I Threw Back A Live Thunder Bee

[hotelkilo]

ive played at copehill with 3 different organisers and they all used the same format for grenades

 

just saying

[hotelkilo]

+ the mall 

 

all of these sites have had the same basic rules about not fkn with other ppls stuff, not kicking it, moving it etc

 

just saying

[Danke]

What if you bat it back at them? Is that still "cricket"?

[hotelkilo]

and yet this site that u cite.. see what i did there? this lightfighter place that has been closed for several years. ur assertion is that they had a different arrangement for grenades than all those other sites that i haved cited.. wow this is getting kinda exciting

[JCheeseright]

In fairness, the guy who kicked back the grenade has nothing to prove either. Had it been against the rules of the site he'd have been called out on it at the time and it wouldn't make for an amusing anecdote.

 

Bristol airsoft (the courthouse) has no rule against returning pyro, neither do skirmish exeter, Warminster airsoft or mad mommas airsoft in Plymouth. They obviously all recommend that you don't pick up live pyro but as for giving it a boot to return to sender I've never been specifically told not to do it. Your argument is based entirely on your own experiences and as such only holds water within the bounds of those experiences, for the rest of us you're just coming off as a bit daft.

[hotelkilo]

do any of these sites have a rule about not touching other peoples stuff ingame?

[hotelkilo]

for the rest of us you're just coming off as a bit daft.

 

its a discussion forum, not a popularity contest

[AceOfSkulls]

Haha That's pretty pedantic!

 

If they care that much about their property they shouldn't be throwing it

 

If it's a thunder flash, its cardboard tube.

 

If its a dyno then its a chunk of metal I've just had thrown at me and it's designed to be thrown. A kick isn't going to hurt it.

[hotelkilo]

In fairness, the guy who kicked back the grenade has nothing to prove either. Had it been against the rules of the site he'd have been called out on it at the time and it wouldn't make for an amusing anecdote.

 

 

 

your logic here is flawed, if we believe you then there is no such thing as a cheat who gets away with it, bc anyone cheating WILL ALWAYS be called out on it = false im affraid

 

ie, its possible that he was cheating and not called out on it

 

just saying

[Joshua_Rose]

I could have said there was a marshal outside laughing too, and the bloke who threw it, and "died" by it didn't cry at the time either.

 

But, that might not be true either!

 

[renegadecow]

The reason behind rules like not handling active pyro and other possibly explosive devices is for safety reasons and not because people might act like they have a lit flare up their butt when someone touches their disposable stuff. It can blow up in your hand, simple as that. Going against it would be like choosing not to use mouth protection so you don't have much right to complain when you lose a tooth, or in this case claim insurance over your lacerated hand after picking up a grenade. Arguing that you shouldn't tamper with a thrown grenade because the other guy paid good money for a little flash and smoke is, well... arguing for arguments sake. Plus you end up sounding like you have a lit flare up your butt.

[hotelkilo]

The reason behind rules like not handling active pyro and other possibly explosive devices is for safety reasons and not because people might act like they have a lit flare up their butt when someone touches their disposable stuff. It can blow up in your hand, simple as that. Going against it would be like choosing not to use mouth protection so you don't have much right to complain when you lose a tooth, or in this case claim insurance over your lacerated hand after picking up a grenade. Arguing that you shouldn't tamper with a thrown grenade because the other guy paid good money for a little flash and smoke is, well... arguing for arguments sake. Plus you end up sounding like you have a lit flare up your butt.

 

i disagree, those rules about not tampering with pyro are there for more than 1 reason i'd say, they are as much for the sake of gameplay and the spirit of fairplay as well as the obvious safety concerns.

 

its not my argument about the usage of disposable pyro, those are the rules at all of the sites i have played at.

 

if someone has just spent £3 to try to eliminate me from the game then my interference with their pyro should/would be seen as cheating.

 

the game rules say i can run away from incoming grenades but not touch them or tamper with them in any way these are not rules of my making, these are rules currently in place at several active airsoft sites.

 

the rules about not touching other peoples stuff are there to prevent stealing im my experience. more than once i have seen a helpful airsofter pocket someone elses blank firing grenade, it has happened to me and my property. i have seen these same helpful airsofters thrown off the site for failing to return a device they had pocketed earlier. i have seen whole roomfuls of players SEARCHED, just because 1 of them has taken something that they should not have and obviously from an organisers point of view searching the customers is bad form.

 

so the common/almost universal rule is " DO NOT TOUCH OTHER PEOPLES GEAR WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION"

 

mr rose's amusing 'story' of how everyone chuckled at his antics and that he wasnt actually cheating is just a 'story'. the site closed years ago and that makes a quick check of the rules with any of the marshalls a tad tricky..nice story brah

 

in my opinion, anyone interfering with another players equipment is either displaying a total lack of sportmanship or is actively cheating.

 

i'll leave the detective work to columbo in future, or mebbe scooby doo

[renegadecow]

in my opinion, anyone interfering with another players equipment is either displaying a total lack of sportmanship or is actively cheating.

