Just BB guns to open in london

[FireKnife]

So what about the site they were running? The one where you could only use the bright orange guns they sell?

 

Either way sadly two-tones are legal to over 18s, any over 18 whether they are a complete moron or a decent player. JustBBGuns wont make that distinction, same as many other places.

 

'FireKnife'

[Baddbaz]

Had to laugh at rift a few weeks ago when a sniper turned up in a full gillie suit . Decent camo , boots etc and then ruined it all with a bright orange just bb l96 . No point if your gun can be seen from space !!

[FireKnife]

Had to laugh at rift a few weeks ago when a sniper turned up in a full gillie suit . Decent camo , boots etc and then ruined it all with a bright orange just bb l96 . No point if your gun can be seen from space !!

 

Camo tape?

 

Cover it with dense netting?

 

'FireKnife'

[Baddbaz]

He stuck out like dawn French in a famine video clip.

[thatguy404]

Didn't realise they were trading already Baz. Ill go check it out on Sunday.

[Baddbaz]

Bring your sunglasses to combat the orange dazzle ....

[Inq Eisenhorn]

I don't want to be a killjoy, but I'm kinda feeling that some of the comments about two tones just smack of elitism. Look, people aren't buying 2tones because they think it's cool, it's government driven, you know, the VCR-A. What you guys are forgetting when you ridicule the sniper and the noob in general, is that in spite of government legislation forcing them to look like tits, they still turn up and play the bloody game. Isn't that what airsoft is about? Getting out there, playing the game, any weather, any time, any kit!

 

We should be encouraging participation rather than making people feel unwelcome due to the kit they HAVE to use.

 

I also don't get the attitude towards Just-bb-guns?!?!? They provide a service, so they have inaccurate advertising, and so what, the don't sell Systema rifles, its 2013, the internet is there for everyone to use to educate themselves, research is for free......it's great if a store provides the customer with a spoon fed run down of what's what in airsoft, but that advice would be subjective as there is no such thing as the perfect gun.

 

As a hobby, airsoft hangs on the acceptance of the wider public, if enough people think it will win votes if they ban airsoft altogether it's game over, 2tone or not, for our toy guns. So rather than painting a clowns face on the new guy, let's support them, provide education and answers to those who seek advice, and drop the snobbery..... We need the 'noobs' way more than society needs us.

[Baddbaz]

Just BB guns got a bad press by selling market grade Airsoft guns to unsuspecting noobs new to the sport ., yes they are cheap but a lot were not of skirmishable quality . So noobs turned up on a skirmish site and were imediatly outgunned and outclassed by much better equipment brought from reputable Airsoft retailers . Watch any of the endless jbb gun videos and you will see what everyone laughs about . Only recently have they upped their game with better manufacturers and guns . So truly skirmishable equipment is available .

Also what went against them previously was their dubious way of ascertaining a persons age before selling online , as a few threads on forums exposed after one of their employees stated that if they sound over 18 on the phone that's good enough . On a public forum . Times do change and now they have reinvented themselves as a reputable Airsoft supplier , so hopefully that is all in the past . I visited the shop the other day in feltham and they seem to be friendly enough .

But nowadays with shops like pro Airsoft raising the game and giving enviable customer support and after sales service , not forgetting fully backed up warrantys on their products for up to 2 years . Everyone has had to raise their game or get left behind .

Any retailer can sell you a product its how they treat you afterwards if problems arise that counts . I shall sit back and see how they fare with the aftercare and customer support before I judge and jury them ..

[TheFull9]

Inaccurate advertising is an understatement, to put it mildly.  Whether they still do it I don't know, but they've been advertising ~£20-30 super low-end springers as having 50-60m range with pinpoint accuracy for years; "amazing build quality", etc etc etc.  How anyone can think that's an acceptable business practice I don't understand, I find it utterly disgusting, especially given the market they aim at i.e. new players who aren't going to realise any different.

 

How is it acceptable to con and deceive their customers because said customer should've gone out and done the research for themselves?  If you want new blood to come in to airsoft, then you don't achieve anything at all ripping them off and selling them shoddy products advertised as top of the line.  Because when those junk guns fall apart after 2 shots, the young lad who's been saving his pocket money for god knows how long is hardly going to feel encouraged to get more in to a hobby which has just taken his hard saved cash and exchanged it for a few broken bits of absurdly weak plastic.

[creepingfear]

Not to mention they are also clearly advertising an illegal practice.

 

If you go through the motions of placing an order for a RIF, select UKARA and then fail to supply said UKARA number, they clearly state that they will cancel and refund your order, less an admin fee.

 

Oh dear.............

 

 

 

......very illegal as per Distance Selling Regulations.

 

 

 

 

 

A cowboy outfit if ever there was one.

[FireKnife]

Eisenhorn I think you are missing the point.

