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Molehills become a touch more prominent on premium-priced, long awaited, massively hyped guns though.

 

I could buy a Real Sword for a touch more than the cost of a PDR, hell my old CA SA58 cost that much and was damn bulletproof. For that price I'm not giving any leniency.

 

If anything, this release is highlighting the gulf in motives between the airsofter, the airsofter who bought the hype and preordered and the retailer whose interest is to sell these guns.

The PDR isn't what I'd call "premium priced", it's £320. For me, "Premium" priced guns start at around the £400 mark and higher.

You could buy a Real Sword Type97 for not too much more than the cost of a PDR, if you could find one that was in stock. But remember that the Real-Sword Type 97s have their own issues, including more proprietary parts, Tappet plates that fail rather easily and even less battery space, and, when all's said and done, a Real Sword Type97 isn't a PDR.

 

I don't think there's any reason to dismiss the issues as nonexistant, but it's also ridiculous to decry that they're earth-shattering, irreparable issues that mean the gun should never be sold.

 

Yes, my trigger mech failed after about 7-800 rounds (on the third hi cap magazine shot) and I had to remount and tighten the trigger mechanism (it basically fell apart).  I would attribute this to poor quality control/assembly since PTS went this way with the design.

 

There is absolutely no evidence that the first hundred or so were made with pre-production/prototype parts.

 

I have stayed very objective in my review of the PDR-C.  I have listed physical flaws I've seen on my PDR-C and praised certain design elements as well as stated a few  "would be nice to haves".  Most of the negativity has come from other people's experiences with the PDR-C as well as perceptive biases based on their own experiences with gearbox designs.  I respect the opinion of all the members who post here.  Everyone has their own view and you should just take them as a grain of salt if you disagree.

I'm sorry to hear that your trigger mechanism failed in that way, and I concur that the design of the trigger mechanism relies on a higher degree of quality control than what PTS/Ares seem to posses (The last-tooth on my piston was mounted the wrong way round, for example), but that doesn't indicate a model-wide problem.

 

You've definitely stayed objective and reasonable in your review, and for that I have to thank you as it made fixing the ones that I've fixed that much easier.

 

Aod, are you a retailer?

I am a professional, degree-certified Engineer in the fields of Electrical Engineering, Digital Forensics and Network Security.

I am currently employed in a position as a Mechanical Engineer.

 

Firstly I don't own this rifle! Why? Because I read the review that the OP posted, and good number of follow up posts basically confirming his findings. Now I see people coming on saying that the OP is over-reacting, the problems can be fixed, and best yet.."I've never had a problem, my guns great". Seriously, WTF?!?! What is the point of a review section if someone bothers to do an in depth review (in this case, well documented) only to have his *albatross* handed to him, talk about ungrateful. But all that aside, clearly there are folks on here that want this gun to sell, either for business reasons or to justify their purchase choice (bad choices love company). As a potential customer all I get from all this is that for every "good" gun, I'm just as likely to get a bad one. At that price I don't want to have to do any fixes, why should I? If I wanna build models I'll pick up a Tamiya model kit and change my hobby. My hobby is airsoft skirmishing, the tools I buy should allow me to take part in my sport, if I'm in the safe zone dremelling out a £300+ rifle more fool me.

I don't think anyone has been either rude or handed the OP his albatross. Please calm down.

There is no evidence to suggest that the failure rate of these rifles is anywhere near 50%.

In my experience it's less than 10%

 

I am relaxed :) my money is safe!!

 

I appreciate that there is two sides to this story, but, there really should only be one....the gun should work. I'm not being naive, most new products that hit the market, usually come with glitches, and things the designers never considered. I recently bought a Mad bull Daniel Defence rail, and the designers clearly had never heard of the term "tool access"! So I know the realities of the situation. But Magpul seem to have screwed up in areas that have been solved by other companies years ago. Dodgy gearbox shells on the Masada! Why? Gearbox shells aren't new, so their R&D department must lack some basic web-fu skills. And on PDR, trigger issues? This isn't the first bull-pup rifle to hit the airsoft scene.

 

Probably the answer is simple. Greed. That's right, I said it! GREED, the idea that parts and designs need to be proprietary, thereby locking customers in and restricting the use of after market parts. So, now, with this strategy, you can't just make a simple V2 or V3 gearbox, it has to be something new, well that backfired! And, I'm guessing they wanted to pull the same stunt here. Rather than coming onto the scene and wanting to make the best gun they can to build a good reputation, they hoped to go straight in at the high price level using the magpul brand name to justify the price.

