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Magpul PTS RM4 ERG Series.


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I think you're misusing the phrase 'prone to failure', and even if you weren't, the Recoil Shock is a modern design not known for failures to feed or dropping 100fps at random. In addition to that, th

Pics of before and after changing the front end, comp and extending the wiring into the peq box.      

Could just be that we airsofters are a fickle bunch who constantly need to get the latest shiny things.

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Lol....really? Or, could it be that TM rifles, like any other, are prone to failure? I get the whole TM AM BESTEST thing, even though my own personal experience tells me a different story...but what I can't for the life of me understand is why so many appear to be popping up on Zero In for sale / trade?!?

I think you're misusing the phrase 'prone to failure', and even if you weren't, the Recoil Shock is a modern design not known for failures to feed or dropping 100fps at random. In addition to that, they're expensive; if mine displayed either of those symptoms I'd want to know why rather than just buying another gun and writing off a £500 toy as 'broken'. As for why they're on ZeroIn, they do have a sub-section of the Classifieds dealing exclusively with EBBs, of which Recoil Shocks are the most numerous, so if you go in there, you are going to see proportionally a lot of Recoil Shocks for sale. Much more regular AEGs and GBBs change hands in the other sub-sections. Plus, they hold their value well, so you don't lose all your money selling up - but forget all of that, I'm sure it's because they're secretly awful and we're just keeping the pretence up while we divest ourselves of all the kit... :rolleyes:

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Could anyone help me out. I need to see the parts diagram on the manual. I sold my ERG to a friend a little while back and he recently broke the cut-off lever on the gear box. I need to know the part number so I can email shops and KWA to get the part. Unfortunately KWA's proshop hasn't added the RM4 as far as I can see.

 

Somehow managed to scan it as a PDF.. but either way I hosted it online for you. Follow this link to download it. 

 

http://www.pdfhost.net/index.php?Action=Download&File=819e8f7bc43f3d2490349131d6f7c764

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I think you're misusing the phrase 'prone to failure', and even if you weren't, the Recoil Shock is a modern design not known for failures to feed or dropping 100fps at random. In addition to that, they're expensive; if mine displayed either of those symptoms I'd want to know why rather than just buying another gun and writing off a £500 toy as 'broken'. As for why they're on ZeroIn, they do have a sub-section of the Classifieds dealing exclusively with EBBs, of which Recoil Shocks are the most numerous, so if you go in there, you are going to see proportionally a lot of Recoil Shocks for sale. Much more regular AEGs and GBBs change hands in the other sub-sections. Plus, they hold their value well, so you don't lose all your money selling up - but forget all of that, I'm sure it's because they're secretly awful and we're just keeping the pretence up while we divest ourselves of all the kit... :rolleyes:

 

Ok, well, they're all fair points. I don't want to turn this thread into an ERG vs TM debate. All I'm really saying is, if the TM is as "good" as everyone states, it makes little or no sense why "so many" seem to be going up for sale. Saying airsofters are fickle, just doesn't make sense, unless fickle translates into wanting something not as good as what you have.

 

FYI, the EBB section is not dedicated to Recoil Shock's, the section is intended for guns that have Electric Blow Back (the faux bolt sliding back and forth), the addition of Recoil is because that's the most convienient location for them....again, if you're pro anything, you'll find reasons to be so, and that obviously works in the other direction as well.

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Ever thought about people selling their TM because either they want a change of platform or they just don't want to have such a large amount of funds held in one item. Maybe they want to spread the wealth a little and add some variety. Whilst that might not be an issue for some I personally wouldn't want to have a single rifle for all situations. Granted I buy and sell RIFs faster than most and some do stay with me but even the favourites don't stay for too long, whether they're just changed ergonomically/aesthetically or completely sold to make room for somewhere else. 

 

The TM recoil system is proven and tested with very few faults if they are running well and maintained well just like any other system. If you treat it like *suitcase* you can expect it to run like *suitcase* sooner or later. There wouldn't be such a following if they had so many problems, I personally would say generally TM in general have fewer problems if they are left alone and not tampered with compared to other brands (not all, but some for certain).

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Guys, I get all of those points, what can I say? I don't subscribe to them.