 

There is nothing wrong with new players using toy guns that are not painted in the correct colours, we all have to start somewhere.

 

The issue with JustBBGuns is that they are first advertising guns at three times the price and three times what they can do when really they are worth little if anything. While other places sell cheap guns they at least sell them at an appropriate price. Add in that JustBBGuns is a place know for breaking the rules of the VCRA, I even recall a forum debate with one of the shop workers that basically had him trying to defend the practices of said shop even when they were proved to be in the wrong. Even if they have cleaned up now it still doesn't bode well to have done it in the first place.

 

They have basically made a very bad name for themselves and have caused more issues than they have solved. Add in that this website is usually top of the list for non-players like chavs to see and buy from and we all know exactly how much they know about the VCRA and following the letter of the law.

 

In others words the airsoft community as a whole would benefit from them not exisiting, but sadly they do and as no-one has enough evidence to back up some of their past practices so we just have to leave them to it and get on with it. Two-tones can be bought from oher places that actually check the age of the customer correctly and deal with them properly if that is what they want instead of hiring.

 

'FireKnife'

[Im going space]

As much as i may dislike them, zeroone have the right idea with a copy of ID.

[thatguy404]

Not to mention they are also clearly advertising an illegal practice.

 

If you go through the motions of placing an order for a RIF, select UKARA and then fail to supply said UKARA number, they clearly state that they will cancel and refund your order, less an admin fee.

 

Oh dear.............

 

JustBBGuns.JPG

 

 

......very illegal as per Distance Selling Regulations.

 

 

 

 

 

A cowboy outfit if ever there was one.

 

Land warrior charge a £5 admin fee for the same thing.

[Baddbaz]

Not legal at all

[creepingfear]

Exactly.

 

As per DSR's, a retailer can only charge a direct cost that they have incurred. For example, a customer returns an item, the retailer can charge a direct cost in having to have that return ie cost of having item return/inspected to check it's still OK ect. Similar things like "We charge a 5% / 10% / 15% ect ect restocking fee" are utterly illegal and unenforceable under Consumer Law.

 

Home_Shopping.PDF

Shoppers_Rights_for_England_and_Wales.pdf

A_guide_for_businesses_on_distance_selling.pdf

 

[thatguy404]

Learn something new everyday.
 

[creepingfear]

 

Exactly.

 

As per DSR's, a retailer can only charge a direct cost that they have incurred. For example, a customer returns an item, the retailer can charge a direct cost in having to have that return ie cost of having item return/inspected to check it's still OK ect. Similar things like "We charge a 5% / 10% / 15% ect ect restocking fee" are utterly illegal and unenforceable under Consumer Law.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Forgot to edit this post to add something that I forgot to include:

Charging an admin fee is in no way a direct cost that has been incurred by a trader. And withholding a fee based solely on incorrect or non-existant information being provided is in violation of Consumer Rights.

[creepingfear]

Land warrior charge a £5 admin fee for the same thing.

 

You mean this one:

 

http://www.landwarriorairsoft.com/acatalog/Airsoft_Equipment_How_To_Order.html

 

Yep, also illegal. You cannot withhold money from someone just because they have not provided the correct information.

 

I wonder how many more retailers are blatantly advertising illegal terms and conditions?

 

Remember peeps, terms and conditions from retailers do not replace your Statutory Rights, but are in addition to your Statutory Rights. Any contract terms that try to replace said Statutory Rights are unfair contract terms.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/legal-powers/legal/unfair-terms/guidance#.UXgz3UpMeDU

[Inq Eisenhorn]

Whoa there. There's a couple of things I'd like to address. First up, I think we should be careful about label long traders as con artist etc based solely on business practice's we don't like. A business has every right to charge a price for a product as they see fit. Let's look at some of the claims being made here. So JBBG are charging more for a cheap imitation firearm (IF) then 1) Anyone else, and 2) More then some people think it's worth. So, where does that leave places like Fire Support, or Proairsoft Supplies? These are both reputable retailers, and I know for a fact they don't charge the cheapest prices.....so, by the logic shown here, they must be scam artists as well. Why is it OK for them to charge higher prices for a product and not for JBBG?

 

Now let's look at the point regarding information. the accusation is that JBBG will falsely advertise a product or won't let customers know that a product is fit for purpose or not. I shop at Action hobbies, great shop if you ask me. I've bought a number of guns through them, on their website they make a statement regarding the fps of the guns, but are careful to also state that it's approx, numbers could be higher or lower than shown. Nearly every gun I've bought needs down grading after I receive it (and before you say these are cheap chinasoft guns, no, they were all King Arms, and expensive)! So, what does that make them? Liars and theives? If I shop online at Fire-Support most of the guns have either a very modest and barely acceptable description of what I'm buying, in some cases no description at all, yet these guys are lauded as paragons of airsoft retailing.

