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This is extremely helpful info.  I will give my contact at HK PTS a call on this.  I think we deserve at least as much.  Not sure if they will have the new on hand to deliver.

 

I, and a lot of other HK airsofters would deeply appreciate it if we can get a side by side photo shot of the old vs new trigger plates.

 

Thanks in advance

There's not much difference between the appearance of the selector plates, save that the early/faulty ones are either too thick, or have been thinned down leaving the bottom surface as unfinished steel. The new ones seem to be cast better, and so have finish all around while still being thinner.

 

A good way to determine between early or new PDR gearboxes is the magazine catch. On the early units it looks like it's been milled or CNC'd, on the later ones it's been cast.

 

Hope this helps!

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*slams head onto desk*   Dear Magpul   Please get a company can produce decent internals for your guns (e.g G&P)   Yours Sincerely Anyone who wants to buy your product.

Why sure.     Oh wait, you meant the mod didn't you?

Everything he's posted has been factual, you're really not in any position to instruct anybody to discontinue providing relevant information.  He's also never made claims that PTS are amazing in every

FYI, mine was serial # 4XX, which leads me to think that the first batch were probably all the same.  I think PTS probably made at least 500 units in the first batch.  I think it's just the inconsistency in QC that varies.  I don't believe the design has changed in any of the PDR's we've seen thus far.

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FYI, mine was serial # 4XX, which leads me to think that the first batch were probably all the same.  I think PTS probably made at least 500 units in the first batch.  I think it's just the inconsistency in QC that varies.  I don't believe the design has changed in any of the PDR's we've seen thus far.

 

Other than the broken receiver tab, did you actually have any issues with your PDR? none of our 02xx-or-higher PDRs have had any of the "common issues". I wouldn't say that PTS have changed the design from batch to batch, but It seems to me like the first hundred-or-so units were made with leftover prototype or pre-production parts which didn't all work without modification. Mine has what look like production parts and worked flawlessly out of the box until I upgraded it, but in my upgrades, the only thing I did with the current issues in mind was grind a little detent into the trigger-rod to remove any possibility of the trigger block slipping.

 

I don't think I've ever seen this much leniency offered to a new gun with so many issues out of the gate.

 

I just don't like the fact that people are making mountains out of a couple of little molehills. The very early models had some issues, yes. The production models have weak motors and could do with a little groove on the trigger bar, yes.

I've seen very popular guns with way more issues that were harder to fix and much more persistent.

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Other than the broken receiver tab, did you actually have any issues with your PDR? none of our 02xx-or-higher PDRs have had any of the "common issues". I wouldn't say that PTS have changed the design from batch to batch, but It seems to me like the first hundred-or-so units were made with leftover prototype or pre-production parts which didn't all work without modification. Mine has what look like production parts and worked flawlessly out of the box until I upgraded it, but in my upgrades, the only thing I did with the current issues in mind was grind a little detent into the trigger-rod to remove any possibility of the trigger block slipping.

 

 

I just don't like the fact that people are making mountains out of a couple of little molehills. The very early models had some issues, yes. The production models have weak motors and could do with a little groove on the trigger bar, yes.

I've seen very popular guns with way more issues that were harder to fix and much more persistent.

 

 

Yes, my trigger mech failed after about 7-800 rounds (on the third hi cap magazine shot) and I had to remount and tighten the trigger mechanism (it basically fell apart).  I would attribute this to poor quality control/assembly since PTS went this way with the design.

 

There is absolutely no evidence that the first hundred or so were made with pre-production/prototype parts.

 

I have stayed very objective in my review of the PDR-C.  I have listed physical flaws I've seen on my PDR-C and praised certain design elements as well as stated a few  "would be nice to haves".  Most of the negativity has come from other people's experiences with the PDR-C as well as perceptive biases based on their own experiences with gearbox designs.  I respect the opinion of all the members who post here.  Everyone has their own view and you should just take them as a grain of salt if you disagree.

Edited by Noveske
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I think the point was more being made at the 'I've never seen a new gun get so much leniency', not the factual posts made by genuine owners.

