blobface Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 The main contention here is the price Not for me it isn't, I was willing to pay and made arrangement to get one of the Russian 9x39mm replicas with a few pieces of accessories, which was close to £800. It's a standard AEG in a cool shape, but I felt it was justified, it was low production, full steel made from scratch and unique. BO manufacture however is a different story, for me, it's pure dishonesty. Starting with their name, BO MANUFACTURE, there's no manufacture? It's customisation, not even a very extensive one, if you took a gun and fitted real steel parts that requires welding and trimming to fit, then yes, that's a customisation, taking a gearbox and inner barrel and sanding the edges, isn't customisation you can justify with that much mark up at all. And until LCT owners like myself and many others here have picked up on it, there has not been a single mention of this being a custom piece based on an existing product, they sell it off as if it was made fresh by them with external quality that matches Inokatsu (which isn't even the best for AKs). Everything stinks, and how much of these supposed upgrades are really upgrades? Do you know how well LCT guns work out of the box? Pretty well as it is, so how much of these "upgrades" are actually an improvements? We can never know.. so for me, my contention isn't the price, it's the fact that they are being dishonest and trying to lure players who haven't done a lot of research into buying one based on the idea that.. well, it sounds pretty good, looks pretty good, and with that price tag, it must be the best... Link to post Share on other sites
steinarsen44 Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Every single black ops gun that pas had sold quite quickly so obviously there is a market for them . Same as the pre upgraded vsr snipers and predator guns that z one make sell out fast , also pas sell custom guns that always sell out . Fast as well . Also fire support build custom guns that also sell well . I think you need to talk to a few retailers / suppliers before jumping to conclusions about the Airsoft marketplace . Well, when you make only 100 guns, being sold out "pretty fast" is not really impressive. If the market was there they would be sold out in one day. Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 If you actually take the time to watch their reveiws and marketing videos and posts they actually tell you that the base gun is an lct and also what they did to improve it and customise it . They refuse to use cheap parts and research to find the best parts they can before assembling and tuning it all . The 416 and m4 use a lot of utg bits and Lonex which are premium parts in anyone's book . So how are they deceitfull ? When I met them they were solid guys and very transparent with their work on the guns Very genuine people . If I was in the market for another ak I would have brought one . But 46 guns is enough for anyone's Missus to have to put up with .. Link to post Share on other sites
cazboab Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Premium parts, that are the wrong parts, so you pay more for bits you'll need to replace... Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Well, when you make only 100 guns, being sold out "pretty fast" is not really impressive. If the market was there they would be sold out in one day.They wouldn't be exclusive then would they ! Real sword do exactly the same on a bigger scale . Batches of 500 and then you have to wait and wait for the next limited run . Even tm do it with the biohazard guns . Keeps values up Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 If you actually take the time to watch their reveiws and marketing videos and posts they actually tell you that the base gun is an lct That's dishonest, just like the tiny small prints in terms and condition. If you pick a base gun and "customise" it, then do what Hephaestus did with GHK, they are called Hephaestus GHK AK, the first line of description in shops is, "GHK AK GBB based", we don't have to watch videos, we don't have to go to a different website. The word LCT is simply not found anywhere in descriptions , you can't take a car, repaint it, and sell it while claiming that you built the car from scratch surely? Lonex parts are very popular and known to be pretty good quality while being very cheap, but "premium" it isn't... Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 That's dishonest, just like the tiny small prints in terms and condition. If you pick a base gun and "customise" it, then do what Hephaestus did with GHK, they are called Hephaestus GHK AK, the first line of description in shops is, "GHK AK GBB based", we don't have to watch videos, we don't have to go to a different website. The word LCT is simply not found anywhere in descriptions , you can't take a car, repaint it, and sell it while claiming that you built the car from scratch surely? Lonex parts are very popular and known to be pretty good quality while being very cheap, but "premium" it isn't... , So g&g are dishonest by not declaring they use lct body's on their ak guns , a lot of manufacturers use undeclared parts in the Airsoft manufacturing process . Ares used S&t gears . Other manufactures do exactly the same thing Link to post Share on other sites
Im going space Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Do we actually know that g&g use lct? Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 , So g&g are dishonest by not declaring they use lct body's on their ak guns , a lot of manufacturers use undeclared parts in the Airsoft manufacturing process . Ares used S&t gears . Other manufactures do exactly the same thing Yeap, if they are benefiting from the work of LCT without declaring it, i.e. boasting a full steel body, while claiming it to be their own, that is pretty much by definition being dishonest. GHK used LCT body, guess what they did? They advertised it, told everyone they worked with LCT for their GBB series. Ares and S&T used to be the same company, they had a fall out and split, so that's a completely different story.. Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Premium parts, that are the wrong parts, so you pay more for bits you'll need to replace... If you can do better why not start your own company then ? All gun parts wear out eventually and guess what , people spend money to fit better parts in them so the parts cost more money argument is a bit meh . Link to post Share on other sites
