I now understand why some fields ban green lasers...

[FireKnife]

<snip>

 

Sorry but could you do a bit better on the 'English' please? Not me having a go but you can use better phrases, people instead of 'ppl' and capitalise your leading words in each sentence.

 

Thanks.

 

But as for the issues of lasers again it is just going to be this, if a person can use them safely then why not let them? I use a rubber knife now, I know it is quite rigid and I don't strike down with it, just a firm tap to save unnecessary injury.

 

Going on about the damage a laser does to the eye for most people is just telling them what they already know. If you don't like lasers fine, but we don't need to be told over and over about the damage it can do, it just feels a bit excessive.

 

'FireKnife'

[hotelkilo]

anymore posters for the queue marked 'selfish morons only' ?

[renegadecow]

So it filters the laser? I was interested and Googled "Laser Film" but turned up nothing of use - any ideas?

 

Cheers!

It's broad spectrum so will block out any color laser.

 

 

 

Kidding. Actual protective film below:

http://www.edmundoptics.com/optics/laser-optics/laser-windows/laser-gard-pvc-film/1336

[Inari]

anymore posters for the queue marked 'selfish morons only' ?

I don't see how you could get any more selfish than wanting everyone to stop using something because you don't like it just because it has the potential to do harm.

[FireKnife]

I don't see how you could get any more selfish than wanting everyone to stop using something because you don't like it just because it has the potential to do harm.

 

And ping watch that hammer strike that nail clean on the head.

 

Perhaps said user has never played with decent players that just use RIFs and their attachments in a safe and useable manner.

 

'FireKnife'

[Smoke]

anymore posters for the queue marked 'selfish morons only' ?

 

Yes, me.

 

I'm 100% in agreement with Inari. If YOU have an issue, discuss it with whoever runs your site.

 

Promoting a blanket ban due to your own views is ridiculous. In fact I seem to see a lot of this going around at the moment.

 

Airsoft can be played many different ways. It's about time people got to grips with this fact.

 

Please don't tell me what I should, and shouldn't be able to do - and with what equipment. The site I attend has rules. I abide by them. Other sites have different rules, I either abide by them, or do not give them my custom.

 

I don't use a laser as I have no need for one, but I don't have an issue with anyone else using them. If someone is being an idiot, that's what site staff are there for.

[Aitch]

Whilst the market is flooded with cheap chinese sh*t there's no way to tell what is safe, someone will get injured eventually as is inevitable the 6 figure payout will no doubt up insurance costs, not to mention if they know who did it, that could mean a civil action, and you <insert laser user name here> foots the bill.*

 

Also I'd like to see a site insurance policy that specifically states that laser usage is fine, seeing most if  not all lasers should state not to point at people? they pose a health risk.

 

*Remember it's "site" insurance, not everyone on site insurance,

[FTZ-WildeCard]

 

Yes, me.

 

I'm 100% in agreement with Inari. If YOU have an issue, discuss it with whoever runs your site.

 

Promoting a blanket ban due to your own views is ridiculous. In fact I seem to see a lot of this going around at the moment.

 

Airsoft can be played many different ways. It's about time people got to grips with this fact.

 

Please don't tell me what I should, and shouldn't be able to do - and with what equipment. The site I attend has rules. I abide by them. Other sites have different rules, I either abide by them, or do not give them my custom.

 

I don't use a laser as I have no need for one, but I don't have an issue with anyone else using them. If someone is being an idiot, that's what site staff are there for.

 

Thank you.

 

 

anymore posters for the queue marked 'selfish morons only' ?

 

 

You've taken a bit of a sensationalist stance, which is sort of like Daily Mail. 

[hwagan]

You've taken a bit of a sensationalist stance, which is sort of like Daily Mail. 

 

 

Well according to the Daily Mail, lasers will give you cancer.

[Wild_XIII]

In before...

 

 

On topic, I cool with lasers being used as a pointer. For instance, somebody is hiding behind a tree, there are many trees in woodland and shouting "He's behind a tree" isn't much help. A laser lets you point at the tree/crate/bush the opfor is hiding in. No need to point it on the person, just in the general area so my team mates know roughly where the enemy is.