Yes, the gun should work, but guess what? Airsoft guns are "complex" mechanical devices built to a low price with cheap labour in the far-east to designs that have been shamelessly stolen or cloned from one or two original, "correctly engineered" models from Japan. As an Engineer, the fact that most Airsoft guns work at all is both a mystery and a small miracle.

 

How many new Airsoft guns have been absolutely flawless immediately from release. I recall that even the much lauded Tokyo Marui M1911A1 and M14 had numerous issues when they were launched, with 1911s only firing twelve rounds before running out of gas and M14 cutoff levers wearing away into dust within a week.

 

While it would be lovely if the PDR used a standard Gearbox, there are no gearboxes currently on the market that would fit the PDR without requiring a change in the guns external dimensions. Given that the PDR was intended as a test-bed for the Real-Steel Magpul PDRs ergonomics, using a standard gearbox would have defeated the purpose entirely. Additionally, I absolutely guarantee that if they had, this thread would be packed to the gills with complaints about the guns inaccurate dimensions.

 

Perhaps you should calm down and evaluate the situation a little more objectively.

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*slams head onto desk*   Dear Magpul   Please get a company can produce decent internals for your guns (e.g G&P)   Yours Sincerely Anyone who wants to buy your product.

Why sure.     Oh wait, you meant the mod didn't you?

Everything he's posted has been factual, you're really not in any position to instruct anybody to discontinue providing relevant information.  He's also never made claims that PTS are amazing in every

I am calm, I just refuse to congratulate a lack of TQM on Magpuls part. Actually, in response to one of your statements, I do think that guns not working straight out of the box shouldn't be sold, unless the buyer has no value attached to money.

 

I'm also an Engineer (Automotive) and so I'm no stranger to customer satisfaction and design faults. Products are rushed out of the door in every industry to meet the project deadlines and ease investor angst, however, it's a risk companies take, it's now down to the consumer to decide whether that risk was justified or not.

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I'm also an Engineer (Automotive) and so I'm no stranger to customer satisfaction and design faults. Products are rushed out of the door in every industry to meet the project deadlines and ease investor angst, however, it's a risk companies take, it's now down to the consumer to decide whether that risk was justified or not.

 

That's the reason why you buy from a retailer that has good warrantys . Repair facilities . And excellent customer service .

The amount of cars that get faults from new , design errors , faulty parts , recalls is still very high .

Same with an Airsoft gun . If you buy from a reputable retailer the problems are the retailers to solve . If you decide to buy elsewhere be it on your own head if an issue arises .

I have seen 50,000 pound cars with problems from new , same with cheaper models . Do I slate of the product ? , nope , I take it back to where I brought it . How you are treated and how good the outcome of the problem is , will determine my reaction ...

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This isn't slating the product. We're 9 pages into a product review, where the reviewer found the product to be less than satisfactory. Slating the product, as you put it, suggests a bunch of people with nothing better to do than find faults. This discussion is no more based on "slating the product" than you would find in any "Which Buy" magazine or Top Gear, or any other medium that reviews products.

 

No doubt Magpul would love it if everybody took your attitude, and rather than make a fuss, or detail the problems you had, simply quietly take the product back to where you got it and see how they can help. That really helps potential buyers to make an informed purchase choice.

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It does help buyers due to the fact that magpul spares are only available from registered magpul pts retailers so if you do get issues that will be your first port of call . Some shops just sell guns , other shops have bulletproof reputations to uphold and will do their utmost to help the customer and keep that reputation intact .

Pts magpul run a closed shop when it comes to obtaining spares etc . So you can't order bits direct from them if you are not a regognised retailer .

Every gun has its issues and foibles , some are solvable , some you have to live with or improve yourself . Even systemas are notoriously bad out of the box . Its up to the consumer if they buy one or not . I myself don't like ares gearboxes but I have to admit after a new motor and a couple of tweaks my m4 cqbr has been very reliable and shoots well . Whereas my umarex g36c has been one of the most unreliable guns I have ever owned , yet other people really rate them .nowadays I play smart and only buy guns with long warrantys on them , that way if it goes tits up I get a replacement or refund . Pro Airsoft give 2 year warrantys on all their top tech guns and back it up . So that way I get to skirmish for two years with no worries ..it depends how long the warranty is on the pts pdr and if its issues are solvable , from what I have seen so far it appears they are .

