Bullet shaped bb's

[FTZ-WildeCard]

We can and do ajust for parabloic paths as they are  generally very consistent,but SIDEWAYS drift is what we are trying to reduce! lol

 

BTW its smaller because I was going to shout it at you because your A:#x#x#x#xx#  B:#x#x#x#xx#x#x#x#

 

 

What is that last bit even about??

 

I really go to do myself a favour and stop conversing with you. 

[Swerve]

Are you serious?!

 

 

 

I'm not serious.... but I'm not sure about him

[sir naggedalot]

you all seem to forget how rough 3D printed things are.

edit: ninja'd...

 

At the moment for the gen pub.Some are as smooth as a .............

 

Or how about the ones that can print with a few difrent media's at the same time??

 

Could injection molding give us a metal core with a plastic shell for instance?

 

How about a bb that looks like a gobstoppers layers.

 

Maybe dense media in the middle and soft on the outside,sorta reminding me of some on this forum...

 

 

 

I'm sorry, spell it out - what are you trying to say?

 

Your right we need fin's or grooves to impart spin. Im saying that post was almost as Logical as swerves posts.

 

Its was a compliment

 

You got to be sad anough to read the PLI bit where Fire Knife gives us his logical paranoia about how we are .....

 Anyone who has diffrent point of view to ?????? must be the same person as there cant be more then one of them in the world!

 

Lessons from the past tell us that all we should expect from the future is the unexpected. 

 

I knew I loved you for A: #x#x#xx#x#x#x B:#x#x#x#x#x#x

 

Its worth the wait outside your window on those cold nights....

 

What is that last bit even about??

 

I really go to do myself a favour and stop conversing with you. 

 

Promise me! Your go to do it right! lol I dont want to lower myself to the grammer police tide line,but watch out for them,proper a1+ Felchers

 

I'm not serious.... but I'm not sure about him

 

Im as serious about you as I am about Willy #x#ing  !

 

Thats Feckin serious! lol

[sir naggedalot]

3D printing BBs is fine for prototyping, but never going to happen for production. BBs (even weird, complex BBs) are simple, one-piece solid forms. They're pretty much the definition of 'injection moulded'. 3D printing is expensive, time-consuming, and has nowhere near the fine-detail needed to produce finished BBs. If you're going to 3D print them and then polish them to get the requisite finish, why not just mould them in the first place and save enormous sums of money?

 

Its never going to happen..? Never say never.....

 

How about multicored bb's,could injection moulding form these?

 

Are you saying that 3d Printers will only ever be for prototyping with regards to bb's ?

 

Its already being used for Prodction.

 

How long you worked in injection moulding ?

 

BB polishing has more to do with removing the flashing around the seam or sprue.

Hopfuly 3d printing soon will do  away with these.

 

Remeber how we went from low to high res printing in how long? Remeber how the costs have declined?

[FTZ-WildeCard]

I'm not serious.... but I'm not sure about him

 

Some friendly advice; I just stuck him on the ignore list - will save you a lot of hassle in the long run.  

 

---

 

Back on topic - how about turning this on its head slightly; we've established that there would need to be a lot of changes to an airsoft system to enable different shaped BBs..

 

What if we instead moved to look at barrel and hop units instead? What if we used  two nubs to impart the longitudinal spin talked about in this thread? Just thinking about how a rugby ball is thrown and the hands are used to provide the stabilising spin. I realise that of course, a rugby ball is not the same shape as a BB -- infact, is there any one more qualified in physics to suggest that even if we could use hop rubbers in this way, would it provide any benefit to the common spherical BB? 

 

I'm guessing it would just tumble upon leaving the barrel and perhaps be a bit useless.

[sir naggedalot]

Good guess,very very useless! NO wait,you could use it to shoot around corners!

[PureSilver]

Its never going to happen..? Never say never.....

 

How about multicored bb's,could injection moulding form these?

 

Are you saying that 3d Printers will only ever be for prototyping with regards to bb's ?

 

Its already being used for Prodction.

 

How long you worked in injection moulding ?

 

BB polishing has more to do with removing the flashing around the seam or sprue.

Hopfuly 3d printing soon will do  away with these.

 

Remeber how we went from low to high res printing in how long? Remeber how the costs have declined?

 

OK, so never say never, but it's never going to happen.

 

Never. 

