DangerWerx Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Hey Guys, I wanted to start off by saying I love gas guns, classics in particular. One classic airsoft engine that I have come to love is the Escort platform. I was blessed to fall into an odd airsoft group in southern California that fabricates some amazing Escort based projects. Their influence has rubbed off on me and I have decided to try my own at getting an engine up and running. The engine is based off of the original Escort Mp5 with modifications to fit into the receiver. I chose the XCR model as a based because of several reasons - Feed system is built into body ( easy chamber alignment ) - Not an M4, takes M4 mags - Easy to disassembly - Strong barrel mounting points, can take a beating Deviations from Mp5 engine - Aeg compatible barrel - Redesigned Chamber (for barrel/hop) The first iteration looked like so... Parts are Chamber - peach Blue - Bolt Bolt Carrier- Pink Spring Guide - Yellow Next Iteration of the Design Changed from a Bolt Carrier design to a Bolt guide for easier manufacture. Added items too Chamber - Peach Bolt - Blue Bolt Guide - Pink Spring Guide - Yellow Nozzle - Purple Transfer Valve - Green Once I was confident in the design of the parts, I had initial fitment parts 3d printed. The printed test parts, chamber, bolt and bolt guide They turned out much better than anticipated. Strong with a 100% infill, I have no doubt these parts can take a beating. Here they are installed onto the XCR barrel Bolt and Bolt guide in the upper receiver And here is a view of the chamber and bolt in the upper receiver We are now mapping out the lower receiver and designing a fire control group to work with the selector. I am leaning to the Escort Mp5's method of a semi and auto lever engaging a contact plate. I'll post more info once we hit another milestone. - Dave Link to post Share on other sites
Horsem4n Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 looks really cool. if it would help, you can contact tony rizzo at tnkgunz.com. he's the american distributor for daytonagun. Link to post Share on other sites
DangerWerx Posted March 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 looks really cool. if it would help, you can contact tony rizzo at tnkgunz.com. he's the american distributor for daytonagun. Thanks, I'm good though. I have a good set of mentors who are knowledgeable in Escort engines. One used to work for Mr. Tawada. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuri Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I've thought about scratch building an escort engine as well so I'll be watching this with interest. Are the 3D printed parts just for mock-up, or are you going to use them in the final assembly? Link to post Share on other sites
Dr.Arnie Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Looks lovely, may I ask what model printer your using? And if that's ABS or PLA? It looks like PLA but thought I'd ask :-) Link to post Share on other sites
DangerWerx Posted March 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I've thought about scratch building an escort engine as well so I'll be watching this with interest. Are the 3D printed parts just for mock-up, or are you going to use them in the final assembly? They are a mock up. Cutting chambers and bolts take too much time to cut. Dedicating a whole day for a chamber was not appealing. So the major points that mount inside the receiver were printed first to make sure our dimensions were right. We will probably have to 3d print the subchambers though. Looks lovely, may I ask what model printer your using? And if that's ABS or PLA? It looks like PLA but thought I'd ask :-) I actually used a local firm to have them UV-Resin printed. Polyjet Verowhite to be exact. the stuff is extremely durable and machines easily. Gums up composites though. I had my time with Makerbots and a few repraps, they can produce great stuff if you babysit and have a few tries. Newer gen machines are looking go though, particularly the Series A Type 1 Machine. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuri Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 There are multiple reciprocating or 'rod' seals in an Escort engine where different parts seal against the nozzle. A couple in the transfer valve, one inside bolt and possibly one more in the chamber. Once you get around to those parts, I would be very grateful if you could give some critical dimensions. What size O-rings you end up using, depth of O-ring grooves etc. Also what sort of tooling you use to cut the O-ring grooves. The sealing of the chamber puzzles me. The Escort engine fires at a point where the nozzle is already moving backwards for a reload. Because of this, it doesn't seem like the lips of the hop rubber will be enough to form a seal like they do in an AEG. So an additional rod seal must be placed inside the chamber, but it seems like it would be difficult to cut. You'd need a fairly long and thin boring bar. Link to post Share on other sites
Horsem4n Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 current daytonaguns use a long hop up rubber. the lips are essentially an inch long. long enough so the nozzle stays sealed until the BB leaves the barrel. Link to post Share on other sites
DangerWerx Posted March 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 There are multiple reciprocating or 'rod' seals in an Escort engine where different parts seal against the nozzle. A couple in the transfer valve, one inside bolt and possibly one more in the chamber. Once you get around to those parts, I would be very grateful if you could give some critical dimensions. What size O-rings you end up using, depth of O-ring grooves etc. Also what sort of tooling you use to cut the O-ring grooves. The sealing of the chamber puzzles me. The Escort engine fires at a point where the nozzle is already moving backwards for a reload. Because of this, it doesn't seem like the lips of the hop rubber will be enough to form a seal like they do in an AEG. So an additional rod seal must be placed inside the chamber, but it seems like it would be difficult to cut. You'd need a fairly long and thin boring bar. Sure thing. You are right on the rod seals. I have no problems letting ya know which O-rings to use, they are mostly lifted from the Mp5. I'll probably be a little more tight lipped on other dimensions. The nozzle of the Engine actually sits pretty deep into the hop up rubber. It is more akin to a vsr-10 hop up rubber than it does an AEG. Both the VSR-10 and Escorts fire from a close bolt position than the usual AEG's open position Link to post Share on other sites
