Definition of what makes a good airsofter.

[Arghoslent93]

In my experience the best players I've come across have all the qualities people have described above. They're honest, friendly, reliable, have a good sense of humour, are able to keep a calm head in a firefight AND are able to get rounds on target.

 

In my opinion the crux of the game is definitely being able to shoot the other guy, because isn't that what we turn up to do every weekend? Once you take that away then the qualities that make a good airsofter could apply to every other sport, ultimately rendering this discussion a bit moot.

 

Just like being a good footballer requires a decent level of skill in ball control, passing, shooting, etc, the core of being a good airsofter in my opinion means being able to put rounds down where they need to be, thus keeping the opfor's heads down and allowing your side to advance and gain the advantage. Without this ability, you aren't really achieving much.

 

You could then rebut this by saying, 'some people don't play airsoft to win', which is fine for them, let them not win as much as they like, but if I'm paying £30 to spend a day shooting you, you can bet your bottom dollar I'm going to try my best to hit you, because if we don't play sport (any sport, not just airsoft) to win, then what's the point in sport at all? One could subsequently ask this question: why do we have a football Premier League, and a Champions League, and a World Cup, if the teams competing don't want to prove that they're the best of the best?

 

It's the same in airsoft. No one turns up to a game hoping to lose, similarly, they might not turn up hell bent on winning, but you could probably say with some confidence that the team that ends up winning the day doesn't go home gutted because they didn't come second.

[scorch]

In my experience the best players I've come across have all the qualities people have described above. They're honest, friendly, reliable, have a good sense of humour, are able to keep a calm head in a firefight AND are able to get rounds on target.

 

In my opinion the crux of the game is definitely being able to shoot the other guy, because isn't that what we turn up to do every weekend? Once you take that away then the qualities that make a good airsofter could apply to every other sport, ultimately rendering this discussion a bit moot.

 

Just like being a good footballer requires a decent level of skill in ball control, passing, shooting, etc, the core of being a good airsofter in my opinion means being able to put rounds down where they need to be, thus keeping the opfor's heads down and allowing your side to advance and gain the advantage. Without this ability, you aren't really achieving much.

 

You could then rebut this by saying, 'some people don't play airsoft to win', which is fine for them, let them not win as much as they like, but if I'm paying £30 to spend a day shooting you, you can bet your bottom dollar I'm going to try my best to hit you, because if we don't play sport (any sport, not just airsoft) to win, then what's the point in sport at all? One could subsequently ask this question: why do we have a football Premier League, and a Champions League, and a World Cup, if the teams competing don't want to prove that they're the best of the best?

 

It's the same in airsoft. No one turns up to a game hoping to lose, similarly, they might not turn up hell bent on winning, but you could probably say with some confidence that the team that ends up winning the day doesn't go home gutted because they didn't come second.

I was trying to highlight the bit where you said "try my best" but I can't on my phone. I don't give a *suitcase* if I lose, as long as fun was had and people gave it their best.

[heroshark]

Wet nose and a glossy coat.

[renegadecow]

Despite all of us running around with RIFs, being a good shot isn't the be all and end all of the game (discounting attitude). For example, you can function as a scout for your fire team and never have to fire a shot but relay very important information to the rest of your team.

[ShinSeiki]

I find that the most enjoyable people to have around on the field are the ones that can put "the game" as a whole in front of "their game". I'll give you an example, we play at a cqb site(abandoned factory) with a few areas of overgrown vegetation. As you can imagine, there are couple of spots where one guy shooting through a hole in a wall can cover half the total play area. This has caused a few "close calls" injury-wise, and generaly, one guy just brings down the level of play for everyone else in order to get a few cheap kills. Because of that i only play there when it's a private match with people i know i can reason with to make a better game for everyone.

 

It's not rocket science, a little comon sense can go a long way...

[FireKnife]

I was trying to highlight the bit where you said "try my best" but I can't on my phone. I don't give a *suitcase* if I lose, as long as fun was had and people gave it their best.

 

Agreed.

 

In my opinion any person that is happy to join in with the silly moments and plays fairly is fine in my book. If they can't hit anything but they want to help out then get them on cover fire. Every player has their own way of playing and I don't see why I should expect them to be some 'operator' that can hit a man sized target at 20m in 0.5secs flat. I mean given how I play you wouldn't ask me to give cover fire but I would try it for a laugh .