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I am calm, I just refuse to congratulate a lack of TQM on Magpuls part. Actually, in response to one of your statements, I do think that guns not working straight out of the box shouldn't be sold, unless the buyer has no value attached to money.

 

I'm also an Engineer (Automotive) and so I'm no stranger to customer satisfaction and design faults. Products are rushed out of the door in every industry to meet the project deadlines and ease investor angst, however, it's a risk companies take, it's now down to the consumer to decide whether that risk was justified or not.

Try shopping from a store that actually tests guns before sending them out. I completely agree, if a gun doesn't work out the box then it shouldn't be sold, end of discussion as far as I'm concerned.

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I am a professional, degree-certified Engineer in the fields of Electrical Engineering, Digital Forensics and Network Security.

I am currently employed in a position as a Mechanical Engineer.

 

Always nice to meet a fellow Degree-certified Engineer currently employed in a Mechanical Engineering position. I tip my hat to you sir.

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so, did the guys at epicairsofthd know that its got a quick change spring gearbox? they didnt mention it at all and even advertised the sponsor for the go to place to get the spring change.

And charge you 20 quid for a 20 second job ! £1.00 pound a second , now that's what I call an earner

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Indeed it's lacking in those aspects and that's something that should be rectified, but none of his reviews have focused on internals in terms of stripping it down and going through the gearbox. At least it provides a bit of info on rate of fire and accuracy, which we haven't had a lot of so far.

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Always nice to meet a fellow Degree-certified Engineer currently employed in a Mechanical Engineering position. I tip my hat to you sir.

I honestly can't tell if sarcasm or sincerity. Either way, I tip my hat to you, my good sir! I hope you have a bounteous and profitable day!

 

And charge you 20 quid for a 20 second job ! £1.00 pound a second , now that's what I call an earner

I wouldn't shop at an Airsoft retailer that doesn't at least give me the option of having the gun downgraded free of charge.

 

Indeed it's lacking in those aspects and that's something that should be rectified, but none of his reviews have focused on internals in terms of stripping it down and going through the gearbox. At least it provides a bit of info on rate of fire and accuracy, which we haven't had a lot of so far.

I was going to comment on those things in their Video, but it was clear that that wasn't their focus so I didn't feel the need. Still a useful and informative video :)

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It does help buyers due to the fact that magpul spares are only available from registered magpul pts retailers so if you do get issues that will be your first port of call . Some shops just sell guns , other shops have bulletproof reputations to uphold and will do their utmost to help the customer and keep that reputation intact .

Pts magpul run a closed shop when it comes to obtaining spares etc . So you can't order bits direct from them if you are not a regognised retailer .

Every gun has its issues and foibles , some are solvable , some you have to live with or improve yourself . Even systemas are notoriously bad out of the box . Its up to the consumer if they buy one or not . I myself don't like ares gearboxes but I have to admit after a new motor and a couple of tweaks my m4 cqbr has been very reliable and shoots well . Whereas my umarex g36c has been one of the most unreliable guns I have ever owned , yet other people really rate them .nowadays I play smart and only buy guns with long warrantys on them , that way if it goes tits up I get a replacement or refund . Pro Airsoft give 2 year warrantys on all their top tech guns and back it up . So that way I get to skirmish for two years with no worries ..it depends how long the warranty is on the pts pdr and if its issues are solvable , from what I have seen so far it appears they are .

 

 

This is terrible.

 

First of warranty is negative as you void it if you open the gearbox or do changes to the gun in anyway. From the info I have gotten this weapon needs improvements before it is usable. Including a single only block, mosfet, new motor, 11.1V lipo, etc. On that video AOD posted I could hear the windup time was long, and the single system did (once at least), not fire after pulling the trigger. RoF was good when it first was going. Anyway, my point is many airsofters would void the warranty to get the PDR up to par. Specialy if you are going to use it in a CQB enviroment where you need to use single only.

 

Further taking into account that many will void the warranty they can’t get spare parts. As you stated, one needs to be a retailer of Magpul pts. 

 

To the review part I applaud this review, looking past arnies forum. There is excessively many reviews that go something like this: “This gun is awesome in every way, only negative I can find is the box it came in is not cool.”

