Kriss drops KWA

[Rob15]

I wonder what the legal situation is with regards to warranties. Technically KWA (and by default) Kriss entered into a legally binding contract with each purchaser.

I'd have thought it's a non-issue for KWA and Kriss Arms, KWA's factory is in Taiwan, not covered by the sort of legal consumer protection that we enjoy here in the UK and as far as I'm aware legally required warranties are very different in the US as well. Kriss Arms is based in Switzerland, not part of the EU so they avoid having to give a minimum warranty by law to anyone who has a KWA Kriss within any EU country.

 

That said KWA would potentially be insane not to sell original replacement parts to existing owners, the tooling will have been paid for so it's extra income and profits as long as they can sell enough parts to justify the cost of each production run.

[Inq Eisenhorn]

With regards to the notion that Kriss could want to produce this replica themselves, I for one applaud this idea, especially with respect to GBBR.

 

I've often dreamed of what it would be like if Real Steel companies in general started producing airsoft replicas, using 1:1 real steel parts, possibly even running the airsoft guns down parallel production lines, etc. I know, certain organisations would have a fit, as of course, airsoft guns could now (illogically) be converted to real guns...yadda yadda, but personally I think this would be an awesome development for airsoft.

 

In fact, I'm surprised this hasn't already happened. Imagine a company like KAC or Colt making 1:1 training rifles for law enforcement and military, how could they NOT make a -ton of money from that type of venture. Certainly cut down on training accidents I'm sure.

[thartwig]

Wasnt izmash supposed to be doing that? I have heard nothing of an AK from there since the initial news buzz...

And the thing about product support is if youre not going to have the parts that a customer is asking for in stock anytime soon, you really shouldnt tell them, "oh yeah just be patient and we'll have them soon" or anything of the sort. Especially when they just need that small bit to get their gun working again. But I understand if you tell a customer if youre not going to have a part in stock ever, it is bad PR, but id think the truth is better.

[DiscoBiscuit]

You can't call out things like that without knowing the circumstances. If something caused half of the US staff to leave then it must've been something pretty bad.

What are you talking about and what did you misunderstand?

[-wigs-]

Sure rs cOmpanies could make there own1:1 scale airsoft guns using real parts, would be sweet but it would also put our guns into the real firearm group and you would have to go about following strict laws to own them. If las gave us a rs 1:1 airsoft gun you could just swap out parts and have a real gun

[coolurjets]

From how I read it, all they're terminating is exclusivity.

 

 

As part of its strong commitment and support to the Milsim and professional training community, KRISS Arms will be seeking for new innovative partners in the airsoft industry to market its current and upcoming airsoft products

 

I'm guessing they just want more money by plastering their name on anyone who's willing to pay for it. That or they're in bed with Cybergun.

 

Ahh, here is a man with some brains. This is exactly how I read it too. The Kriss GBB and AEG arn't going anywhere.

[PreacherMan]

Ahh, here is a man with some brains. This is exactly how I read it too. The Kriss GBB and AEG arn't going anywhere.

Allizard, who worked for KWA and now works for Kriss, confirmed a few pages ago that they can't be made or sold by KWA anymore.

[xKingSizex]

Parts WILL be available.

[kenxin]

Parts WILL be available.

What about magazines?

[Interficium]

Ahh, here is a man with some brains. This is exactly how I read it too. The Kriss GBB and AEG arn't going anywhere.

 

 

 

KWA has already confirmed that they have to stop shipping the gun immediately, and that the AEG project has been terminated.

[Habakure]

Second, will mags still be produced for the Kriss by kwa, if so, will it be both mag types? Really appreciate the information given so far, but a little bit of clarification, as to what kwa can make and distribute, would be great.

[coolurjets]

KWA has already confirmed that they have to stop shipping the gun immediately, and that the AEG project has been terminated.

 

Ahhh the perils of not noticing multiple pages. My bad.

 

Still, prehaps now KWA can get on with the host of guns they've had on continuous back burner after the majority of manufacturing was dedicated to the Kriss. Like the Makarov, M1911a1 re-release and heaven forbid, they actually release the ERG's.

[Aitch]

I'd imagine KWA can sell their inventory made up to the date of cancellation as they were made under license, if  that's not the case they should give the moulds to a chinasoft company, they're no use to them now.

[NeoVeNoM]

I'd imagine KWA can sell their inventory made up to the date of cancellation as they were made under license, if  that's not the case they should give the moulds to a chinasoft company, they're no use to them now.

 

depends on who the owner of the moulds is. KWA or Kriss?