 

They're just too simple and easy to make via injection, although admittedly I have no idea what a multi-core BB is (what is a multi-core BB? BBs aren't like bowling balls you want to impart off-axis spin to, surely you want them to have perfect central-point symmetry in weight and density?) so maybe I'm just not in the know. I know 3D printers are doing certain very specialised sorts of production, but there is a reason it's called 'rapid prototyping'. If you're going to make a lot of something (and if you're making BBs, you're making a lot of them), usually 3D printing isn't the most efficient or effective way to do it (at least in my very limited experience in aerospace - I've never worked in injection moulding but have worked with various forms of RP).

 

Yes, the resolution is getting better and more cost-effective, but even if it gets a lot better I still don't see why you would mass produce BBs via 3D printing. It's always going to take longer to print something one layer at a time than it is to squirt plastic into a mould, and that's going to get worse, not better, as the fineness of the layers improves, because there will be more layers.

[sir naggedalot]

OK, so never say never, but it's never going to happen.

 

Never. 

 

They're just too simple and easy to make via injection, although admittedly I have no idea what a multi-core BB is (what is a multi-core BB? BBs aren't like bowling balls you want to impart off-axis spin to, surely you want them to have perfect central-point symmetry in weight and density?) so maybe I'm just not in the know. I know 3D printers are doing certain very specialised sorts of production, but there is a reason it's called 'rapid prototyping'. If you're going to make a lot of something (and if you're making BBs, you're making a lot of them), usually 3D printing isn't the most efficient or effective way to do it (at least in my very limited experience in aerospace - I've never worked in injection moulding but have worked with various forms of RP).

 

Yes, the resolution is getting better and more cost-effective, but even if it gets a lot better I still don't see why you would mass produce BBs via 3D printing. It's always going to take longer to print something one layer at a time than it is to squirt plastic into a mould, and that's going to get worse, not better, as the fineness of the layers improves, because there will be more layers.

 

 

Lessons from the past tell us that all we should expect from the future is the unexpected. 

 

Im going to bite my tounge.

[hwagan]

Im going to bite my tounge.

 

 

HUZZAH

[sir naggedalot]

I wonder what would happen if we added rifling to those pellet bbs, like a rifled slug....

Probably too expensive to produce....

 

 

I like the look of this as I know is its tried and tested in shotguns, how about making the sidefins aerofoil shaped?

 

Less drag and with a bit of fibonacci spiral I belive we (us royal airsofters) could screw the others over.

 

Please excuse me if u did get the pun.lol

[PureSilver]

Why use a rifled slug instead of a rifled barrel? I know why they do it in shotguns - those have to be smoothbore because shot would ruin ordinary rifling, but airsoft guns don't have that limitation. If you're going to ditch hop-up, you might as well buy an expensive rifled barrel and have simple, cheap diabolo-shaped ammunition (like an air-rifle), rather than stick with a cheap smoothbore barrel and have to have complex and expensive rifled slugs, surely?

[Im going space]

anyone got a ~TK Twist and willing to try?

[renegadecow]

Tanio Koba barrels don't impart spin on the bb. They still use a hop up and the grooves are meant to make an air cushion around the bb so the predicted path while inside the barrel is made less random.

 

edit:

Gonna throw something different here. Maybe the answer is bigger bbs i.e. 8mm. Think about it, you can cram more mass in it and even if you fire it at higher velocities it's not as dangerous as a 6mm from the increased surface area like being jabbed by a pencil eraser end first opposed to pointy end. Larger surface area means more contact with the hop rubber and also means increased Bernoulli effect. Spherical design means it's still efficient with conventional hop up and magazine designs, just bigger.

[sir naggedalot]

Why use a rifled slug instead of a rifled barrel? I know why they do it in shotguns - those have to be smoothbore because shot would ruin ordinary rifling, but airsoft guns don't have that limitation. If you're going to ditch hop-up, you might as well buy an expensive rifled barrel and have simple, cheap diabolo-shaped ammunition (like an air-rifle), rather than stick with a cheap smoothbore barrel and have to have complex and expensive rifled slugs, surely?

 

If we try we learn,if we try and fail we still learn.If we dont try we learn nothing.

Lets say a slug turns up thats Improvment,thast a good thing right/

 

 

Then its down to others if they wish to shell out for it.

 

Like I said before i love little round balls, Im more then happy with them!

 

But sadly there are some right gerdo's out there that will go for this,mostly snipers as they use very little ammo! Well alot less anyway.

[sir naggedalot]

Tanio Koba barrels don't impart spin on the bb. They still use a hop up and the grooves are meant to make an air cushion around the bb so the predicted path while inside the barrel is made less random.