 

Let's look at the ridiculous claim that JBBG doesn't care who they sell their IFs to. I'll be honest, I find this the most ridiculous and stupidly hypocritical statement of all. Well listen guys, since the government made it legal to sell IFs to ANYONE over 18, NO ONE CARES WHO THEY SELL IFs TO!!! No one, not Fire Support, not Proairsoft Supplies, not Redwolf.....NO ONE...

 

Now it's illegal to sell to someone under 18! If you can prove JBBG is doing that, with hard evidence, don't croon about it on here, take it to the Police and get them shutdown. Help protect our sport. My guess is, those saying such things have heard this information from a friend of a friend who heard it in his sleep from his cat....pathetic, it's things like this which make forums end up like Zero-in.

 

And about the little jab at me because I dared suggest we're responsible for our purchases and who we buy them from. I stand by my statement, we, as individuals have a duty to ourselves to shop around, ask questions, and root out the best deal. If you're buying from JBBG then you're over 18, and therefore old enough and ugly enough to take responsibility for how you shop. JBBG has one obligation, to part you and your money (like every other airsoft retailer) could they win more business if they treated their customers better? Maybe, but their under no obligation to do so. As long as they operate within the law, all these claims about them are just hot air.

 

Finally, a lot of places state they will deduct an admin charge for false information regarding UKARA. I actually doubt this is illegal, as they can most probably 'prove' that once the order was placed a number of activities are undertaken in order to validate the information and process the order. People are maybe forgetting that peoples working time is as much a commodity as 'restocking an item', and what about the cost of recharging credit card payments? The best part, these deductions are advertised to dissuade people trying to place orders without qualifying to provide a defence for the seller to make a sale, it puts a monetary penalty on trying to dodge the system, and provides one more safeguard to avoid Captain Chav making orders willy nilly at every online retailer until at some point he get's lucky and slips the net. So on the one hand you guys are screaming foul at companies (specifically JBBG) for contravening the edicts of the VCR-A, and yet when they put something in place to help uphold it you scream thief and accuse them of trying to break distance selling law.....you are certainly a hard crowd to please.

[Baddbaz]

If you source the thread last year where jbb employee ( tech ) due to maybe his stupidity or lack of age posted up on a forum how they check their customers were over 18 , innocently at first until it descended into an attack on jbb practices for selling online and by phone .

To compare a shop like jbb to pro Airsoft , lw or fire support is an insult to anyone's intelligence .

These shops offer knowledgable customer service on the goods they sell not stupid videos claiming unbelievable rubbish . Example . One video claims the g36 to be an all metal gun .

Also pro Airsoft check , chrono and upgrade or downgrade , free of charge any gun they sell . Nothing leaves the shop without being fully tested , hence the reason they offer their bulletproof warrantys . They have full g&g support , as their tech is certificated by g&g and also the holder of many engineering degrees , they are also listed as the main uk agent on g&g s own website .

Lw , fs and pas do not test their guns on 0.12 bbs or claim absurd fps or ranges for their guns , which jbb have done in many of their reveiws .

[creepingfear]

Finally, a lot of places state they will deduct an admin charge for false information regarding UKARA. I actually doubt this is illegal, as they can most probably 'prove' that once the order was placed a number of activities are undertaken in order to validate the information and process the order. People are maybe forgetting that peoples working time is as much a commodity as 'restocking an item', and what about the cost of recharging credit card payments? The best part, these deductions are advertised to dissuade people trying to place orders without qualifying to provide a defence for the seller to make a sale, it puts a monetary penalty on trying to dodge the system, and provides one more safeguard to avoid Captain Chav making orders willy nilly at every online retailer until at some point he get's lucky and slips the net. So on the one hand you guys are screaming foul at companies (specifically JBBG) for contravening the edicts of the VCR-A, and yet when they put something in place to help uphold it you scream thief and accuse them of trying to break distance selling law.....you are certainly a hard crowd to please.

 

Nope. Consumer law is very clear on what retailers can or cannot charge and in what manner they can/cannot do it. The information is out there. Just a case of reading it.

 

As far as I'm concerned, if a retailer has the intelligence to take the time to research their chosen field of business then they also have the intelligence to take the time to research their legal responsibilities. Anything less, to me, smacks of unprofessional business practice.

[Baddbaz]

As judge dredd would say'

iTS THE LAWWWW ' !

[creepingfear]

Which Dredd?

 

The more slightly intelligent one or the rather thick one (guess which one I refer to)?

[Powerslave]

If they're breaking the law report them. Seems to be a widespread problem if two websites are doing it openly.

 

Also a lot of this talk is hearsay. We need some more evidence for some of these accusations. Its fine to advise people not to shop somewhere but to actually allege crimes without evidence is at the very least a faux pa.

[creepingfear]

I took screenshots of two retailers that I know of where it is openly stated in black and white. Doesn't get any more evidence based than that ;-)