[icolater]

This the worst news ever, been so looking foward to the sphinx sdp. This is general practise for KWA, first there glocks get taken off the market because of a lack of  any licence then all the HK stuff was discontinued because of a licence dispute with HK, then kriss stuff goes because of the same , Feel really let down by KWA!!!!!

[Rob15]

This is general practise for KWA, first there glocks get taken off the market because of a lack of  any licence then all the HK stuff was discontinued because of a licence dispute with HK.

KWA are still able to make H&k replicas, but they can only be distributed by Umarex now where as KWA were previously allowed to distribute themselves as well. As for the Glocks there have been UK retailers receiving fresh stock of them fairly consistantly for the last few years under the KWA and ASG brands although most places do seem to have gone out of stock recently on them.

[uscmCorps]

Not possible the Super V design was patented already. KWA got license to use that patent that's it.

From what I recall Allizard telling me (long before he left KWA), the KWA's Vector's inner workings were entirely Yih Kai's own design and their own patents. I also recall him telling me the development of the GBB platform as well as all the tooling and molding was paid for by Yih Kai and is Yih Kai's property. Kriss Arms simply licensed the likeness (tradedress) and markings/copyrights to Yih Kai (Kriss Arms also gave KWA/Yih Kai feedback on the GBB during development). Therefore, while KWA/Yih Kai presently (and from the sounds of it indefinitely) can no longer continue manufacturing the Vector as a complete gun, certain components, especially internal (high wear) components which are their own design, are within the OEM's legal right to continue producing. It is unclear to me what Vector GBB external parts, if any, are legal for Yih Kai to continue producing. I'm sure KingSize, when able, will share such info.

 

Now, that said, being that the internal designs belong to Yih Kai, this also means Kriss Arms can't take the designs to someone else to continue producing the same GBB Vector by a different OEM. So should they choose to pursue more GBB Vectors in the future, they're going to have to go back to the drawing board to do it.

[Wingmann]

I don't quite understand the purpose of cooperating with a firm then taking the rights from them after just months after launch.

 

They still have it in the official page...

http://www.kriss-arms.com/airsoft/kwa-vector-smg

[uscmCorps]

It's not my place to comment on those particulars.

[TnL]

regardless of whatever the cause of the split, KWA must be pretty screwed over in this, all that R&D and tooling money down the drain? doesnt seem fair unless they somehow screwed kriss first, I'll be wary of kriss as a company for now, seems hostile takeover ish

[cazboab]

Parts WILL be available.

  

What about magazines?

If KWA were to make some sort of .45ATP in future that might solve the problem. Maybe even some form of ATP styled carbine/SMG too?

[uscmCorps]

A .45 ATP could be cool. But I'd rather see a Compact ATP be made available. I deal with a lot of LEOs that request that regularly for concealed carry training. That is obviously OT though.

[cazboab]

That would be cool too. Actually, why can't they do both in one pistol? They only have to feel like a certain Austrian pistol, so they can look however they need, what about a sort of modular system, start off with a glock 30 sized compact atp, then have a dovetail that pops out of the dust cover to fit a compensator that covers a longer barrel, and have clip on grip extensions that lock into the back strap? That way Kwa only need to make one pistol that can be adapted to the requirements of multiple users.

[NeoVeNoM]

From what I recall Allizard telling me (long before he left KWA), the KWA's Vector's inner workings were entirely Yih Kai's own design and their own patents. I also recall him telling me the development of the GBB platform as well as all the tooling and molding was paid for by Yih Kai and is Yih Kai's property. Kriss Arms simply licensed the likeness (tradedress) and markings/copyrights to Yih Kai (Kriss Arms also gave KWA/Yih Kai feedback on the GBB during development). Therefore, while KWA/Yih Kai presently (and from the sounds of it indefinitely) can no longer continue manufacturing the Vector as a complete gun, certain components, especially internal (high wear) components which are their own design, are within the OEM's legal right to continue producing. It is unclear to me what Vector GBB external parts, if any, are legal for Yih Kai to continue producing. I'm sure KingSize, when able, will share such info.

 

Now, that said, being that the internal designs belong to Yih Kai, this also means Kriss Arms can't take the designs to someone else to continue producing the same GBB Vector by a different OEM. So should they choose to pursue more GBB Vectors in the future, they're going to have to go back to the drawing board to do it.

 

So technically they could release a GBB with the same internals but different looks/users characteristics, as long as they don't interfere with the Kriss license?

kind of like the WE MP7 hybrid horror thingie.

[uscmCorps]

Purely hypothetically speaking ... yes.

 

[hypothetical] This also makes me wonder what a KWA ATSMG using KWA Vector-like internals would look like. Possibly horrible ... possibly awesome.  [/hypothetical]