 

Not been able to get out and skirmish mine yet but it's felt fine from just casually shooting it, haven't noticed any of the trigger issues. The serial number on mine is in the 330s.

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I just don't like the fact that people are making mountains out of a couple of little molehills. The very early models had some issues, yes. The production models have weak motors and could do with a little groove on the trigger bar, yes.

I've seen very popular guns with way more issues that were harder to fix and much more persistent.

Molehills become a touch more prominent on premium-priced, long awaited, massively hyped guns though.

 

I could buy a Real Sword for a touch more than the cost of a PDR, hell my old CA SA58 cost that much and was damn bulletproof. For that price I'm not giving any leniency.

 

If anything, this release is highlighting the gulf in motives between the airsofter, the airsofter who bought the hype and preordered and the retailer whose interest is to sell these guns.

Edited by Ginger Chris
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Molehills become a touch more prominent on premium-priced, long awaited, massively hyped guns though.

 

I could buy a Real Sword for a touch more than the cost of a PDR, hell my old CA SA58 cost that much and was damn bulletproof. For that price I'm not giving any leniency.

 

If anything, this release is highlighting the gulf in motives between the airsofter, the airsofter who bought the hype and preordered and the retailer whose interest is to sell these guns.

 

I agree with your post for the most part, for the price tag I'd want it to be as close to flawless as possible -- but I also think that "highlighting a gulf" is hyperbole! At first, yes I was very disappointed by what I was seeing, but now...

 

What we have now is first hand evidence, not just that early PDRs have issues, but also later units (based on serial numbers) are workable. I think until more people come forward with their experiences, let's not Daily Wail this... I, like many others have been keeping a keen interest in the PDR and it'd be good to get a real-world view and not a sensationalised response.

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No idea if PTS have some kind of different approach to regions or whether it is indeed just differences in batches as it sounds like HK PDRs are not doing all that well (one would assume also the first run off the production line too), and ones purchased from UK retailers are doing ok (assuming later batches again), so maybe there is a difference in the quality checking that goes out internationally than for the local HK market.

 

Would be interesting to see what, if any, issues US owners encounter (bought from US retailers, and not imported), but I know PTS had some distribution issues in the US so it might not be available yet.

 

 

I'd seen articles regarding the Masada that the HK version was different in some some respects to the version the UK market got. Although I do have my doubts about that as the differences that were highlighted between a 'UK spec' Masada and the one I bought from Ehobby didn't exist, but perhaps Ehobby have Asia and rest of world stock depending on who orders.

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The fail launch of the PDR is just one more example of an industry trend where externals get 95% of the development effort and internals the remain 5%.

I bet they spent way more time developing that stupid ambi ejection port thing than they did on the actual trigger mechanism.

Externally, the PDR is super nice.  But internally it is such massive epic fail in both design and production and QC.  Granted, we've seen this kind of product ever since STAR appeared on the market with their nice looking SCARs that were a complete mess internally.

It's all part of a wider shift of airsoft to cosplay over skirimishing.  People are more worried that their guns look good and "operate realistically" than whether something actually comes out of the business end when the trigger is pulled.

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Firstly I don't own this rifle! Why? Because I read the review that the OP posted, and good number of follow up posts basically confirming his findings. Now I see people coming on saying that the OP is over-reacting, the problems can be fixed, and best yet.."I've never had a problem, my guns great". Seriously, WTF?!?! What is the point of a review section if someone bothers to do an in depth review (in this case, well documented) only to have his *albatross* handed to him, talk about ungrateful.

 

But all that aside, clearly there are folks on here that want this gun to sell, either for business reasons or to justify their purchase choice (bad choices love company). As a potential customer all I get from all this is that for every "good" gun, I'm just as likely to get a bad one. At that price I don't want to have to do any fixes, why should I? If I wanna build models I'll pick up a Tamiya model kit and change my hobby. My hobby is airsoft skirmishing, the tools I buy should allow me to take part in my sport, if I'm in the safe zone dremelling out a £300+ rifle more fool me.

