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double_a

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As the site organisers would be the ones being insured, the third party cover means that any claim made against the owners would be covered by the insurance company.

 

Say for instance a marshall test killed a player but took a tooth out.  This would be grounds for a viable claim on such insurance.  No mention of passersby at all.

 

 

Reference from: http://www.parkinsurance.co.uk/Airsoft_Insurance.aspx

 

 

I think a bit of brushing up on legal terms is needed before throwing more "LOL"s around....

If a employee shoots out a players tooth at most it would come under Employers Liability Insurance. 

 

If I shoot a stray dog walker then I am covered and so are the site with their Public Liability Insurance, that's what its for!

 

lol @ Phubar again :)   

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If a employee shoots out a players tooth at most it would come under Employers Liability Insurance.

 

If I shoot a stray dog walker then I am covered and so are the site with their Public Liability Insurance, that's what its for!

 

lol @ Phubar again :)

In insurance talk the person who takes out the insurance is called the policy holder . Anyone who wishes to claim off the policy holder is designated as the third party .

To simplify . The first party is the insurance company . The second party is whoever signs a contract with the first party . The third party is anyone who wishes or try's to claim damages etc off this policy / agreement .

Most public liability policy's for company's / businesses automatically includes an employees liability cover in them . Simples

Also there have been claims made for injurys incured at paintball and Airsoft sites off the site owners public liability policies . The last being when someone had a bfg thrown at their head . I shall not name the site but those of you in the know will be aware of who it was .

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I'm the same, I'd rather get shot than have someone shout 'bang' at me. Anyone can jump round a corner and shout bang, not everyone can jump round a corner and shoot and hit anyone there straight away. Likewise I have seen it abused by the likes of distances being stretched and people using it because 'all they could see was the head and didn't want to shoot' as good examples.

 

I want to see them hit me, rather than voice eliminate me. I've seen guys with empty mags try to kill me, and I was got "bang-killed" by a guy with a sniper rifle at 2 feet, went a bit like this: 

 

"Bang, You going to take it?" 

"Nah, I don't play the bang rule. Just shoot me." 

"I can't, it's inside my MED" 

"Ah." - I promptly shot him. My point for bang kills is it's not always so easy to take someone out. If I get the drop on someone entirely, I'll shoot them somewhere like the boot or a backpack so it doesn't hurt, but I don't want to leave any room for *fruitcage* about. 

 

I won't be a *rickroll* about it, I'm going to tell someone I won't take a bang rule, so they can shoot me, but most of the time I see the bang rule come into play is when they know there is a problem with their gun, empty mags, gassed out, inside MED... 

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In insurance talk the person who takes out the insurance is called the policy holder . Anyone who wishes to claim off the policy holder is designated as the third party .

To simplify . The first party is the insurance company . The second party is whoever signs a contract with the first party . The third party is anyone who wishes or try's to claim damages etc off this policy / agreement .

Most public liability policy's for company's / businesses automatically includes an employees liability cover in them . Simples

Also there have been claims made for injurys incured at paintball and Airsoft sites off the site owners public liability policies . The last being when someone had a bfg thrown at their head . I shall not name the site but those of you in the know will be aware of who it was .

For any ubar simples out there please checkout http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/209062-anyone-playing-airsoft-ever-claimed-on-a-sites-public-liability-insurance/

 

But For the simple simples please go strait to http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29195

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There is a difference between re-enactment and airsoft though, re-enactors are a part of a signed up / paid up group where as airsofters, even when a member of a site, are still the paying customer just the same as if you get hurt in paintball, going horse riding or take a slip, trip or fall in Tesco.

 

That said thats only how I would logically look at it, an insurance company may use the same logic as yourself and the only way to know for sure would be to have a gander at a site insurance policy to see who is covered under what circumstances.

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That said thats only how I would logically look at it, an insurance company may use the same logic as yourself and the only way to know for sure would be to have a gander at a site insurance policy to see who is covered under what circumstances.

