Magpul PTS PDR-C

[Noveske]

The long-awaited Magpul PTS PDR-C is finally out.  Lucky to be one of the first to pick one up.  MSRP is HKD2500 (USD320).  Here are my initial impressions.

 

 

Box set comes with:

 

1 x PDR-C

1 x PMAG 20 with dust cover

1 x Dummy Round

1 x Instruction Manual

1 x Warranty Card

2 x Packs of Silica Gel (BONUS!)

 

 

To be honest I was a little disappointed that the package contents.  For the price, I would have expected at least a pair of MBUS.

 

 

Front Flashider comes off and is 14mm CCW (-)

 

 

Battery goes into the grip will only take the short 4" Lipos (for the record, the PDR-C comes standard with a mini Tamiya plug, but I changed mine to a Dean's):

 

 

Magwell.  Mag-catch is metal:

 

Removing the cheekrest reveals the hop-up adjustment knob:

 

 

Shoots about 330FPS out of the box (1.25J with 0.25g):

 

 

 

 

Overall, I'm really not that impressed.  Polymer is well made as expected from PTS, however, fake weapon features (ambi charging handles, ambi ejection port) do not function or have any purpose.  Balance is rear heavy (as a bullpup should be).  The only sling attachment is the hole behind the magwell (not a QD) which is also polymer (not sure if it's reinforced inside).  Gun seems too simple? Or is it just me?  I guess it's the design of the PDR-C but I like my guns with more detail. 

 

Compared to the KRISS:

 

More pics of dissection coming!

Edited February 1, 2013 by Noveske

[Warning]

YES! YES! YES! *runs off to get a new set of underwear*

 

I cannot wait for the gearbox tear down

[Noveske]

Upper disassembly, 10.5" barrel tucked away:

 

 

Proprietary Gearbox:

 

 

Dial-style hop-up chamber:

 

Short motor and quick-change spring hatch:

 

 

Will field it tomorrow and then gearbox disassembly.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Noveske

[Deadmeat]

Excellent news Noveske! Which HK store did you buy it from for that price?

[uscmCorps]

Overall, I'm really not that impressed.  Polymer is well made as expected from PTS, however, fake weapon features (ambi charging handles, ambi ejection port) do not function or have any purpose.  Balance is rear heavy (as a bullpup should be).  The only sling attachment is the hole behind the magwell (not a QD) which is also polymer (not sure if it's reinforced inside).  Gun seems too simple? Or is it just me?  I guess it's the design of the PDR-C but I like my guns with more detail. 

 

Being an AEG, what did you want these two features to do?

[validtumoralarm]

I would expect that the charging handles would at least open the ejection port, as on most AEG's.

[uscmCorps]

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the context of the PDR though. The PDR's ejection port is always open. On the conceptualized design the shell casings pour out the internal ejection port and then moves forwards and out through the side ports (similar to the FN F2000). On "most AEGs" the charging handle opens the ejection port to gain access to the hopup adjustment. That wouldn't work on the PDR since the hopup chamber is rearwards into the gun which is why you simply remove the back cover to adjust the hopup and then replace the back cover. It's actually easier to adjust the hopup on the PDR than it is on most AR15 type AEGs. Heck even the PDR's hopup adjustment is ambidextrous.

[TheFull9]

Indeed, the ejection port being setup the way it is, there's absolutely nothing for the cocking handles to actually do on this AEG.  The ejection port cover switch.. switches the angle of the ejection control baffle, same as the RS.  If these controls performed functions different to the RS then people would, without a doubt, complain about it.

 

I'm not a fan of the sling point setup as I've expressed in other threads, but again it mimics the real firearm and that's exactly the sort of things airsofters would *badgeress* like crazy about if it wasn't faithful to the original.  Historically, PTS have often released after-market products to alleviate that sort of issue later on down the line once they've thought up a good solution.  Though personally I'd just get a bit of 550 on there and hey-presto.

[Deadmeat]

I just can't wait until PTS release the front mounted LED flashlight, then the extended battery grip and possibly a thigh holster!!!  Need to keep saving those pennies!

[PureSilver]

Being an AEG, what did you want these two features to do?

 

I'd like the charging handles to be movable and spring loaded. Are they just moulded in, Noveske?

[uscmCorps]

The charging handle is movable and spring loaded. But serve no function on this AEG.

[Noveske]

Being an AEG, what did you want these two features to do?

