onizuka-gto Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 What the... $244?! I bet the breacher shotgun from Marui will cost about the same...bloody rip off. I'll just wait for the breacher... Or until the price goes down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wingmann Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I guess this is where you pre-ordered the Angry Gun one http://www.mlemart.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=3371 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atsalakotos Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Well 100GBP is about 180USD so 60$ is not a lot cheeper considering that you DO get a stock and pistol grip with the G&P kit... Even so, 180$ and 240$ is a lot of money considering the gun itself costs 300$... but i will end up buying one of the two, the original stock is way too unwieldy to use in CQB games for me... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Has anyone used mlemart before? I've never heard of them ever.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
onizuka-gto Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 (edited) Has anyone used mlemart before? I've never heard of them ever.. Nope. And i'm positive it's assembled in Hong Kong, so i'm not sure whether it makes sense to buy something that has been built and packed just down the road, then shipped over to the UK, only to buy it, so they can ship it back..... Edited May 26, 2014 by onizuka-gto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trap Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Iv ordered from them before. The parts came directly from HK, I believe they are based there. I got great service from them, some of the items I wanted had been discontinued by ace1arms so he sent me a free magazine. Since then he has badgered them to make some more and they have done. So iv been pretty impressed with them so far. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Is that a free paper magazine or a free mag..? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trap Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Ah DOH! I meant a free M4 flash mag sorry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
onizuka-gto Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Ah DOH! I meant a free M4 flash mag sorry. ...and here i got all excited over the idea of a recyclable friendly paper magazine in STANAG M4 style..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arne71 Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Here is a reply from AG on Facebook, regarding what gas the stock kit is designed for. AngryGun Its for the regular green gas. It must better than original marui gas tank because the material use 6061 Aluminium CNC milling and the capacity larger than original at least twice. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FTZ-WildeCard Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 As much capacity as two of the original tanks? OK I'm starting to really like the AG kit...! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Habakure Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) But doesn't green need more space than 134/144a? Edit: sorry this is what I meant. For the same space you get more shots from 144a than green gas. Edited May 28, 2014 by Habakure Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Propane has an expansion ratio of 1:270. I'm not sure what the expansion ratio for 1,1,1,2 tetrafluoroethane is; I don't know what actual chemical composition of '144a' is either unfortunately. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleedout Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Quite tempted by the angry gun kit myself. Just may wait for the 2nd batch to be manufactured should any issues arrive with the 1st batch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stuey Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 No idea about expansion ratios, or even if they're relevant, but empirically for a given gas reservoir the higher the pressure of the gas used, the fewer shots you get. Interestingly, unless I'm doing chemistry wrong, 144a can't exist. I say 'can't' because the the numbers are a naming system which describe various things about the structure of the molecule, and 144 is impossible. So who knows what's actually in it, I assume Abbey (they're the only ones selling it I think) called it 144 for familiarity's sake, like a logical/numerical progression from 134. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Yep. It is called 144a purely because it appears similar to the 134a name. Nothing to do with its chemical makeup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Habakure Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 If you can get more shots with the angry gun kit, than the standard Marui mag (gas reservoir thingy me bob) that's good news. Well, good news if it's reliable (holds gas). