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Well, I don't know about you but I've been waiting since TM said they were making one of these to get one. Seems I wasn't the only one sick of waiting so thank you WE tech for stepping into the breach.

 

Like many here I thought WE pistols were the wrong side of pap but since their PX4 and then the more recent XDM and XDM compact I was getting this the second I could.

 

I'm not gonna bother with real gun history or how the box is because it's the pistol that counts.

D3EAF9EA-E19F-4E05-A159-CBE227CFF0F7-6575-000006EAFA490096.jpg

The gun comes with one mag, three black back straps in small, medium and large and the three in pink too in the same sizes. I have heard that they have unique serial numbers on the little metal plate on the right hand side but I can't be sure. Once I get my tan one I'll confirm it or otherwise.

8C939863-9142-4FB3-82BA-494C32AAD3E7-6652-000006F283E1CAA8.jpg loving the fishscale serrations too. Very cool!

 

The gun

Wow! It has a great finish to it especially the slide.almost like its phosphate. The slide racks nicely and is very satisfying to do so. The recoil spring seems quite firm but in a good way and the tolerances between frame and slide are pretty good with very little movement.

The trigger is hinged to act as the safety as there is no external safety on this pistol. It doesn't, however, feel strange and has a nice pull to it too. The reset seems quick and the action is really smooth I thought.

 

The slide locks back nicely and doesn't engage on the external part of the slide lock as per the real gun. Contrary to some YouTube vids it certainly seems like the slide has full travel too.

AEB52C73-52A5-4AA2-96B0-7D2998A5E875-6652-000006F27433596D.jpg

89F63279-FA89-4459-8A29-04521BBC7274-6652-000006F27F586B46.jpg

As you can see it also has an ambi slide release too.

I weighed the gun and with the mag it's 705g without 474g so this isn't no heavyweight but it feels supremely comfortable in the hand and makes up for weight in sheer point ability.

 

The hop is under the barrel so you need to take the slide off to adjust it. I haven't touched it yet but from initial tests on the range at JD Airsoft it seems pretty well set for .25g BB's anyway.

A36EC321-42F3-4CEE-8DB9-E9BB02878863-6652-000006F2AA3F6934.jpg

The slide is easy to remove anyway in the usual way that anyone with a GBB pistol will be familiar with.

 

I didn't chrono it as we were having too much fun but the shooting experience is fantastic. Quick firm blowback with a cracking muzzle report makes this a proper beauty. If anyone thought they could still say they knew WE pistols were rubbish without trying this out first needs ignoring. This is one of the best pistols I've owned/shot/ drooled over. I may get the slide laser etched to give it the trades it so rightly deserves but that hasn't put me off it yet! So far 9.5/10 and that's only cause I never give anything 10/10!

 

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The serial number plates are unique for sure. The slide travel is about 2mm short, as the rounded cutout in the slide is suposed to sit directly above the disassembly lever when locked back, but it's close enough.

 

Good first impressions, can't wait to get mine !

 

What does the frame feel and sound like, and what about the grips and backstraps, are they rubbery or polymerish or what ?

Edited by NonEx

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The slide locks back nicely and doesn't engage on the external part of the slide lock as per the real gun. Contrary to some YouTube vids it certainly seems like the slide has full travel too.

AEB52C73-52A5-4AA2-96B0-7D2998A5E875-6652-000006F27433596D.jpg

 

 

With the real-steel M&P, when the slide is locked back, the angle of the front of the trigger guard, the bevel on the lower frame, and the bevel on the upper slide all form one continuous diagonal line.

 

IACP_SWMP_7.JPG

 

Unfortunately, and as was previously feared, it looks as if the WE doesn't line up in this way.

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The frame is a good polymer with a good stippled pattern and the back straps are rubberised. All in all it feels great in the hand.

 

Re the slide travel, I know it is a problem for some people but I am certainly not gonna loose any sleep over it. The travel might be a little short but it isn't the problem people were making it out to be however. IMHO anyway.