 

Running around with it on constantly using it to aim doesn't sit well with me because the damn thing will be going everywhere as your moving.

[PureSilver]

So it filters the laser? I was interested and Googled "Laser Film" but turned up nothing of use - any ideas?

 

Cheers!

 

As renegadecow has helpfully linked below, it does something along those lines. There are two distinct types - reflective, and absorbent - which do to the laser light pretty much exactly what their names imply. If you Google 'laser safety goggles' and 'laser safety film' you'll start turning up examples. My immediate query relates to whether or not you can get 'broad spectrum' film that filters all of the harmful spectra, since when I've used them they're usually blocking out one particular type of laser light by wavelength. My guess is that you'll need to work out what wavelengths people's lasers will be operating on, and then choose the correct film/lense (helpfully, a common type of laser lense is polycarbonate, so it's BB resistant too) to suit you.

 

And, my pleasure!

 

[...] let alone ruin the excellent antifog abilities of my chosen eyepro or their clarity just bc some silly little willy waving moron wants to show us his new 'cool' (but essentially useless FOR AIRSOFT) toy. [...]  anyone who thinks that visible lasers should be allowed where other people are using telescopic sights OR lasers that are over the specific 'safe levels' that are already in place, OR that ir lasers should be open to use by everyone.. is a selfish fukwit imo [...] once more for the ppl at the back, lasers are essentially useless for airsoft imo

 

Lasers may be useless for you in airsoft, but I happen to find mine pretty handy for fast target acquisition. Fortunately, everyone in the firearms industry agrees with you that visible lasers are useless, which is why nobody (e.g. SureFire or Streamlight) makes them and why CrimsonTrace went out of business - oh, no, wait, that's not right at all..

 

as for the damage to your eye caused by exposure to lasers, its a bit like the damage that loud noises cause your hearing during your lifetime. perhaps each actual incident will be mostly unimportant but over time and repeated exposure damage will surely be done. and furthermore the victim has no idea how much damage has been done bc their experience of vision is much the same after the exposure as before, only a detailed study of your retina can determine the damage caused, or OVER TIME u may notice degradation in your eyesight.

 

i already have a condition that means my eyesight is degrading irreparably over time, i dont want to add to that in any way. YMMV

 

So what you're saying is, it's analogous to the damage caused to your hearing by, say, flash-bangs and BFGs, in that damage is compound, often unnoticeable at first, and detectable only by careful study? So why aren't you ordering that we ban those, too? I would really hate to conclude that this is because you have an eye condition, but not a hearing condition. 

 

anymore posters for the queue marked 'selfish morons only' ?

 

No - we're stuck behind some fool who can't decide whether he best belongs in the 'outrageously unwarranted self-importance' queue or the 'relentless ill-founded scaremongering' one.

 

Whilst the market is flooded with cheap chinese sh*t there's no way to tell what is safe, someone will get injured eventually as is inevitable the 6 figure payout will no doubt up insurance costs, not to mention if they know who did it, that could mean a civil action, and you <insert laser user name here> foots the bill.*

 

As before, if you are concerned, wear laser protection. It's not expensive and it isn't difficult. The site's insurance liability is the concern of the site owner alone; if s/he feels that his or her policy doesn't appropriately cover lasers, it's up to them to decide what steps to take, as evidently has the local of our paranoid friend here. If you are concerned that you might get sued for damaging someone's eyes with a cheap Chinese laser, why don't you refrain from buying or using cheap Chinese lasers? When you say that lasers are inevitably going to lead to a six-figure compensation award, are you basing this on anything other than 'it stands to reason' or 'I reckon'? Lasers are dangerous if not handled with care, a description that applies also to 'guns that look like firearms' and 'shooting small plastic pellets at each other at warp speed'. I like the others' suggestions of 'not being a complete d*** about it', a sentiment that should apply not just to playing with and the marshalling of but also the discussing of lasers.