 

Insurance Companies work on greed not logic!

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There is a difference between re-enactment and airsoft though, re-enactors are a part of a signed up / paid up group where as airsofters, even when a member of a site, are still the paying customer just the same as if you get hurt in paintball, going horse riding or take a slip, trip or fall in Tesco.

 

You don't sign a disclaimer every time you goto Tesco's!

 

Just to go off topic again I believe its morally wrong to make a profit from insurance!  

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I want to see them hit me, rather than voice eliminate me. I've seen guys with empty mags try to kill me, and I was got "bang-killed" by a guy with a sniper rifle at 2 feet, went a bit like this: 

 

"Bang, You going to take it?" 

"Nah, I don't play the bang rule. Just shoot me." 

"I can't, it's inside my MED" 

"Ah." - I promptly shot him. My point for bang kills is it's not always so easy to take someone out. If I get the drop on someone entirely, I'll shoot them somewhere like the boot or a backpack so it doesn't hurt, but I don't want to leave any room for *fruitcage* about. 

 

I won't be a *rickroll* about it, I'm going to tell someone I won't take a bang rule, so they can shoot me, but most of the time I see the bang rule come into play is when they know there is a problem with their gun, empty mags, gassed out, inside MED... 

That's why I would rather be shot point blank or not,dead mans click is a pain but it does happen more times then you think!

Well at least when I am playing  :clown:

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As well as it works at your local site because you have a good bunch of regulars there, I'd still rather there was an MED and that carrying a non MED backup was mandatory.

 

 

Cuts down on the potential damage if you get a *rickroller* on site that day if you get me? :)

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Played a site with a mandatory 10ft bang rule at the weekend, and a 'bang kills to an enclosed space kills everyone inside' *fruitcage* silly IMO. Myself and two others defending a hut, guy pops round the door, screams bang, we all call it. He then proceeds to gleefully tell us he only had two rounds in his pistol mag, and had ditched his primary. So max, he'd have taken two out, likely none and got lit up by us.

 

I'll offer a bang/surrender if I have the complete drop on someone, but unless they almost instantly call it, or move before calling, then they're getting one in the chest, or on a dump pouch if I'm behind them. However, if I'm not 100% I'm going to have the complete upper hand, they usually get that anyway - I'd rather take someone as soon as a good shot presents itself out than sneak that extra five feet to get really close :)

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Personally I just play to the sites rules. If they say 'bang' I bang (careful now).

 

But in some cases, it can be useful to not so much have a bang rule but more have a sensibility rule. In the case of a bolt action user running 400fps+ within 5m of a target I would say that the target should just admit it and take it.

 

Hell if someone has managed to get that close to me and did so well enough to catch me out I am happy to take it, but then I am an honest player and can take the fact that others can beat me, in the same way I could have beaten them to it. It is just a game at the end of the day and win or lose it doesn't matter, when you have no prize for winning it should be about having fun and not this silly determination some have to be top dog all the time.

 

Sadly that seems to be getting less and less in the field now :(.

 

'FireKnife'

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Hell, I've called hit when I thought I've been hit. It was pointed out to me later, that it was just a small rock that a friend had thrown at me, to get my attention. I've always seen airsoft as a gentleman's game. I would rather give the benefit of the doubt, than be a player who was all about winning. I like to win, but not at the cost of being a gentleman.

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I like to win, but not at the cost of being a gentleman.

 

See this is the thing so many people lack when they want to win. Yes by all means play with the idea of succeding but never ever at the expense of fair play or someone elses enjoyment.

 

'FireKnife'

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For a bang kill to be valid you need to be in a position to actually shoot the person. A sniper cannot fire within his MED, and so should never have offered the bang kill - he cannot shoot him, so how can he offer a surrender. He should have stayed quiet until the player was outside of his MED so that he could actually fire, or drawn a secondary and offered the bang (which if was not accepted, he could then actually take the shot).