 

Now I just need some good images of the trades for the laser engraver if anyone can help out please :D

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I never noticed that about the angles lining up, incredibly difficult to find pics of an M&P with the slide locked back for some reason. But a part of the illusions seems to be that the WE frame bevel is not angled like the RS frame is, but rather straight, so the differenses in slide lock travel appears greater than it actually is.

 

Anyhow, I think it's good enough.

 

I am also hunting for an engraver to fix mine when I get them :D

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If you notice the fishscales on both line up with where the back strap angles downwards so it's only at the front where the lines are out. Maybe it's vagaries of Airsoft model production versus real gun production. IDK

 

One thing I didn't mention was the mold line down the frame is quite prominent. Again, this hasn't bothered me and I can't say I notice it everytime I pick the pistol up but it is there and you can see it so I should include it in this review.

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The design flaw by WE was pointed out as far back as post #20 by renegadecow in http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/205810-acm-mp-dont-tell-me-we-have-beaten-tm-to-it/page__hl__m

 

Here's a r.s. M&P22, and once again you can see how well-aligned the front of the trigger guard is to the bevel on the slide.

 

MP-22_1.jpg

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You should check the hammer mech.

 

Apparently there was a little design flaw with the first gen M&Ps. The yellow piece in this picture:

mp1b.jpg

was actually rounded:

p1000741n.jpg

Thus causing 3-round bursts sometimes. WE promised to replace every gun with this problem for free in taiwan, and supposedly no gun comes with that problem anymore.

In case it has this problem, WE posted the solution, filing the piece so it's flat:

p1000742.JPG

Edited by kenxin

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Alright! Sheesh I concede mimesis; it's fundamentally flawed and people should avert their eye when one is in their presence. ;) lol

 

As te tinterweb is renowned for the loss of humour in posts. The above comment ^^^^ was made heavily in jest ;)

 

Honestly, the angle is off on the WE: for 99% of us that's fine. It isn't 100% accurate as it has no trades on it anyway and I'm sure most folks especially those of us with no access to the real thing who want one will let that go. As I've said. It shoots beautifully, goes in to the aim easily and feels right in the hand.

Not having a go but as you say it's been pointed out and done to death. This review was about how it looks an shoots for airsofters. :)

Kenix, I fired maybe a dozen mags through it yesterday with no three rnd bursts. Do you know I it was a problem that would manifest itself from new or would develop? I'd be really keen to find out so I know before I rip it apart. Thanks. :D

 

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Don't do anything unless you have troubles with it, it will be in the form of bursts or full auto, if that happens take alook at the above for referense. There were two reporst of it occuring on arms-cool, that I saw in the thread.

 

As for the slide lock/angle, I think what is most noticable in that pic in the original thread (post #20, rengadecow) is the fact that the chamber is visible still and that the rear serrations don't line up with the rear of the frame, I doubt it was the angle of the frame and slide bevel that is referensed.

 

On the RS, the front of the slide lines up pretty much with the back end of the last rails locking spacing, on the WE it is, again, about 2 mm off in front of it. While the actual angles of the slide and frame bevel are off by more than that, so I guess either the slide angle or the frame angle is miss-aligned. As is the slide cutout for the disassembly lever, the slide lock notch, the pins, etc etc...

 

Oh the horror !

 

Also posting pics of a .22 M&P is invalid as we do not know if is designed the same way. However the first pic posted shows some differense, yes.

 

As noted by phil the rear serrations now line up with the slide give or take 2-3 millimeters. It's not as bad as it was from the start, so .... yeh, enough about that :)

Edited by NonEx

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Not having a go but as you say it's been pointed out and done to death.