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For me it comes down to the price point , 100/199 pounds and I know it is gonna need a few upgrades to keep up with a more upmarket gun .

200 / 300 pounds , I expect a reliable above average , skirmishable weopon out of the box which may have minor niggles ( hop rubber, reshim ,tightbore etc )

300 pounds and above

I want a reliable out of the box skirmishable weopon with a decent warranty and nothing to put right apart from maybe a spring downgrade

400 pounds and above ..

It better work or its gonna get wedged up some retailers brown area !!

Edited by Baddbaz
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Upgrades is one thing, and by ddefinition, is down to user choice. Making a product fit for purpose is a completely different thing, and a shame on any customer who goes wittingly into a purchase with that in mind. Buying a gun as a fixer-upper, that again is different, it's for a laugh, and you wouldn't pay top dollar for it. But out of the factory, charging premium price, and I need to get the tool box out? Gimme a break.

Edited by Inq Eisenhorn
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I don't think anyone disagrees at this price point the PDR is disappointing from what we have seen so far. That said, it isn't unanimous - there are stories from both sides.

 

Why is it people are very quick to soak up any negative press but then are just as quick to dismiss any positive views also? As a prospective buyer, it makes sense to take all views into account - afterall, it's very possible that in the production batch of PDRs there could be a (perhaps and sadly) significant number of 'lemons'. I don't think anyone is actively bashing OP for his post; the reality is it is drawing out counter-posts and creating discussion. Is this not the purpose of a forum? 

 

We've already seen that there are subtle differences between units, there must be something going on in the background - if anything, it's the lack of communications around issues that demonstrates how out of touch manufacturers have become.

 

One more thing, Inq Eisenhorn, loved you in the books - but, relax. :)

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Indeed it would be rather helpful of PTS (and any other company really) to say that they noticed an issue with X, Y or Z and that it was rectified and offer the affected users some kind of solution. Especially as it seems to be HK users bringing up the issues and PTS is a HK company.

 

I think unfortunately PTS seems to be hitting the stage that companies like Classic Army did years ago where the first patch can be hit or miss, and then they get better after that. It's a shame that any company still feels the need to go through that in this day and age but seems to be what's happening.

 

I definitely wasn't a happy pre-orderer when I came to this thread initially with Noveske's and IBMedics comments, but mine has so far not had their issues so I'm happy with my choice.

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I am relaxed :) my money is safe!!

 

I appreciate that there is two sides to this story, but, there really should only be one....the gun should work. I'm not being naive, most new products that hit the market, usually come with glitches, and things the designers never considered. I recently bought a Mad bull Daniel Defence rail, and the designers clearly had never heard of the term "tool access"! So I know the realities of the situation. But Magpul seem to have screwed up in areas that have been solved by other companies years ago. Dodgy gearbox shells on the Masada! Why? Gearbox shells aren't new, so their R&D department must lack some basic web-fu skills. And on PDR, trigger issues? This isn't the first bull-pup rifle to hit the airsoft scene.

 

Probably the answer is simple. Greed. That's right, I said it! GREED, the idea that parts and designs need to be proprietary, thereby locking customers in and restricting the use of after market parts. So, now, with this strategy, you can't just make a simple V2 or V3 gearbox, it has to be something new, well that backfired! And, I'm guessing they wanted to pull the same stunt here. Rather than coming onto the scene and wanting to make the best gun they can to build a good reputation, they hoped to go straight in at the high price level using the magpul brand name to justify the price.

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It is a shame that at the moment the PDR is not spot on after all the hype. I'm still hoping to see some long/medium-term reports to see how it holds up outside the relative safety of the shop showroom.

 

I'm just whimsically hoping that this is just a bump in the road, rather than the quiet rumblings before a full on storm. :D

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Just look at the Masada: great externals, average performance, lowish reliability.  Has anyone ever bought a Masada exclusively because they were looking for something rock solid or that could outperform the opposition?

 

It seems to me the PDR has gone down more or less exactly the same path.

 

If you're willing to do some modding on top of a highish asking price, then perhaps you end up with a gun that works and looks great.  But it doesn't reflect well on PTS's business model.

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