 

This is what I don't understand - people weaponise the bang kill, when all it has ever been is a courtesy where you do not want to shoot someone close range. As I have said, I will personally offer it...but if the first move you make isn't a loud and resounding "HIT!" with a hand in the air, there'll be a BB coming downrange at you. So for the most part I will offer them, but I'll only take them if the site insists, if it will cause too many arguments otherwise, or if I feel they've gotten the drop on me. I don't want to shoot people that close, but I don't mind it being done to me.

 

I have to admit that I just plain don't think most people will get the shot off

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For a bang kill to be valid you need to be in a position to actually shoot the person. A sniper cannot fire within his MED, and so should never have offered the bang kill - he cannot shoot him, so how can he offer a surrender. He should have stayed quiet until the player was outside of his MED so that he could actually fire, or drawn a secondary and offered the bang (which if was not accepted, he could then actually take the shot).

 

Situation:

 

Someone firing a 500fps rifle, in full ghillie has a player walk past him that is on the opposite team, oblivious to him. He gets into a firing position, now said player is in such a way that if he backs up the player in the ghillie is going to get stood on. So does he not point this out and offer the person a chance to take the hit or 'bang' them? Or does he move and risk getting lit up? Finally he could just call himself hit but then that feels like he is being penalised for being a decent player and taking his time to get into position.

 

And don't say it doesn't happen, has happened to me at least 3 times in the last three years and on all three ocassions I was offered the hit and took it, saves issues cropping up in my mind. :P

 

I often go by the same take a hit if it is offered at a range I feel a hit can be made. If someone gets within 3m of me I will take it if such a thing is offered. As for me, well I run a light, close up loadout so all I have to do is produce my rubber knife and tag them with that, but then I have thought about these situations, many people have not I find.

 

'FireKnife'

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If I was in a sniper's MED and he thoroughly had the drop on me and offered me a bang kill, I'd take it. The way I figure it, if I've wandered to within yards of a sniper and he's got his sights on me, in real life I'd be a dead man without the sniper having to draw his sidearm. 

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If I was in a sniper's MED and he thoroughly had the drop on me and offered me a bang kill, I'd take it. The way I figure it, if I've wandered to within yards of a sniper and he's got his sights on me, in real life I'd be a dead man without the sniper having to draw his sidearm. 

 

Same way I view it if it comes to discussion, if it was a real situation (one of the few times I use real situations) would I be able to react or not, often in the case of high FPS guns under MED and that close I would just take it.

 

'FireKnife'

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I still think the mandatory secondary is a good idea - what if I put forward a (admittedly less realistic) scenario whereby we have a sniper who rushes positions just to get inside MED and get his auto-kill?

 

It'd be daft for a normal rifleman to do that, why would this be a good thing now because the guy is running a rifle too hot for close combat?

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Sorry, but I have to call BS. Unless you are in a position to actually take the shot, you can't actually get the kill, so no bang. Your gun needs to be functioning (gas, battery, cocked etc), you need BB's and you need to be aiming. If I have my gun slung, and shout BANG it's tough luck on my part - it's not a kill, because no shot could be fired. If a sniper has you within his sights inside his MED, then it is up to him to figure out how to play it - he can draw a secondary, move, or wait. He cannot shoot, as per the rules of the game.

 

Even if they thoroughly have the drop on you, and you're in their sights...we play by a set of rules, and they cannot take the shot. In real terms, think of it as their rifle being jammed/out of ammo, or just plain broken - they can have you in their sights all they want...but they cannot pull that trigger. Unless of course they resort to a secondary, in which case they can pull the trigger all they want. 

 

@FireKnife: In that situation a knife kill could be performed - the sniper is close enough to touch the enemy (at least he should be if at risk of being stood on), and so could legitimately call knife kill. Knife kills are a completely different kettle of fish; they cannot be performed at range, and do not require a trigger pull thus are not subject to the usual complaints of the bang kill. In other situations where the enemy is at range but inside their MED, that is why they should have a secondary...at least in my opinion.

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