[FireKnife]

 

Well according to the Daily Mail, lasers will give you cancer.

 

And can blow up the Moon while China uses them to slice Pandas in half for their nourishing innards.

 

Also I think this place might be a bit more to your liking hotelkilo: www.zeroin.co.uk

 

Also you might want to look at the posts of members called addaqgg and IBMedic, they sound a bit similar to yours and look what has happened to them.

 

'FireKnife'

[Aitch]

Who's being a d*ck? you're not supposed to willy nilly point lasers at people, this is not life or death tactical scenarios, mine is one side of the debate just the side you disagree with, now pick your f*cking dummy up and try being reasonable instead of calling folk d*cks.

[PureSilver]

Who's being a d*ck? you're not supposed to willy nilly point lasers at people, this is not life or death tactical scenarios, mine is one side of the debate just the side you disagree with, now pick your f*cking dummy up and try being reasonable instead of calling folk d*cks.

 

Did you actually read anything that I actually wrote other than the last line? 

 

I didn't think so. I can tell this because;

• I didn't call you (or, in a marvellous act of self-restraint, hotelkilo) a d***. I told hotelkilo that he was being a c**k and asked him to stop.
• I didn't say that you were supposed to, or that I do, or that anyone should point lasers at people willy-nilly.
• I didn't say that we were in a life-or-death tactical scenario.
• Why would I need another dummy when I'm already arguing with one?

Try READING this for a change:

• Ad hominem arguments don't count. Swearing like it's going out of fashiong and calling people "silly little willy-waving morons" (hotelkilo) and telling them to "pick [their] f***ing dummy up" doesn't make you sound impressive or intelligent - if you don't agree, why don't you see your reaction to what you thought was me calling you a d***? Rather, it makes you sound like a c**k, so if anyone has made either of you look like a d***, it's yourselves.
• I agree that there is very real potential for injury and legal difficulty surrounding the use of lasers in airsoft.
• I disagree that the solution to this potential problem is a blanket ban on the use of lasers in airsoft. Such a solution doesn't address the complexity of the situation - such as the greatly differing potential for damage of the various different types of laser, the various types of player and game, and the fact that individuals and sites are already completely capable of protecting themselves as they see fit.

If you'd like to argue (like hotelkilo is) that a blanket ban (removing the ability of everyone to use lasers, even <0.5mW red ones) is a better solution than you telling a marshall that someone's shining their laser around in an unsuitable fashion, or worst-case putting some foil on your eye-pro, well, I look forward to hearing it.

[FTZ-WildeCard]

 

Well according to the Daily Mail, lasers will give you cancer.

 

"HAVE AIRSOFT LASERS GIVEN BRITAIN'S FARMERS SWINE FLU?"

 

For more fun try: Daily Mail-o-matic

 

I certainly don't agree with lasers being left on all the time - now THAT is silly. As Wild said, when you're running around how can you possibly control where the laser is pointed? Things like this should be looked at with common sense. The "no blind firing" rule which is staple across perhaps every site in the UK is a good, common sense approach to how we use our RIFs - I don't think it is far-fetched that the same thinking should be applied to laser use as well. 

[Smoke]

Meh, it's just the latest thing.

 

Years ago it was >1j is deadly, then we had the Moscart fiasco, then "500fps bolties will see you in jail", under 18's will never play airsoft again..... The list goes on.

 

After this, it'll be something else.

 

I can see Aitch's point regarding insurance - But this was the same argument put forward during the 500fps debate, and they're still allowed at most sites (thankfully).

[bankz5152]

My Sig Sauer STL900L weapons light (red laser) reaches 500m without breaking a sweat, my jaw dropped. Measured on Google maps...

 

Lasers are not to be *fruitcage*ed with, red, green or whatever.

 

Ive got one aswell but thats incredable, never knew it was so powerful!

 

I bought the above device mainly for the powerful yet compact flashlight/high strobe function. The laser was just a plus but I do use it for -

 

Marking out targets - Much easier than pointing and no one seeing what your looking at..