 

I like the air cusshion affect, a small dimple on the LP helps to lube the round with Air.

 

If you get the turbulent air to act as a streamer as it detaches from the trailing edge it could make a world of diffrence.We need to embrace drag and try to use him as our friend

 

the streamer affect   .. ..  . ; . ; . , .; . , . ;..........lol

 

If we are starting to talk of spinning in diffrent directions how about chokes at the end of barrels.

[renegadecow]

We need to embrace drag and try to use him as our friend

 

[Swerve]

 

Gonna throw something different here. Maybe the answer is bigger bbs i.e. 8mm. Think about it, you can cram more mass in it and even if you fire it at higher velocities it's not as dangerous as a 6mm from the increased surface area like being jabbed by a pencil eraser end first opposed to pointy end. Larger surface area means more contact with the hop rubber and also means increased Bernoulli effect. Spherical design means it's still efficient with conventional hop up and magazine designs, just bigger.

 

Yeah but like I said earlier in the thread, you have over double the volume in an 8mm bb compared to a 6mm.  That's an awful lot of space to fill with mass, and would suggest you would need really heavy bbs to get long, stable and accurate flight.  I don't think this is workable with sub 350fps guns, maybe an interesting idea for sub 500fps though

[renegadecow]

My Super Blackhawk does really well with .45g shooting at 2.5J which is right about there in the "interesting idea" range. I'd use even heavier rounds if they existed (excluding the steel ball bearings that I have that are coincidentally 8mm in diameter).

[Im going space]

Youd be surprised how well a stock marui 1911 dealt with 0.9g steel bbs (range only)

[Swerve]

My Super Blackhawk does really well with .45g shooting at 2.5J which is right about there in the "interesting idea" range. I'd use even heavier rounds if they existed (excluding the steel ball bearings that I have that are coincidentally 8mm in diameter).

 

.45g in 8mm is roughly equivalent to 0.20g in 6mm which I would say is the minimum for useful 8mm weights.  I've seen .65g or .64g 8mm bbs somewhere, which interested me.  One more thing about 8mm to make them interesting is that the ratio between volume and surface area on them would make gains from heavioer bbs pay off nicely

[kenxin]

Why use a rifled slug instead of a rifled barrel? I know why they do it in shotguns - those have to be smoothbore because shot would ruin ordinary rifling, but airsoft guns don't have that limitation. If you're going to ditch hop-up, you might as well buy an expensive rifled barrel and have simple, cheap diabolo-shaped ammunition (like an air-rifle), rather than stick with a cheap smoothbore barrel and have to have complex and expensive rifled slugs, surely?

As I understand it, even in airguns the pellets need to actually expand to engage the rifling and that requires a fair bit of pressure. I'm unsure if such amount of pressure would be skirmish-safe.

 

Thus rifled slugs came to mind, they come with the rifling.

[sir naggedalot]

As I understand it, even in airguns the pellets need to actually expand to engage the rifling and that requires a fair bit of pressure. I'm unsure if such amount of pressure would be skirmish-safe.

 

Thus rifled slugs came to mind, they come with the rifling.

 

If you have a pellet that's got a very thin skirt,say 8mils (0.2mm) and made from poly prop you could use the rifling to create grooves that would hopefully enhance the flight characteristics.Very very little pressure could be used.Lets say the skirt was as thin as a plastic bag but i think tin foil might be better,if only we could combine the two seamlessly.....

 

When I was very young I used to shoot pieces of Sweet (Chewits)from a HW80 Airrifle at a friend.

Surprisingly accurate and they used to engage the rifling very well! 

[Swerve]

we used to rip off single caps from those ribbons and scrunch 'em into a wee ball with some tin foil and shoot 'em at page 3 girls on my mates bedroom wall, they used to explode a tiny bit and mark the paper

 

...until his mum caught us and went into one and smashed his air rifle on the concrete outside

 

probably for the best

[wolfgeorge]

Well I happen to have an Asahi M40, here's some photo's of it's barrel and "Blade Bullets".

The fins are very small and the "bullet" isn't round at the front section front!

 

 

The barrel has strait rifles and it's called Magna barrel, it's a 10mm OD.

 

 

Wolf

[renegadecow]

Strangely enough, the most accurate pellets I used to use for precision 10m .177cal air rifle were wadcutters and the same held true for my .22cal and from my understanding, .22LR as well. How fast does the Asahi shoot and relative weights of the rounds?