 

'FireKnife'

[thatguy404]

I find that the most enjoyable people to have around on the field are the ones that can put "the game" as a whole in front of "their game". I'll give you an example, we play at a cqb site(abandoned factory) with a few areas of overgrown vegetation. As you can imagine, there are couple of spots where one guy shooting through a hole in a wall can cover half the total play area. This has caused a few "close calls" injury-wise, and generaly, one guy just brings down the level of play for everyone else in order to get a few cheap kills. Because of that i only play there when it's a private match with people i know i can reason with to make a better game for everyone.

 

It's not rocket science, a little comon sense can go a long way...

 

 

This is also a good point!

Very easy for someone with site knowledge to easily trap a team in one area, especially in CQB.

 

[MrGoodcat]

BTW Im not claiming that I am some sort of 'operator', Ive met nice guys who are helpful on the field but useless when it comes to actually engaging the other team. Also met *albartrotheth* who can out move and out shoot 90% of the other players. IMO the second guy is the better airsofter as his skills translate better to a game revolving around shooting each other. Would I go for a pint with him? . No, probably not, but Id pick him to play on my side every day of the week. If you had to pick players on skills alone, would you pick the guy who plays a lot and goes training with other like minded players, or would you pick Jolly Dave who slows everything down, makes a load of noise and cant hit a barn door, but is a good laugh?

Its a given that the people who practice more and try harder will inevitably be better players. Thats how practice works.

I like to win at what Im doing and Im not to keen on losing, but I play fair and if that means losing to a team of better players then so be it.

[Inari]

But that's not necessarily the point of this thread - it's more a philosophical debate on what is good? Define good, and then continue.

 

If you're basing it on skill/ability, then in order of importance it is:

- Site knowledge: If you're agile and are a good shot, but don't know where you're going...that's not conducive to victory. No napalm in the morning for you!

- Agility: You can be the best shot in the world, but unless you move then you'll be out of range for virtually the whole game, and thus akin to the previously mentioned "nice guy standing around with a gun in his hand". Paired with site knowledge means you can get to where you need to be and be a deciding force for your team

- Marksmanship: You can run around as much as you want, though eventually you're going to have to pull the trigger...better to have it on-target.

 

That isn't what I would term as 'good' - if you want to play to win, the best person to have on your team is a non-hit taking ROF junkie cheating the chrono; you'll have better range, he's indestructible, and people will call their hits faster with him. Winning isn't everything, as unless it's a level playing field there is nothing to win. There is no prize, only the satisfaction at the end...and for there to be satisfaction, there has to be honour. So even for those who just want to win, honour is integral. Without it this game does not exist.

 

That goes for every sport/discipline/whatever - without honour, it's all for nothing.

[MrGoodcat]

Ok thats fair enough, but the non hit taking ROF junkie cheating the chrono isnt playing by the rules layed down in the brief.

I was going on the assumption that taking your hits and being legal fps wise are the most basic things involved in the game and that taking your hits and not cheating is a baseline for being good at the game. You can be honest and and have good skills, which imo would make you a better player than the honest ,non cheating guy who cant shoot. On the other hand you can have someone who is an awesome shot and knows the site and every other thing that makes a good player, but if he cheats the chrono,or doesnt take his hits ,he's not playing the same game as everyone else. Every sport/hobby has people who are better at it than most , thats just the way it goes.

Being honest and a nice person are more rules to be good at life, my point is being good at life doesnt mean you are good at airsoft

 

My definition of good would be (taking into account that hit taking and legal fps are a given) Someone who can shoot, on target, quickly.

Someone who can take in the info about the site and come up with ways to get an advantage from the terrain.

Someone who can move at a decent clip, quietly

Someone who is willing to get stuck in and help the rest of their 'team' to get the objectives laid down in the game brief.

Someone willing to do things a bit differently than they usually do things, to get it done.

Someone who cares wether they win or lose (not so much that they start breaking rules to do so)

 

Put 2 teams up against each other on a neutral field. 1 team being a hodge podge of local players from a specific site that play once a month and go more for the social aspect

Team 2 being a group of guys who play together as a team as often as possible , do training together and care about doing well. (both teams taking all hits etc) Who do you think would win?

Team 1 could be the nicest guys on earth but that doesnt mean they are better at airsoft than team 2

 

Its like picking football teams on the playing field, you go for the best players first and theres always someone, (usually the same guy more than once) left at the end because everyone knows they are ######. He could be everyones best mate, but on the field he's ###### so not as good in that situation as the bloke who plays for a proper team and puts a lot of effort into his game.