Ever thought about people selling their TM because either they want a change of platform or they just don't want to have such a large amount of funds held in one item. Maybe they want to spread the wealth a little and add some variety. Whilst that might not be an issue for some I personally wouldn't want to have a single rifle for all situations. Granted I buy and sell RIFs faster than most and some do stay with me but even the favourites don't stay for too long, whether they're just changed ergonomically/aesthetically or completely sold to make room for somewhere else.

 

The TM recoil system is proven and tested with very few faults if they are running well and maintained well just like any other system. If you treat it like *suitcase* you can expect it to run like *suitcase* sooner or later. There wouldn't be such a following if they had so many problems, I personally would say generally TM in general have fewer problems if they are left alone and not tampered with compared to other brands (not all, but some for certain).

Again, sounds all very reasonable, but I still don't buy it! People having funds tied up in a single platform? Seriously? So people are unable to determine that their funds will be tied up before they purchase the gun? They actually need to buy it to realise "doh", now all my money is tied into one gun!?!? Hey, do you realise how many JG G36's I could buy with the money tied up in my Vipertech? Would it seem logical for me to sell it to go buy those G36's?....well, maybe, to you.....

 

Even the argument that people fancy a change.....to what? There's a guy on Zero In right now looking to trade a TM Sopmod for a VFC HK416?!?! Not even a TM version, but a standard AEG....surely this guy is taking a huge leap backwards, or am I just misunderstanding how great VFC AEG's are? (Even though I own two of them...)

 

Now the part about modification, this always makes me smile. First up, and I speak from first hand experience here, the materials that TM uses strikes me as being some what..."China soft", maybe the materials are excellent, but then the finish.....I don't know, when I handled the SCAR and the M4, everything just felt toy like and cheap.....so that said, why is it that EVERY OTHER airsoft platform can be modified but the TM seems to suffer? And before you talk about "new technology", this has been said about TM's since way before the Recoil Shock system. My guess is because while every other platform needs to be downgraded to basically operate below its standard parameters, the TM's always need to be pushed BEYOND their basic operating limits. If this isn't done correctly or wholesale on the system, pop goes the weasel!

 

But again, why are "so many" opting to do these mods? And I don't believe for one second that people are tinkering for that sake of it....what, with such an investment? That works "so well" out of the box? My guess is that these people are taking their guns out to play and are dissatisfied with the performance....why else would you pump yet more money into an already expensive item? It seems that Eagle6 has started a business out of that dissatisfaction.....

 

Now these are just my impressions from what I can see and touch. I've had numerous opportunities to purchase a TM recoil and every time, once viewing the situation logically, it never made sense....to me. If it made sense to you and others, great.....have at it.

 

I'm never going to convince you that you made a poor purchase, nor would I want to, equally you won't convince me that it's a purchase I should make....at least not the current TM offerings.

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Guys, I get all of those points, what can I say? I don't subscribe to them. Again, sounds all very reasonable, but I still don't buy it! People having funds tied up in a single platform? Seriously? So people are unable to determine that their funds will be tied up before they purchase the gun? They actually need to buy it to realise "doh", now all my money is tied into one gun!?!? Hey, do you realise how many JG G36's I could buy with the money tied up in my Vipertech? Would it seem logical for me to sell it to go buy those G36's?....well, maybe, to you.....

 

Even the argument that people fancy a change.....to what? There's a guy on Zero In right now looking to trade a TM Sopmod for a VFC HK416?!?! Not even a TM version, but a standard AEG....surely this guy is taking a huge leap backwards, or am I just misunderstanding how great VFC AEG's are? (Even though I own two of them...)

 

Now the part about modification, this always makes me smile. First up, and I speak from first hand experience here, the materials that TM uses strikes me as being some what..."China soft", maybe the materials are excellent, but then the finish.....I don't know, when I handled the SCAR and the M4, everything just felt toy like and cheap.....so that said, why is it that EVERY OTHER airsoft platform can be modified but the TM seems to suffer? And before you talk about "new technology", this has been said about TM's since way before the Recoil Shock system. My guess is because while every other platform needs to be downgraded to basically operate below its standard parameters, the TM's always need to be pushed BEYOND their basic operating limits. If this isn't done correctly or wholesale on the system, pop goes the weasel!

 

But again, why are "so many" opting to do these mods? And I don't believe for one second that people are tinkering for that sake of it....what, with such an investment? That works "so well" out of the box? My guess is that these people are taking their guns out to play and are dissatisfied with the performance....why else would you pump yet more money into an already expensive item? It seems that Eagle6 has started a business out of that dissatisfaction.....