Yuri Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Ah, I get it now. I thought daytonagun was using an AEG rubber but it only looks similar from the outside. That makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites
DangerWerx Posted March 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Ah, I get it now. I thought daytonagun was using an AEG rubber but it only looks similar from the outside. That makes sense. Yea. He has casted his own hop rubbers. We will be casting our own since we do not want to be tied to DG's supply. Link to post Share on other sites
Sallinen Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 One way I think you should improve/differentiate from current Escort engine variants would be to add a hammerish action that deals with the valve button. Sort of like any GIM GBBR works except instead knocking valve knocker the hammer just pushes the shooting valve open. What do you think about this? Link to post Share on other sites
DangerWerx Posted March 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 We've thought about it. Don't think it will be too efficient considering the location of the transfer valve and engine's need for a steady stream of gas, instead of a quick burst. The Escort engine's disconnector is really good for timing issues in that regard. the location of the hammer in relation to the transfer valve would mean a longer receiver is needed to work. The mp5 engine is pretty much the shortest engine you can go for most projects ( have 1/2 inch remaining for the XCR engine) What do I feel is an easier attempt at using a hammer design would be the old Brass Eagle Nightmare valve or the current KWA NS2 cylinder. Both systems have better provisions for a bolt to recock the hammer. Both can be machined by hobby machinists. Link to post Share on other sites
[NL]Infinity Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 This is awesome! Really curious to see how it turns out. keep it up Link to post Share on other sites
wolfgeorge Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 Do you have any updates? Awesome project! Wolf Link to post Share on other sites
DangerWerx Posted May 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 Still working on it. Since my first post, we figured out how to mount an aeg pistol grip and the general locations of the trigger (aps M4) and the rough areas where the levers will go. Waiting on Echo1 to restock selector switches to get that squared away. We've had to change the chamber design as well as the bolt. Having a 2 stage bolt delay was giving us headaches. Should see first steel prototype bits in the coming month. Link to post Share on other sites
DangerWerx Posted July 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 Just a quick update. We have machined some of the parts in steel. Makes a very satisfying PING when the bolt slams into the Chamber The Chamber, bolt, bolt guide, spring guide and selector are now steel. Will change the bolt guide pretty soon, away from the bullet design towards a simple bushing for smoother action. Spring used is from my DG AK High-Rate Spring (Coming Soon) Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Excellent. Please keep the updates coming, this is a genuinely interesting and alternative project, and you're making the parts properly. What more could I ask for?! Link to post Share on other sites
Yuri Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Looks awesome. Will you make the transfer valve out of steel as well? Usually they seem to be either brass or aluminium and I've wondered if they get beat up by the steel parts. Is there a feeding tube built into the lower receiver that will direct the BBs into that hole in the bottom of the chamber? Is the piece with the o-rings held in place by just the nozzle tube passing trough it? Link to post Share on other sites
Sallinen Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 Any news on this? This is the project that triggers my interests the most. Link to post Share on other sites
DangerWerx Posted September 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Getting hop up Rubber molds finalized. The XCR and a few other pipe projects ( I am on pre-order for that A&K MG42) are on hold until we can get the hop up rubber squared away. We don't want to be tied to DG's supply. Link to post Share on other sites
DangerWerx Posted September 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 Hop-Mold Pins These Have been sent off for prototyping. The level of detail is too much for our manual machining ability. We'll have a pair of rubbers cast for testing in our projects (XCR, Stens, ???) as well as a few DG AK's and M249 Link to post Share on other sites
Sallinen Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 Its great to see other people interested using the Escort engine. Really looking forward to anything if you decide to do something more with said engine Link to post Share on other sites
DangerWerx Posted October 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Test cast Hop up rubbers turned out well. A few more tests need to be done before a design is finalized. Once completed I'll have a set of pins cnc'd for the molding process. Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Good to see progress is continuing! Link to post Share on other sites
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