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 It's also in a convenient location for gas charging, also not terrible for attaching a hose to something external for those who don't mind it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) No idea about expansion ratios, or even if they're relevant, but empirically for a given gas reservoir the higher the pressure of the gas used, the fewer shots you get. I don't think your empirical research is correct... Consider propane (~140psi at 25°C) and CO2 (~900psi at 25°C). Expansion ratios govern how much gas the liquid you're able to force into the reservoir will expand into. More gas obviously equals more shots. Propane has an expansion ratio of 1:270 (that is, 1cm3 of liquid propane = 270cm3 of gaseous propane), whereas CO2 has an expansion ratio of 1:450 (that is, 1cm3 of liquid CO2 = 450cm3 of gaseous CO2). Therefore, you could squeeze substantially (66% more) CO2 than propane into equal reservoirs, which should translate (all other things being equal, which they aren't) to 66% more shots from the CO2 magazine than from the propane one. Edited May 28, 2014 by PureSilver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 I think that's if you make the assumption that an equal amount of liquid is let out every time the trigger is pulled / hammer is dropped regardless of propellant (or more effective yet, equivalent volume of liquid is let out to produce a required volume of gas to propel BBs), but with this being airsoft, nothing is this precise, and usually the valve timer is either controlled by something basic like hammer strike on a valve that re-closes with the pressure of its gas + spring, or by how the weapon cycles and deactivates the valve knocker, essentially, the amount of time the valve is opened in a given system is a constant, so if that's the case, the higher the pressure, the more gas forces its way out of the reservoir, giving a total end result of less total shots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stuey Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 I don't think your empirical research is correct... Consider propane (~140psi at 25°C) and CO2 (~900psi at 25°C). Expansion ratios govern how much gas the liquid you're able to force into the reservoir will expand into. More gas obviously equals more shots. Propane has an expansion ratio of 1:270 (that is, 1cm3 of liquid propane = 270cm3 of gaseous propane), whereas CO2 has an expansion ratio of 1:450 (that is, 1cm3 of liquid CO2 = 450cm3 of gaseous CO2). Therefore, you could squeeze substantially (66% more) CO2 than propane into equal reservoirs, which should translate (all other things being equal, which they aren't) to 66% more shots from the CO2 magazine than from the propane one. It may not be 'correct', but as you say it's empirical and correct based on what I've observed. I wasn't thinking of CO2 when I wrote that post either. No idea about CO2 really, seeing as we can't (or shouldn't anyway ha) charge normal mags with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 I think that's if you make the assumption that an equal amount of liquid is let out every time the trigger is pulled Like I said, not all things are equal. Airsoft guns that shoot CO2 tend to have very strong springs and the like, which lessens their gas efficiency. Airsoft guns that shoot CO2 also tend to experience a power bump when doing so, which means they're not equivalent to the propane-powered shots any more. Some gases (although I don't know specifics for CO2 or propane) might suffer from adiabatic cooling more severely than others (causing a more severe or more sustained drop in pressure) which would also affect the amount of gas that escaped. There's a lot of variables that affect how many shots you get out of a gun; my point is that there is no hard-and-fast - or even general - rule that you should get more shots out of a low-pressure gas than a high-pressure one. It may not be 'correct', but as you say it's empirical and correct based on what I've observed. The biggest problem with all this conjecture is we still don't know what's in most airsoft propellants. CO2, propane, dichlorodifluoromethane (R12), chlorodifluoromethane (R22) or 1,1,1,2 tetrafluoroethane (R134a) are one thing, but blended mixes with propane and propene, or as-yet-unidentified replacements for any of the R-numbered chemicals are much harder to identify. If we don't know the chemical characteristics of what we're working with, it's almost impossible to determine how to optimise our guns. Imagine trying to tune a car engine without knowing the octane number of the liquid you're fuelling it with; it could be heavy fuel oil or it could be ether, or anything in between - and the difference between those two relatively similar molecules is enormous. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AG1212 Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 I've the opportunity to pick up one of these boomsticks second hand for a good price, could you lads help a brotha out and tell me if: A. Can this take GG without destroying itself in an Irish (moderate) climate and B. What are the major weak points/failings of the system? I've heard the nozzles tend to break and jam, barrel wobbles etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
point7 Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 the nozzle are indeed a problem , pick a spare one up if you can, but in the second batch thats out now the gun should be better . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Norotor Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 So does anyone have first-hand experience fixing the problem of 6-shot mode shooting less than 6 BBs? Mine is getting worse; started out only shooting 5 BBs, then 4, and now it only shoots 2 BBs in 6-Shot mode, but 3 in 3-shot mode. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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