EBB perhaps?  Or perhaps a more realistic bolt that travels full length and mimics the RS bolt a little more?

 

I'd like the charging handles to be movable and spring loaded. Are they just moulded in, Noveske?

 

They pull and spring back.  Travel is about half the length.

 

 

On that note, I wish the cheekrest was actually adjustable.  Seems they designed it to perhaps have optional cheekrest pieces at different heights they may or may not release in the future.  But an adjustable one would've seemed more intuitive (like their ACR stock).

 

A note on ergonomics: I've noticed the pistol grip is very short (even for my small Asian hands) and holding the PDR-C with one hand can get quite uncomfortable as my wrist keeps pressing into the rear bracestrap.  I believe for most people, you'll only be able to wrap your middle and ring finger around the grip while leaving your pinky to fend for itself.

 

Also, the mag-release is very stiff.  May take some time to loosen up.

[uscmCorps]

EBB perhaps?  Or perhaps a more realistic bolt that travels full length and mimics the RS bolt a little more?

 

They pull and spring back.  Travel is about half the length.

 

On that note, I wish the cheekrest was actually adjustable.  Seems they designed it to perhaps have optional cheekrest pieces at different heights they may or may not release in the future.  But an adjustable one would've seemed more intuitive (like their ACR stock).

 

A note on ergonomics: I've noticed the pistol grip is very short (even for my small Asian hands) and holding the PDR-C with one hand can get quite uncomfortable as my wrist keeps pressing into the rear bracestrap.  I believe for most people, you'll only be able to wrap your middle and ring finger around the grip while leaving your pinky to fend for itself.

 

Also, the mag-release is very stiff.  May take some time to loosen up.

 

Some people like EBB, and some don't. There isn't a single EBB system on the market today that feels remotely realistic. TM SOPMOD for example has the recoil impulse going in the completely wrong direction. I'd rather disable it and have the other features in the SOPMOD system rather than have a unrealistic recoil impulse. Most people who like the recoil have no clue what a real gun is supposed to feel like, so for them, it's fun. But realistic, it is not. In comparison, while GBBR's have weak recoil, the impulse direction is realistic. An EBB system as well as a few other features were considered, however that'd delay the release ... and at this point no one wants to see it delayed anymore. Until someone can produce a EBB system that impulses in the right direction, I'd personally rather it wasn't implemented. What I would love to see implemented is system stoppage on last round fired. But that'd entail more development time than can be afforded right now.

 

I often think people forget that there were a lot of design specs (charging handle LOP, ergonomics, cheekrest height, sling loop) that were non-negotiable with the original Magpul designers of the gun...

 

Charging Handle: The charging handle travel is what Magpul wanted it to be. The charging handle serves no purpose, so if they really wanted it to go the entire length of the slotted rail, they would have. I was in that meeting when it was discussed.

 

Cheekrest: Again, it was specifically designed to be at the height it was released as. If more cheek rests in different heights come out later has yet to be seen, however, it was decided from on top during discussion for features on the gun that the real version would have had a non-adjustable cheek rest.

 

Ergonomics: I too had issue with the grip feeling short. I don't have large hands by any means either, and the first time I handled the gun two years ago, that was one of the first things I noticed. The guys who designed the original are the all American types with far bigger hands than I. The grip size was purposely designed to be what it was due to the priority of being as small in profile as it can be. That said, when I was demoing the gun during last Shot Show (2012) I examined the internal cavity depth. Personally I use buffer tube lipo batteries in all my AEGs nowadays. I have been pushing since last year for a grip extension as it'd serve two things: give you just a little more length for a buffer tube battery, and give you more surface area for a fuller grip. I'm still pushing for it, and they're aware of a need for it in the market.

 

Sling loop: I won't deny, that bothered me too. I've had conversations with the original designers that I felt sling loops on either side of the gun would be a good idea. Their response was that the Sling loops would detract from the slim profile of the gun. This gun was designed after all to be used for either concealed personal security (much like the MP5 PDWs) or as a crew E&E weapon and needed to be able to fit into small places. It was not intended to be used as a primary weapon, or even a back up weapon. It was designed as a SHTF weapon. It may not suit my needs. It may not suit the needs of most airsoft skirmishers. To them, that is irrelevant.

 

Things had to be a certain way, or there'd be no PDR. Period.

[PureSilver]

Are they going to do the PDR-D, too?