aznriptide859 Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Biggest giveaway is that LCT's receiver do not use front trunion pins. If you can't punch it out, it's LCT - otherwise, it's VFC-based. Also, LCT's "brand" encompasses a number of other brands, including Dynamic Star (for sure) and Hephaestus (most likely). Link to post Share on other sites
Im going space Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 So G&G use the LCT design... Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 If you can do better why not start your own company then ? You don't have to be a chef to not visit a restaurant that stinks... Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Yeap, if they are benefiting from the work of LCT without declaring it, i.e. boasting a full steel body, while claiming it to be their own, that is pretty much by definition being dishonest. GHK used LCT body, guess what they did? They advertised it, told everyone they worked with LCT for their GBB series. Ares and S&T used to be the same company, they had a fall out and split, so that's a completely different story.. Same with we and their pistols . The traded ones px4 3pk thing . Umarex do it , cybergun do it . Seems pretty commonplace to me . Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 and Hephaestus (most likely). Nah, I think Hephaestus is Hong Kong based, their products are very different, LCT has much better hardware to produce their parts, it's quite evident when you compare directly, I might be wrong though, it's just an observation, no proper source to back it. (i.e. dynamic star quick select lever vs Hephaestus quick select lever) Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 You don't have to be a chef to not visit a restaurant that stinks...So I take that as a no I can't then ? Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 So I take that as a no I can't then ? I customised my own AK by CNCing my own steel parts, including a Rifle Dynamics style Bolt-on gas block threaded for real steel 6 x 0.75mm front sight post, and I call that customisation. So yes, I can. Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 And how many have you managed to sell to date ? Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Sigh Baddbaz... stop digging.. can you explain your obsession over defending this clearly fraudulent product...? You said you don't work for them... did you buy one? If you bought one, then fine, I get it... Link to post Share on other sites
intinerious Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Same with we and their pistols . The traded ones px4 3pk thing . Umarex do it , cybergun do it . Seems pretty commonplace to me . HK3P is WE for all intents and purposes. Also, the 416 you mentioned have the flash hider timed incorrectly if the suppressor was mounted correctly...clearly BO didn't pay much attention to the externals if they don't know how to mount a KAC NT4 suppressor properly...just sayin'. Oh and any idea what lower receiver is on the 416? It's not a Colt or FN so I have no idea what it is. Link to post Share on other sites
Apex Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 If you can do better why not start your own company then ? All gun parts wear out eventually and guess what , people spend money to fit better parts in them so the parts cost more money argument is a bit meh . But are they really better or just replacement parts ? what you define has better might differ to what others define. To me all that BO have done is take a clone ak and add a price tag on top nothing more; argue all you want. "If you want a gun that works out of the box" In what context ? because for me every rif i have bought out the box has worked without needing me to muck about with it (i have had both cheep and slighty not so cheap); are you saying that the price of this RIF means that you have a less chance of getting a lemon or that in some way the price makes it better because if so that is a load of horse *suitcase*. Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 As I said earlier I own too many guns as it is without another to swell my lack of storage space . My argument is that this is a very. Very nice gun In performance and finish , the people that brought it to the marketplace are very skilled and enthusiastic individuals who have an infectious enthusiasm with what they do . I was one of the first to see this gun and a few other people with me including respected techies . We're highly impressed with it , Yes it's expensive , but so are a lot of Airsoft guns that don't work half as well as the black ops guns . If I didn't have my real sword aks this would have found its way into my collection . The m4 prototype they showcased me . Probably will though . Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 My argument is that this is a very. Very nice gun Of course it is... LCT make amazing guns... I know.. I own a few... no one is saying the gun isn't nice... we're all just saying they've taken an already nice gun... and pretended it was their own.. Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 So have a lot of Airsoft manufacturers by cloning tm guns in the first place Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 So have a lot of Airsoft manufacturers by cloning tm guns in the first place So we're back to this... there is a very big difference, between cloning, and reselling while claiming to be your own... to clone, you actually have to reverse engineer and MANUFACTURE, something you might remember seeing on the name of Black Ops Manufacture... buying a gun, sanding it, changing the gearbox, and selling it while claiming to have MANUFACTURED it is not the same story... you seem to find it really difficult to grasp the difference.. Anyway, I'm out, I think the general impression from everyone is clear, which means this thread probably served some sort of purpose, good or bad. Link to post Share on other sites
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