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zushiku

Magpul PTS RM4 ERG Series.

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I've put around 8k rnds through my RM4 ERG Scout. I haven't had any jams or misfires. The paint has chipped a little, but I was crawling in the dirt and doing a bunch of stuff that really beat up the gun. The upper receiver is all one piece. 

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My 2 KWA/PTS ERG Scouts.

Left one has RS Geissele SMR Mk 2, RS Aimpoint M4, RS Aimpoint x3 Magnifier on a QD ring & Flip to SIde B&T mount. This one has a 2 piece 14.5 inch barrel (G&P 10.5 inch with a 4 inch extension).

 

Right, now wearing Foliage Green Magpul furniture with RS Comp M2.

 

IMG_0924_zps39e99e12.jpg

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So I fielded my new TM HK416 DEVGRU for the first time today and it equaled maximum distance with my longest ranging AEG, so I was very happy with the long range kills and overall performance. It's a solid gun and looks and performs great.

 

Then I hear of a fuss at the firing range at the end of lunch and I'm advised to go check out this other guy's new recoil M4. Turns out it was the RM4 CQB ERG. It felt solid and looked good, but nothing too flashy. The owner was upset because the shop he bought it from promised it fired 345FPS max, but it went through 2 separate chrono's on site at 363-370FPS, so he wasn't allowed to field his new toy.

 

Even though he was annoyed, he was grinning like an idiot and after firing the thing I can see why......It easily had an extra 5-10m on my already great 416 and the felt recoil, especially in semi-auto made the 416 (and every other TM recoil I've used) feel like they had zero recoil by comparison! I was seriously impressed with it and did secretly regret not being able to try one out before spending a higher amount on the TM 416.

 

Do I want rid of my 416.......nope, it's a cracking gun, but given how much more quickly the RM4 ERG got the BB's down range and how much farther, I may restrict it to CQB duties at circa 300FPS. I could quite easily see an RM4 ERG in my future for woodland use and it impressed me so much, I felt the need to write my thoughts here.

 

Well done KWA and PTS. Now when are non-Magpul ones being released?

 

(P.S. some slightly weaker springs would be a nice option, to save cutting them for UK purposes.)

Edited by Ryaw
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Not to rain on the ERG parade, but your 416 is probably shooting 320 at the very most, so the other guys' gun had at least 45 FPS extra on you.  I know FPS is not the be-all and end-all in terms of range, but I'd say that much of a difference sort of negates the fact his rifle was slinging beebs further and faster than your weapon.

 

NB - Not knocking the platform at all, probably get one myself when more models emerge.

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The owner was upset because the shop he bought it from promised it fired 345FPS max, but it went through 2 separate chrono's on site at 363-370FPS, so he wasn't allowed to field his new toy.

Did he buy it online, or in person? If bought in person I would assume he thought to chrono/test it himself to ensure velocity and function.

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He bought it at a local shop and they apparently chrono'd it there for him, although I doubt he got to see the results for himself.

 

Yes the extra FPS got the BB's down range noticeably faster, but the maximum effective range was much better than the TM, of which I've owned a few versions, including upgrades to 350FPS, which equaled the range of my standard 416. Based on this, I'm happy to conclude that the ERG has more than just extra FPS making the difference and giving it the great results that I experienced.

 

That said, I know many owners here have replaced the standard hop rubber with a guarder one after they weren't happy with the standard range. I can only assume that there are differences in how each rifle performs then, as this one was excellent, shooting at least 60m+, on our measured site range.

 

2 things putting me off buying an ERG are the lack of same length, less powerful OEM springs available, requiring the standard spring to be chopped for UK purposes and also some recent reports of the trigger contacts burning out with 11.1V Lipo's which the gun is apparently designed to be used with.

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I wouldn't necessarily let those things put you of but I understand your concerns.

 

I only use 7.4v lipos and yes it's a slower gun but when you've only got 60 BB's. Do you really wanna burn through them in 3 seconds?

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Did he buy it online, or in person? If bought in person I would assume he thought to chrono/test it himself to ensure velocity and function.

Well, let's consider for a second that he did buy it in person, and what if the seller revealed that the gun fired above 350fps (usual UK limit)....his options become buy it anyway, or walk away. Is this the only business choice that PTS wants to provide its UK customer base? I recognise that the UK may / may not be the be all and end all for most airsoft manufacturers, but a sale is a sale. The least PTS could do would be to create downgrade kits.....you guys are missing a trick here.

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I'd have expected a good retailer to downgrade it for free, a full-auto shooting over 350 on a 0.2s isn't much good to anyone at all in the UK.  Really I'd have hoped by this stage in the game retailers would be chrono'ing batches of product as they come in and getting them sorted, or (even better, crazy idea) having good enough comms with their suppliers to ensure they come in to the country ready for sale to and use by the people who're actually going to buy them.

 

Pretty sure it's KWA that manufactures/assembles them though?  Don't think the springs put inside them has anything at all to do with PTS.

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Pretty sure it's KWA that manufactures/assembles them though?  Don't think the springs put inside them has anything at all to do with PTS.

KWA are the OEM, but the product belongs to PTS, so regardless of who actually makes it, the company with its name and logo plastered all over it have a logical vested interest in making sure it's viable to its customers. Something as fundamental as fps should be something PTS has a say in!

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Did anybody figure out a definitive answer to downgrading whilst keeping the recoil as high as possible?

What I personally used was a Madbull M130 and a stock spring (asked KWA CS specifically for the stock RM4 spring).  I cut the spring down a coil, chrono, repeat till I get the desired FPS. 

 

Interesting things regarding FPS:

 

The stock spring in my RM4 scout goes about 400 FPS with .2g. 

 

An uncut Madbull M130 (linear coils) gets about 420 FPS.  I had to cut about 4-6 coils to get it to about 350 FPS. Felt recoil is a tad less than the stock 400 FPS spring.  The Madbull spring is longer but not as stiff as the stock RM4 Spring.

 

I now use a second stock RM4 spring cut down a few coils to get 350 FPS (forgot how many coils I cut, just cut 1/2 a coil and chrono).  Recoil is a bit less than the stock uncut spring, but better than the Madbull M130.

 

The compression in the cylnder/ piston head is pretty awful, to be honest, but I believe it is done on purpose to keep the FPS within the field limits.  If someone is looking to do a 450+ FPS DMR build, I think tefloning the cylinder head and getting better compression itself should do the trick.

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I also found that just taking 1.5-2 coils of the standard installed spring have me the desired fps without sacrificing the recoil excessively.

 

When I tried a cut down M100 and a matching M100 in place of the recoil spring the fps was spot on but recoil was very poor.

 

It seems to me that the stiffness of the springs used is the most important factor. That and balancing them too.

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