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The warranty is not void if the shop you brought it from does the work for you . Many of my guns have had improvements to them , tightbore,motors , bearings , gearsets etc whilst still being covered under warranty .

Depends on the retailers I suppose when it comes down to wArranty rules and what is covered . Some being better than others .

I have never had any issues with the shops I use

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This is terrible.

 

First of warranty is negative as you void it if you open the gearbox or do changes to the gun in anyway. From the info I have gotten this weapon needs improvements before it is usable. Including a single only block, mosfet, new motor, 11.1V lipo, etc. On that video AOD posted I could hear the windup time was long, and the single system did (once at least), not fire after pulling the trigger. RoF was good when it first was going. Anyway, my point is many airsofters would void the warranty to get the PDR up to par. Specialy if you are going to use it in a CQB enviroment where you need to use single only.

 

Further taking into account that many will void the warranty they can’t get spare parts. As you stated, one needs to be a retailer of Magpul pts. 

 

To the review part I applaud this review, looking past arnies forum. There is excessively many reviews that go something like this: “This gun is awesome in every way, only negative I can find is the box it came in is not cool.”

To be fair, I was shooting it from my off hand at an awkward angle because of how I was holding the camera, the long windup was because I'd used the spring release button before hand and I was still getting used to the changes I'd made to the trigger mechanism so I was pulling it quite gingerly.

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This is terrible.

 

First of warranty is negative as you void it if you open the gearbox or do changes to the gun in anyway. From the info I have gotten this weapon needs improvements before it is usable. Including a single only block, mosfet, new motor, 11.1V lipo, etc. On that video AOD posted I could hear the windup time was long, and the single system did (once at least), not fire after pulling the trigger. RoF was good when it first was going. Anyway, my point is many airsofters would void the warranty to get the PDR up to par. Specialy if you are going to use it in a CQB enviroment where you need to use single only.

 

Further taking into account that many will void the warranty they can’t get spare parts. As you stated, one needs to be a retailer of Magpul pts. 

 

To the review part I applaud this review, looking past arnies forum. There is excessively many reviews that go something like this: “This gun is awesome in every way, only negative I can find is the box it came in is not cool.”

 

I don't see how some of those things are faults of the PDR. To run an 11.1v Lipo, you should be fitting a mosfet to any rifle as a matter of good course. You don't need an 11.1v Lipo with this thing, nor do you need one with anything else. It might need a new motor perhaps, but its liveable without one, and the single only block isn't a fault of the gun either, as it was always advertised as never having a fire selector.

 

This gun definitely does have faults and issues, but I fail to see how anything you've pointed out, bar the motor, is really the PDR's fault that it doesn't match you're preferences.

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Just saw a perfect anology for this gun . ' you need hands like Jeremy beadle to hold it properly ' lol

 

 

As for running a standard gun that's not specifically designed to run an 11.1 lipo . Big no no unless you have fitted a MOSFET to stop the trigger contacts arcing out and wearing prematurely .

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I suppose it fits me fine, probably because of my elfin, pixie-like hands that are the same size as they were when I was fifteen.

 

I fitted a MOSFET to my PDR last night, which concludes the upgrades until or if it breaks.

I changed the Gearset to a set of ASG-Ultimate/Lonex 16:1 Highspeeds, Motor to a custom-made motor using a Classic-Army Super-High-Speed and a Tienly Ultra-torque casing and regreased everything in the gearbox.

While It was open, all the piston guiderails and the BB feed tube were polished... mostly because I could. It's now also been fitted with an AIRFET non-braked 'FET.

 

On a 9.6v NiMH, the gun's running with a rate of fire that most guns get on an 11.1v LiPo, and on a 7.4v LiPo the trigger response and rate of fire is better than most guns on a 9.6v NiMH. I've not tried it on an 11.1v LiPo because I'm still running the stock Ares clear plastic piston, and those have a tendancy to shear off at the back on 11.1v batteries.

 

The really entertaining bit is that, with the FET now allowing the motor to draw all the current without the restriction of the Microswitch (which was rated to a miserly 16A), it's drawing so much current that the 16AWG stock wiring gets really hot during use. :D

 

Looking up the specs of 16AWG wire, it suggests that the Current-capacity is 16A so I think the gun is probably drawing close to if not a little bit more than this in sustained full auto :D

It does horrible things to Vapex 1300mAh 7.4v stick batteries XD

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