 

+1

 

Don't do anything unless you have troubles with it,

 

What he said ^^

 

Lesson learned on the WE G series upgrades I was planning on doing. Either came out half *albatross* ed needing some major work (which does not really bother me but may be the end for a noob or fodder for a peanut gallery dwelling WE Tech hater) or simply does not work without actual TM parts. So if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :D

 

EDIT: BTW @ Philbucknall, stellar job posting this review. Its getting harder for me NOT to pull the trigger on this one even w/o the proper trademarks.

Edited by rvlyssup

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Good news bad news. Found a guy who can laser engrave the slide trades, although he can't adjust the depth of the engraving on his machine and it would most likely expose the bare aluminum, requiring re-finishing. Not a big deal as a Cerakote would be in order anyways for this beauty.

 

However, as for the frame, you would have to mill out the existing WE molded logo, create an aluminum plate emblem and color it and glue it in place. I asked if it would be possible to engrave over the existing emblem but he said it would be hard and getting the positioning of the tool right in the center of the grip logo place would be difficult. So making an emblem badge would be the way to go.

As for milling out the existing logo, well that's a problem of it's own I guess.

 

 

Oh yeah, he also told me he was busy until after new years due to xmas gift orders etc. Guess that goes for alot of engravers this time of year. Just FYI.

 

So really, would you want a properly traded slide with the WE logo on the frame still ? I don't... all or nothing.

Also there are trades on the magazines back and bottom of the magazine base plate... :o $$$ expensive engravings :P

 

Not having much luck finding a plethora of engraving shops to send the question to. So far two only... :|

 

Here's hoping for Guarder or HK frame and slide sets...

 

I am wondering though since Guarder haven't released a PX4 nor XDM frame so... :(

No slides either for those two from Guarder if I recall correctly?

 

Maybe it's time to contact this Papago guy after all...

Edited by NonEx

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I think you might be waiting a long time for that.

 

Only models that are available as HK3P with full trades is Glock 17, Glock 18C and the Sig Sauer P226.

 

It's not like HK3P have made perfectly traded models of all WE guns to date, far from it. Seems to be more of an exception than a rule.

 

Also, I came to thinking. Since the whole PX4 WE take over of dist. from HK and then the XDM supposedly looking and feeling so good it must have been HK, what if WE shut down HK, took over their production line and cut out the trades to stay out of trouble. I mean think about it. HK models would take away from sales from WE, everyone wants trades, but WE doesn't do trades due to legal issues. So yah... I don't know. I sure hope it does come out but I am not sure it will... :(

 

EDIT:

OK just did a quick look up, AirsoftGlobal list the dates products are added to their web;

 

WE G17 GEN3 : Tuesday 25 October, 2011.

HK Glock 17 GEN3 : Saturday 28 January, 2012.

Approx 3 months.

 

WE G18C GEN3 : Tuesday 06 March, 2012.

HK Glock 18C GEN3 : Thursday 19 April, 2012.

Approx 1½ months.

 

WE F226 Navy : Tuesday 13 March, 2012.

HK Sig Sauer P226 MK24: Saturday 07 July, 2012.

Approx 4 months.

 

 

So the G18 being the exception, since if they had done the G17 already the G18 would be easier, it seems 3 months is the time frame we are looking at. But then again, the PX4, XDM and other models (Glock series, other 226 models etc.) have been out for more than that and no sign of HK full trade models...

Edited by NonEx

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Yes but the HK PX4 does not have real trades now does it. And as I said WE then took over dist. of the HK PX4 under their own name. Thus me wondering if WE took over and shut out HK from the market to protect themselves from loss of sales against them.

 

And again, the PX4 situation was an isolated event which has not happened since. And if you are using that as a referense to the M&P then the HK M&P with full trades should be out already, before the WE... I can't see it anywhere, can you ?

Edited by NonEx

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Yeah I also got info from my retailer that the WE XDM is pulled to remove the trades as they got into problems for it...

 

I also got an e-mail from James at WE saying there will not be any WE models with real trademarks... I guess with the PX4 and XDM they thought they could get away with similar markings, but doesn't seem like it. Maybe blank guns is the future, or made up trades. I would rather have blanks so you at least have an option to engrave yourself.