That's fine and all, but do understand that the OP is not in the UK and the site he was playing in didn't have those rules against grenades otherwise the marshals would have called it out or at the very least have the guy who threw the grenade in the first place complain about said cheating.

[Ryaw]

Just to clarify, my home site has no such rule about not being able to return pyro to sender, so I think the original response about calling it blatant cheating should have been worded much better and in a less confrontational way, such as "At the sites that I have played at we had a rule that nobody was allowed to interfere with pyro once deployed. That would be considered cheating at those sites." and leave it at that. Instead it's turned into another slanging match involving the person(s) who I've seen turn threads into this kind thing before, sadly.

 

My personal view, is that if someone lights a disposable grenade and fails to sufficiently cook it, so that it can't be redirected back at them, then that's just something that they'll learn about...............similar if the bloody things go off in my hand........a very sore learning point for me.

 

In my circumstances (same scenario each time pretty much), the opfor was on the other side of a wooden wall (no roof), which we both had our backs to. I clearly heard him light the grenade and immediately lob it over. Knowing that I had a good 5-6 or so seconds, I made the calculated call (albeit risky and in hindsight a bit stupid considering the potential damage to my hand) to pick it up and post it back over the wall to him, which killed him, much to my own and everyone else's amusement.

 

Had it gone off in my hand it would have been my own stupid fault. However, it was not cheating at my site and unless the rules specifically state not to interfere with deployed grenades, I don't see how doing this is illogical or considered dishonourable.

 

I'm quite happy to guess that real world operators don't just throw a grenade into a room, once the pin is pulled, without cooking it slightly, in case the opfor throws/kicks it back to them? Seems logical to cook your grenades a bit first first, no?

 

Had I heard the guy cook his grenade, I would not have picked it up.

 

I for one am happy for an opfor to return my grenades to me if they think that they can do so safely. If it becomes a rule, I won't touch them.

[Inari]

This thread is hilarious.

 

Since when is someone allowed to 'buy' kills? Just because someone has spent money on a grenade does not entitle them to a 'kill' - it merely allows them to enter it into play, and once it's in play then anything can happen. It is a little different concerning reusable grenades, as booting them (particularly Thunder B's) can actually cause damage; the hinges on the spoon are plastic, and when you kick something, it tends to move faster than a throw so damage is more likely to occur. I can understand people being touchy over someone damaging their property...but at the same time it is a risk you take by entering it into play.

 

It is not unsporting to throw back or kick someone's grenade. It is unsporting to enter in a game changing device with rules that basically guarantee kills.

 

Every site has their own rules, so making sweeping statements about such rules is not exactly clever. For every site that has that rule, another doesn't. It is in effect a moot point, inarguable...or at least not worth arguing. The facts are it is not wise to pick up a pyro grenade, as it can go off in your hand. It is not wise to pick up a thunder B, as it can go off in your hand (unpleasant). However that doesn't make it cheating (unless it is expressly stated in the rules), nor does it mean it is unsporting. Kicking a grenade is less dangerous, but on reusable grenades you can cause more damage...so if you would not like it done to your property, don't do it to someone else's (ah, good old Bambi morality lessons)

[FireKnife]

So is there a hard and fast rule at the OPs site that says 'you can't throw back pyro'?

 

If no then it is a funny story and it could have gone a lot worse but that is the risk the OP took.

 

If yes then the OP flouted the rules of the site and should have been told for doing so.

 

Any item you take into a game is designed for a purpose. If a rule doesn't exist and a person decides to kick back a lit pyro or similar then fair enough. Sure if it was a re-useable I might think 'well it is someone elses kit' but as they are designed to be hurled around anyway I don't see the real issue. Same as a RIF is in a game to be used and batted around so is re-useable pyro.

 

And hotelkilo calm it down a bit. Every thread you pop up in you seem to develop some random counter argument that isn't really relative and is based on opinion sold as fact rather than actual fact. Plus the random pseudo-insults don't help your case, they just make you come off as irritating, childish and somewhat bitter about everything.

 

'FireKnife'

[hotelkilo]

And hotelkilo calm it down a bit. Every thread you pop up in you seem to develop some random counter argument that isn't really relative and is based on opinion sold as fact rather than actual fact. Plus the random pseudo-insults don't help your case, they just make you come off as irritating, childish and somewhat bitter about everything.

 

'FireKnife'

 

 

1) i'd like to refer you to my earlier point about this being a discussion forum not a popularity contest

2) who are you to tell me how to behave in a perfectly calm discussion about whatever? if u have a problem report me to a moderator. fireknife, you are not a moderator so please keep your suggestions on how you think i should behave to yourself. you are not the thought police, pls stfu, if only for 1 day..

[hotelkilo]

and btw, nothing i have said is a slight on the op who has already said that he acted without thinking, not ideal but hardly a hanging offence..