 

Now these are just my impressions from what I can see and touch. I've had numerous opportunities to purchase a TM recoil and every time, once viewing the situation logically, it never made sense....to me. If it made sense to you and others, great.....have at it.

 

I'm never going to convince you that you made a poor purchase, nor would I want to, equally you won't convince me that it's a purchase I should make....at least not the current TM offerings.

 

I see your point but I think you are missing mine. At the time of purchase I'm sure they were certain they wanted to pump their money into that rifle. But now maybe they either want both a M4 platform and an AK platform and to do so need to use the money from their TM Recoil RIF to split it between two rifles or maybe they just can't justify having a RIF that is worth so much sitting around when they don't play often enough to justify it.

 

Or heavens above maybe they just wanted a regular AEG to say *fruitcage* you to all those TM fanboys and because they have some mega crazy custom build they want to create that isn't possible with a recoil system. Yes there is now a BTC fet available for Next Gen guns but that isn't the only route. Maybe they just want a basic plug and play AEG that doesn't cost a small fortune and one they can sling around their game site and not have to worry about it as its peanuts to replace. 

 

I'm not saying its not good to have money tied up in a single rifle. Hell my Polarstar build is running me close to £1500 now, not the most expensive out there but it certainly is a fair amount more than I expected to spend. Justified? Yes but if I ever needed money desperately I would have absolutely no issue selling it for a "regular" AEG. I know my way around them, I can tech it and build it to my specifications etc with confidence knowing I won't screw it up. 

 

I don't own a TM recoil rifle and never will simply because I believe there is better out there and for a much more affordable price. The RM4 is a prime example of that. Either way lets not get too off topic and agree to disagree I think we can both see where each of us are coming from! 

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Right just been shooting both CQB and the scout side by side and with the SP100 spring in the scout the recoil is about a third that of the stock CQB. I think I'll try to take a couple of coils if the original spring. Nothing drastic and see what that does otherwise it's square one again. If I can get it to 75% the CQB I'll be happy.

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Really thats interesting, recoil is fairly similar for me. Of course you need to expect a drop due the the weaker spring but not that much. Seems strange its alright for me but not you. Keep us updated on clipping the spring though! Fingers crossed for you buddy.

 

 

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If you order the CQB piston cylinder (with larger port) from kwa and put this in the Scout you will leave your recoil intact and lower your fps to that of the cqb. The piston cylinder is the only internal difference between the two. I've done this and can vouch for it. Had previously tried the cut lower-powered spring and wasn't happy with the loss of recoil.

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Can I order direct from KWA if I'm in the UK?

 

I'd say that I prefer the scouts looks to be honest deadmeat but the 2/3 loss in recoil is a bit of a killer for me :(. However, accuracy wise they're on a par. Just as it stands the CQB kicks more so it needs more shot to shot adjustment from the shooter.

 

I'm going to try to order a piston then I think quentj, thanks. :)

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Can I order direct from KWA if I'm in the UK?

I'd say that I prefer the scouts looks to be honest deadmeat but the 2/3 loss in recoil is a bit of a killer for me :(. However, accuracy wise they're on a par. Just as it stands the CQB kicks more so it needs more shot to shot adjustment from the shooter.

Dammit, well that puts a spanner in the works for me! I too prefer the size and look of the Scout and we all know that looks count! But then again if you get any success from the KWA Pro shop for the piston, that would be a result! Fingers crossed for you!
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See weird thing is my stock CQB RM4 was shooting 365 so there must be some different batches with different piston cylinders.. I'd also he interested in ordering another one. Phil if you do get through to KWA and want to split the postage over to the UK drop me a line.

 

 

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See weird thing is my stock CQB RM4 was shooting 365 so there must be some different batches with different piston cylinders.. I'd also he interested in ordering another one. Phil if you do get through to KWA and want to split the postage over to the UK drop me a line.

 

 

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No worries. Will do :)

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Their web store doesn't allow shipping outside of the US but I've pinged them an email now so fingers crossed they'll be as good as everyone says.

 

KWA are easy, they're in California so work out when they're open and hit them up on Skype. Way faster than emailing back and forth.

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A life? There's your problem right there.

 

They're open between 5 pm and 2:30 am UK time during the week if you want to try. They are a nice bunch, and so far my orders have always arrived in around two weeks, skipped customs so far too.

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