 

[EDIT]uscmCorps, since you seem to be intimately involved in all this, I don't suppose you have anyone I could contact to get some parts from one of these? A GBBR conversion with G&Pmags is calling out to me.[/EDIT]

Edited February 2, 2013 by PureSilver

[uscmCorps]

Yes. Eventually.

 

Edit: For parts, you're going to have to go through their contact page I'm afraid.

Edited February 2, 2013 by uscmCorps

[FTZ-WildeCard]

Interesting, thanks for putting this together -- Can't wait to see how much the mark up is once it hits the UK! :/ 

[Deadmeat]

Interesting, thanks for putting this together -- Can't wait to see how much the mark up is once it hits the UK! :/ 

Well to give you an idea, the preorder from LandWarrior is £319!

http://www.landwarriorairsoft.com/acatalog/KWA-KRISS-Vector-GBB---PRE-ORDER-DEPOSIT-EB_PDR.html#.UQzUGhEgGSM

 

Oh and I tip my cap to you uscmCorps for all the top insight/info over the past year!!

[PianoBlack]

uscmCorps,

 

The reduced pistol grip length is a feature I've noticed in other PDW designs such as the KAC SR635. It was ok, but my pinky was basically slipping off the bottom of the grip.

 

How does she compare to the P90 in feel and construction?

 

Cheers,

Piano

[Noveske]

uscmCorps,

 

The reduced pistol grip length is a feature I've noticed in other PDW designs such as the KAC SR635. It was ok, but my pinky was basically slipping off the bottom of the grip.

 

How does she compare to the P90 in feel and construction?

 

Cheers,

Piano

 

Oh the grip is much shorter than a KACSR36 or PDW.   Here's a comparison vs the MIAD:

 

 

Compared to the P90, the P90 has a much larger and steeper grip.  I believe the overall size of the PDR is a bit longer.  In terms of construction, the PDR uses a much more rigid polymer than the P90 (I'm assuming you're referring to the Tokyo Marui one).  The PDR is also a little more rear heavy than the P90.

[DarkLite]

I've heard from a friend who picked one up that the trigger transfer bar requires a grub screw which can apparently cause problems if not placed just right - to the tune of semi auto not working or causing a runaway gun when you plug in a battery. Any insight on that?

[Noveske]

Is your friend IBMedic? haha I heard he already broke his PDR within the first few hours.  I haven't had a problem with mine just yet although I haven't had time to put mine through any torture test just yet.  If mine does have the problem, I'll definately report it.

 

EDIT:

 

PTS POLYMER FAIL!!

 

Turns out one of the retaining tabs that hold the upper and lower receiver together snapped off before I even opened the box.  I noticed that there was only 1 retaining tab and thought i had broke it perhaps when opening it (which didn't make any sense to me), but upon closer inexpection, i noticed that the break was clean (which is odd since I thought PTS polymer would be much more ductile and less brittle).  Furthermore, I found the broken piece floating around in the box.  VERY VERY disappointed.

 

Edited February 3, 2013 by Noveske

[bladerunner168]

Will that be covered under warranty from whichever shop you bought from?

[FTZ-WildeCard]

Hm .. hope this was just a one off, but yes very disappointing.

 

Hope you can get that replaced soon!

[Noveske]

Will that be covered under warranty from whichever shop you bought from?

 

PTS offers a 30 day warranty so we shall see.

 

Insides:

 

Here is the fake charging handle/bolt mechanism.  The handles can be removed with the two small switches on each side:  Bolt is really not a bolt, but more of a bracket:

 

 

Hop-up Mechnism:

 

 

Front trigger/mag-catch mechanism.  The trigger/mag-catch are controlled by 2 rods on each side of the PDR.  Left side is connected to the selector plate/firing mechanism, right rod controls the mag-catch which is located on the left side of the gear-box but mechanically operated from the right:

 

 

Mag-catch mechanism (right side):

 

Here is the PDR proprietary bearing gearbox.  Note that there is a bb feed tube built into the gearbox:

 

 

Right side:

 

Left-side.  The selector plate moves half length on a semi-fire pull and full length on a full auto-pull:

 

One really nifty feature on this gearbox is the spring release button.  This is accessible even when the gun is assembled on the bottom of the gun near the magwell:

 

 

Inside the gearbox:

 

 

Gears stacked vertically:

 

Piston:

 

Spring:

 

Micro-switch trigger:

 

BB Feed tube:

 

[fiddlesticks4220]

Ouch, I think I will have to wait this out.