 

I wonder if this stuff is going to kick back on the third party parts manufacturers as well, no frames, slides etc. with markings ? :(

Edited by NonEx

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Doubt it. Post pics plz.

 

Or PM me the pics because we are way off topic in here already.

Edited by NonEx

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I posted this over in the (rather lengthy) M&P thread in News. NonEx suggested I post this here too, so here goes...

 

So here's some observations I've made and some answers to some people's questions.

 

MAG RELEASE - Is NOT convertible to left handed. It might be possible to modify it to do so, but I'm not going to attempt it as I'm right handed.

MAGAZINE - Real mag floor plates WILL NOT fit the WE mags

-Holds 24 rounds

-Holds plenty of gas, conservative shooters should be able to easily get 3 loads (or more) of BBs from a single charge of Propane/Green Gas. (I got 2 1/2 rapid firing and with little to no rest period between mags)

FRAME - The back straps are 95-98% compatible with the real gun. The WE grips fit on real gun with a slight gap at the bottom; real grips do not fit the WE unless modified.

- The frame rail is pretty much perfect. I pulled my Insight "Procyon" weapon light off of my real M&P and it mounted just as securely as it does on the real gun.

- Mine is a tan/FDE frame. The color is very close to the FDE from the Magpul PTS line.

HOP-UP - Hop-up is TM type (similar to TM Glock)

- My hop-up adjustment wheel is defective. There is a dip in the wheel that causes it to catch on the inside of the hop-up unit making it virtually impossible to adjust the hop-up setting. I replaced the wheel with a modified wheel from a KJW P226. The adjustment wheel from a HFC Glock will work w/o modification.

- Hop-bucking and inner barrel are NOT standard. I compared the inner barrel & the bucking to those of HFC Glock, WE Hi-CAPA, KJW P226, KJW 1911, KJW Hi-CAPA & KJW M9; none of them are like the WE M&P.

- Effectiveness of the hop-up leave a lot to be desired IMO.

 

Update: Since writing this this morning I have replaced the Inner barrel & hop bucking with those from an HFC Glock. My hop-up now functions as it should have from the factory. I can shoot .25 & .30g BBs with the appropriate amount of hop. The HFC bucking is slightly thinker than the OEM WE which causes the hop-up to rub on the outer barrel. I had to sand the sides of the hop-up unit to get a good fit. (I used 600 grit for those interested). If you want to change the bucking you will need to also change the inner barrel, as I stated above, the WE bucking & IB are NOT standard.

 

GENERAL - The blow-back is very crisp and positive. (mine Chrono'ed 300 FPS w/ .20g BBs on Green Gas at approx. 65º F)

- Trigger pull is light and smooth. There is a lot of both pre-travel & over-travel. Trigger re-set is fairly long and "squishy" much like that of the factory reset on the real gun.

- Fit's M&P duty & concealment holsters perfectly

- Real M&P sights should fit. However, the rear would require significant modification to do so. Front should require little to no modification

- Thread adapter from WE Hi-CAPA fits directly on barrel

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From what I can tell from videos on RS M&P the trigger on that sits forward when rested, as does the WE M&P... Just video observations.

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As far as I recall it is only Glocks that do that whole trigger lock back, thing?

 

I haven't seen any other striker fired guns that do it, but then I have only seen the more common ones like the XDM, M&P, Glock, Steyr M9 and Ruger SR9, maybe someone else out there doesn have the same feature.

 

'FireKnife'

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Just to follow up, don't wanna hang azn out to dry here, but he sent me the pics and it is the standard HK PX4 mock trades, ie Px4 Custom instead of Px4 Storm and fake Beretta logos etc. He thought the WE had WE trades. AFAIK WE just took over dist. of the HK PX4 and put their logo on the box, it's not an official WE product, not on any of their websites. Thus me thinking WE now has "embraced" HK into their organization.

 

Just in case anyone wanted to know.

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