Annoying people in cover - Tends to stop people moving, sticks em down meaning others can move through without wasting rounds.

[hotelkilo]

if you have read (and judging your responses you havent actually read and understood the points that i have made) everything i have posted you will quite clearly see that i am not advocating a blanket ban on ALL lasers at ALL airsoft sites

 

if you want to use a laser then all the reasons (excuses) for having/wanting/needing a laser have been addressed in this thread i believe, ie I WANT IT, I NEED IT, ITS TOO COOL WAH WAH is willy waving. ignoring actual science because you are trying to justify the use of your newest favorite toy and everyone elses safety be damned is not cool imo

 

i suspect that anyone supporting the use of high powered/ ir lasers in this thread actually owns such a device and their personal desire to use it in games overrides the chance that they may injure someone else, please if u are going to willy wave dont do at the expense of my eyesight, m'kay  -- its these people who IMO are selfish morons because i have pointed in this case the particular standard at which i judge people to be either selfish or moronic. if u do not like 'hotelkilo' thinking you are a moron then read what he actually types and dont reply with irrelevant nonesense about how cool your particular selfish set up is or how great a player it makes you.

 

straw man and ad hominem attacks aside, it is MY OPINION that laser safety in airsoft is slightly lacking and could do with a good looking at, thats about it ladies sorry if its not as dramatic as some might wish/need it to be.

 

and i am lucky enough to play at a site where the owners have made a decision based on science and evidence rather than emotion or greed, no complaints from me

[Shardik]

Lasers shmasers.

 

I can understand people's issues on them, with the whole blinding thing. But the way I see it is that airsoft, in itself - is a dangerous sport to begin with. I look at a standard AEG, not to mention a DMR/Boltie to be far more of a danger than a laser. other possible risks are falling off a ridge, slipping and braking a leg, tripping and being impaled on a stick.

 

In the grand scheme of things I personally can't help but shrug my shoulders at the whole laser debate.

 

Call me selfish if you may.

[Shardik]

And stop saying 'willy waving' makes your points impossible to take seriously.

[hotelkilo]

to whoever 'needs' a laser to point out stuff to their team, LEARN TO COMMUNICATE MORE EFFECTIVELY

 

to whoever 'needs' a laser to show them where their gun is pointing, LEARN SOME MUSCLE MEMORY, lasers actually slow u down which is why speedshoot competitors dont use them

 

to whoever 'wants' a laser cos 'the firearms industry sell them so they must make you a better shot' TRY NOT TO BE SO NAIVE EH ?

[Swerve]

Airsoft safety with regards to normal physical injuries are largely an accepted risk, mainly due the fact they that are 99.9% recoverable from (providing proper eye prot etc is used)

 

So arguing that potential injuries from lasers are also an acceptable risk, is at best a straw man, at worst disengenious

 

Damage to sight or hearing is rarely something you can recover from, and can be genuinely life changing.

 

We all have a duty of care, safety on site is everybodies concern, not just the site owner.

 

I have used lasers in the past, they are fun things.  I would like to know more about them with regards to safety, from an objective, scientific viewpoint

 

For example:

Exactly how dangerous are the common AND uncommon types of laser that people could possibly field?

As magnified optics are common, would a laser shone through one make that laser more dangerous?

Should we, as a community, push for more clarity on laser use during site safety briefings?

 

I'd like to hear more from people who have facts or people involved in site ownership and safety management

 

We can all shout BAN or NO BAN until the cows come home, it wont help either way.

 

Me, I'm on the fence until somebody knocks me off it with a fact hammer

[hotelkilo]

i agree entirely

[Shardik]

Edit: Meh.

[DWZippy]

I agree pretty much entirely with Swerve. Airsoft is a dangerous sport but that doesn't mean I welcome more danger - I'm hesistant to take up the position HotelKilo has here, but I genuinely would like to know more about the safety issues of lasers. 

 

Sadly, HotelKilo has turned it all into a bit of a joke by accusing both sides of the discussion of being "willy wavers" and discussing himself in the third person..