switch board isn't compatible with Systema electronics. The wiring is different. (but if you reroute the wires, it works.)

 

 

In my opinion, with the 500fps cylinder, it shoots way to slow. It would have been much better if they used a M110 cylinder, and speed gears, instead of torque gears.

 

 

Also, the stocktube is too small for the hole in the body.  If you tighten up the locking-ring with a wrench, I can pull the stocktube out of the body, if I want to tighten with a little extra force.
 

A little video I made about some parts:

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The 5 MOSFET board is the 07 design, yup they used 5 very weak MOSFETs which tend to die from back fed voltage from the motor (PTW motors make a huge amount of AC line current when they spin down 4-5V vs 250mV from an EG1000) but the added in TVS on the A&K should have helped stop that, but FETs don't really fully like load sharing so it could be one FET soaks all the heat and fails open as FETs tend to....

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Again it's down to choices and how much you want to spend on your gun. If you want nice externals but either have spare internals or don't mind upgrading the electronics then the A&K seems a good buy. If you are not too fussed with externals (or have access to enough bits to replace the ###### parts) and don't mind tinkering with the hop unit then get the D&G and save a little more cash in the process.

 

Is it worth renaming this thread to something more useful now we are discussing other clones as much as the DTW?

Edited by LordElpus
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Strongly agree, I think it is better to collect all information from the clones in the same topic.

 

Back to the a&k, the externals look and feel great, and IMHO it is easier to change some of the internals rather than changing receivers, barrels stock tubes and others.

 

One more thing, the a&k gearbox and ecu seem to be better for me. Stops in the right place all the time, there is no horrible sideway play on the 'sector' wheel like on my dtw.

 

Also we are going to check the possibility of protecting the mosfet from burning on the A&K with a friend who is great at electronics.

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...

 

 

 

Thank you for the vid, at least I see the replacement of the individual mosfet is easy. :D

 

Could you upload a close-up photo of the mostfet board where the text on the mosfets are visible ? Maybe we can find a more affordable solution instead of replacing the ecu-selector-mosfet board trio. May need some soldering skills tough.

 

Furthermore if you may sell the faulty ecu and mosfet I would be interested in buying it (to find out how to repair it). :)

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Thnx for the vid. If you could provide some more insight into the systema ecu mod, that would be great. 

Phoned Taiwangun today, if something is not on the website, it's not in stock, so all A&K TW seems to be sold out atm (the guy was not 100% sure). The next batch is to be delivered within month and half, more less.

And BTW, anyone found A&K TW in any other shop?

Edited by Nath
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Thank you for the vid, at least I see the replacement of the individual mosfet is easy. :D

 

Could you upload a close-up photo of the mostfet board where the text on the mosfets are visible ? Maybe we can find a more affordable solution instead of replacing the ecu-selector-mosfet board trio. May need some soldering skills tough.

 

Furthermore if you may sell the faulty ecu and mosfet I would be interested in buying it (to find out how to repair it). :)

 

mosfet.JPG

 

The other electronic parts on the mosfet-board are covered in some white stuff. (its hard, so it's not thermal paste or something)

 

Thnx for the vid. If you could provide some more insight into the systema ecu mod, that would be great. 

Phoned Taiwangun today, if something is not on the website, it's not in stock, so all A&K TW seems to be sold out atm (the guy was not 100% sure). The next batch is to be delivered within month and half, more less.

And BTW, anyone found A&K TW in any other shop?

 

Well, I replaced the ECU and mosfet. The only A&K electronics that I still use is the selector-switch-board.

 

If you just hook everything up (A&K switch-board and systema ecu and mosfet), you only have full-auto. Semi does nothing.

 

So if you take a look at the connector from the selectorswitch-board, you have to switch the 2 outer wires. (so only the middle wire stays in place)

Then it works as it should be.

 

 

I didn't test the A&K ECU with the Systema Mosfet, because I saw a review from a guy with a DTW who did that, and he ended up with a burned mosfet.