 The thing I find about airsofters is they arevery reluctant to say another player is better than them, Im not the best player in the world ,and I know that if I turn up to and average skirmish I'll be better than the average but there will always be someone better AT THE GAME,he might be a prat but hes still better

[FireKnife]

I think that you might have missed the point of this thread a bit.

 

We are discussing good as in 'decent, honest chap'.

 

I see where you are coming from but you are defining good as a skill level (something rather hard to specify as one mans 'poor' is another mans 'excellent') and that is not really the point of the thread.

 

Now if this was 'what skills and strengths should a winning player have' (not assuming 'winning' means 'win at all costs') then you would be on the money.

 

To me good in tis context is able to play honestly, enjoy the game and not infringe on other players fun. Beyond that I don't mind if they are sweeping players down in the hundreds or running around, failing to get into the same building time and time again, so long as they have fun and help others have fun that is really all that would matter to me.

 

'FireKnife'

[Inari]

I understand where you're coming from, and in your hypothetical situation above I would agree that team 2 would likely win.

 

But, win what? With airsoft specifically, do any of you find the outcome of the game matters? Personally I don't. In the 24 hour MilSim's etc, the results are not posted for some time, so all you have is the experience...the outcome does not change the experience, only your perception of it. Personally I'm a journey over destination type of person, so as long as the experience is fun/interesting, I'm happy.

 

Hence why I see being a good airsofter as more about the mindset. I don't get out to play often, so when I do I prefer to be with likeminded people as I find that when the more play-to-win crowd are on the losing end, the game can take a nasty turn. When people don't care about the outcome, spirits stay high and frustration is quite low. That to me is more conducive to a good day's gaming.

 

For you, the definition of good is about individual ability as opposed to the personality/mentality. Under that definition, your criteria is definitely sound - someone with those abilities would definitely be good. For me, using your operational definition of good, I would see it as someone who knows their way around their gun, can move well, understands site rules and tries to bring others along with them. The last one is particularly important - it does two things: 1.) Creates a better atmosphere within the team, as it is more inclusive and 2.) Uses the team more effectively, as the overall skill level improves regardless of who is playing.

[MrGoodcat]

Maybe I have missed the point of the discussion, but the Question posted by the OP is 'what makes a good airsofter' and imo the traits I listed are what makes a good airsofter. Now some of you may not agree with my definition and thats fine, its what forum discussions are about.

i agree with you on the 'win at any cost' mentality as anyone can do that. To me its not about winning at any cost, if I lose the game then its not the end of the world as long as everyone played fair and had a good time. Breaking/bending rules to win is more what makes a bad airsofter. And winning in that way defeats the point of playing

At the end of the day , no, the result doesnt really matter in the long run and generally there is nothing gained by winning apart from bragging rights, but a hard fought victory is always going to be better than a hard fought loss.

I guess I just see that all the traits most of you have listed would make a decent person in any field, but as we are talking about airsoft specifically, being a nice person is not an essential skill in being a good player. Good player says to me being judged on your skills. Good person would be all the traits listed above. Honesty, sense of humour etc. I know guys who would run rings round me on the golf course/ pitch, which makes them better players than me. Would I go for a pint with them, *fruitcage* no!

[Inari]

I absolutely see where you're coming from, and it just depends on what level you're looking at.

 

But every sport is different. In airsoft, because the game is all about honour...it is a little odd. For you to be good at the game, honour has to be to the forefront. Then all of the other stuff, especially the ones you mentioned.

 

Golf you are competing against yourself - once you bring others into it, you've lost. Gymnastics is the same. Team sports are all about cohesion rather than individual prowess, hence why they're typically referenced as specific era teams (Busby Babes etc), and although ability is definitely important...the ability to function as a team is more important.

 

To use the soccer example - if you have 11 players that are all great ball handlers, superb shots, and extremely agile...that's fantastic. But where do they play? You need people to fill roles, and the criteria for those roles is different. Airsoft is quite similar in that regard - someone who is loud at moving is the perfect dedicated distraction, while someone who is agile and useless with a gun can be an effective scout etc. You're only as good as the position you play

[Lone_Bullet]

A good airsoft player is the like-minded player. That is good from anyone's point of view.

Objectively, the good player the fun player. Not good in making the game itself fun, but also good in making every other moment fun.

Fun as in: doesn't argue but rather debates. Plays fair, is useful. And makes his team feel like having a good time, whatever their definition of 'having a good time' is.

 

My 2c.