I'm not sure if the A&K and Systema ECU are 100% compatible, but I don't want to check that, and end up with another broken mosfet :P

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Relevant MOSFET sheets:

 

A&K: http://www.ruichips.com/pic/RU40280R.pdf

PTW: http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf4905.pdf and http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irl1404.pdf

DTW: http://www.silikron.com/upload01//SSF4004%20V1.1.pdf and http://www.ic-on-line.cn/view_online.php?id=1133691&file=0074\2sj657_652068.pdf

 

AFAIK the 40-280s need a big massive heatsink and even then are worse at handling heat, which may be why they die an early death, but I am not an expert on MOSFETs, I just dabble.

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Well I can sleep easy tonight with my decision to go down the TW route rather than the 'upgraded' AEG route. Have just read the feedback on the hotly awaited and debated ASCU gen 3, and apparently it sucks. Which doesn't bode well for the eagerly awaited ASAR.

 

Any feedback on when the A&K will be released in volume or the various stores like Taiwangun will get it back in stock?

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Personally I think the g&g g box gun will be the best of the bunch as their qc is brilliant at the moment . And they seem to have ticked every box for a tw type gun with its innovative features . Quick spring change / cylinder . Quick motor change . Electronic monitoring of the gearbox , charge handle , bolt are linked in to this as well . Empty mag / cock weopon before it can fire . Empty mag stop as well , Fine tuning for fps and trigger . The list keeps getting ] better and better .

Edited by Baddbaz
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I see a couple of drawbacks on the g&g design. First and foremost it has at least two sets of detachable copper electrical contacts which can loosen up over time and/or corrode over time. I imagine lots of contact problems, burning contact surfaces, etc, a real electrical nightmare especially when used with higher rated springs which require more voltage and current.

 

On the disassembly video they used a cylinder set similar to ICS design, made of zinc alloy, pot metal. Why ? To heavy, too big parts, bad cold weather tolerance, prone to break, etc.

 

the easy disassembly process shows a lot of new (and therefore uncompatible with any existing system) methods on how the parts are held together. Over time and I suspect over a short time these links are going to loosen up (depending of the usage and how often you disassemble your gun) and the whole gun is about to fall apart by itself, or at least wobble and rattle.

 

For me the g&g design is seems to be a real nightmare on the electrical and mechanical side.

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The big plus is that g&g tend to give fully backed up after sales support and 2 year warrantys on their top end stuff and we also have pas their main agent in the uk for spares / parts backup

The big plus is that standard quick release spring guns hit a wall when you go for high power springs with the quick change motor you can overcome this by changing motors depending on the spring strength . On a standard gun you will have to keep stripping it down to change the motor . Also with everything being modular if a part fails its just a quick unit change rather than a gearbox strip down to change the broken bit ..

Edited by Baddbaz
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OK, I don't want to pollute my favourite thread with more derailment, but thinking about the G&G, in my mind it's a different beast to the array of TW out there, just as standard AEG's are in general. Not saying it's bad, until someone buys and reviews it, who can say whether it will be a dog electrically or mechanically.

 

It won't have the same (supposed) accurate dimensions of a TW. It's electronics aren't doing the same thing a TW does. Saying that, it has a working charging handle.

 

As far as I can see though, if you want a TW the options are still the same, if you want the next level of AEG's then maybe the G&G will fit the bill. I've pulled the trigger of a TW, there ain't no going back :)

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A few notes on the G&D DTW, if you are planning to switch to a SystemA ECU and MOSFET you will need to rewire the selector board, the top and bottom wires must be flipped to get it to function 100%, but the traces on the board are VERY weak do not solder direct on the board or you will risk melting the traces right out, instead either use a small pick and swap the pins at the connector or swap and resolder the wires near the connector, be careful the insulation is very low temp and chars fairly easy.

 

EDIT: fix iPhone induced errors.

Edited by Megalomaniac
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