 

 

think i already addressed this fireknife, tnx for your input

[FireKnife]

think i already addressed this fireknife, tnx for your input

 

Normally I would just ignore people like yourself that can't take constructive criticism well but here you go:

 

mr rose's amusing 'story' of how everyone chuckled at his antics and that he wasnt actually cheating is just a 'story'. the site closed years ago and that makes a quick check of the rules with any of the marshalls a tad tricky..nice story brah

 

That to me feels like an attempt to pointlessly bring up an issue. While you may have posted 'no offence to the OP', the OP isn't the only other person involved in this conversation apart from you. However given your conduct in previous threads this is not really that suprising to be honest, I would have thought you might have cottoned on to that. As for reporting you to a moderator I thought best to make a point of pointing out how your behaviour could be taken as offensive by others and see if you would think 'hmm, ok fair enough, might just watch what I am typing next time' rather than an excuse to ramble on about things. I am not the thought police, nor for once am I the target or instigator of such comments but it was as said an attempt to see if you can see what you have done wrong without using harsh language and dropping to a mud slinging level.

 

But as it appears you can't take any form of criticism seriously without resorting to such an attitude I will refrain from replying to you in future and ignore all posts that you put up. If that is the way you want it I don't mind, if you think I am causing an issue by all means contact the moderators and see what they say but for the meantime perhaps just take a look at what you post from the other persons perspective and see how you come off to them. I know some of my posts can be taken wrongly and when ppointed out I take that on board, perhaps it just might help you to do the same?

 

'FireKnife'

[hotelkilo]

this is what u will find if you read the intsructions on any disposable pyro, (i am using a tlsfx mk5 thunderflash as an example)

 

1) remove cap, strike surface of cap on fuse

2) drop immediately and retreat 5 metres

 

functions with a flash and bang, not to be used by minors

do not use outside of game areas

do not approach unexploded units

 

now the marshalls, in order to comply with site insurance, must make sure that u understand the instructions. that means that they cannot specifically allow you to appraoch unexploded units because the instructions specifically tell you not to return to unexploded units

 

these (fireknife dear) are what is known as facts, FACTS. 

 

in order to use any pyro on a site you must comply with the site insurance, the site insurance will stipulate that you must follow all instructions for any unit/device/pyro being used, pretty sure thats a fact as well

[hotelkilo]

Normally I would just ignore people like yourself that can't take constructive criticism well but here you go:

 

 

 by all means contact the moderators and see what they say 

 

'FireKnife'

 

 

firstly, no you wouldnt. your post count and daily activity might suggest that you are someone much more likely to just talk nonesense and burgle everyone elses time.

 

secondly, i have and we will.

 

thirdly, i look forward to your response to my once again providing some facts which support my position and you having no facts at all to support yours

[Inari]

If someone approaches a lit pyro grenade, and injures themselves, then they will be unable to claim off of the site's insurance due to themselves being the "author of their own misfortune" i.e. they made a choice to do something dangerous, and it backfired. The sites do not need to worry about that - it would be thrown out of court, simply by stating the obvious

"Hang on, you picked up a lit grenade...why?"

"To win, your honour"

 

PS: Hotelkilo - many of my airsoft guns have come with instructions that state "Never use AEG to shoot at people or animals" so does that mean sites cannot exist, as I am disobeying the instruction manual of my gun by shooting at another person?

[FireKnife]

Don't need to quite what you have put again.......

 

Ok as you have posted 'facts' I will respond. You have laid down the point so lets see how it goes.

 

Ok firstly while you are correct in that pyro do indeed contain such instructions they are not how the item is used. I am quite sure if you (as a marshal) told a player that to deploy a pyrotechnic device by striking it then DROPPING it (as per the instructions you are so rigidly following state) on the floor, in front of them and walking away they would either not buy it from you or tell you to 'sod off' or words to that affect.

 

The same goes for the fact that, as Inari pointed out, many airsoft guns come with a sticker that quite literally states not to use the gun to shoot at humans, full stop. It doesn't mention eye-pro, it doesn't mention sites, it doesn't mention using it in a skirmish and here is the faltering point in your argument. It doesn't have to as intelligent people that can understand the safety risks involved and the potential ways to combat them have made up a set of rules in an area that is in compliance with the local authorities and those consenting to play to allow these items to be used in a game like scenario.

 

The same goes for pyrotechnic items. Rules have been set down that allow them to be used in a game without endangering the players so long as they use common sense. Sure the OP didn't exactly use the best judgement but as no rules existed in the game he was playing with others he saw a chance and played his hand. He knew the risks involved and had he been injuried he would have understood it was his own fault.

 

All you have done here is take the first thing that you can come across that is a fact and tried to use it to stabalise a floundering argument without actually thinking of what you have put. While indeed you are correct that pyro does indeed state that it should be topped, struck and dropped it is not actually helping your own case and thus you haven't really proved anything.

 

Now based on the fact that two people have presented a counter argument (and looking back on this thread so have many others to the points you have put out) what exactly is your response going to be? You can either take time, form a valid response and post it, reply in an all knowing tone and see how far that gets you, accept that you might have been bested and be quiet or just stop posting all together and let this lie. If you can present a valid argument with correct English and form it thinking of counter arguments I and others might read it and reply in a less imposing tone.

 

And finally yes I may be a very active member but that doesn't make a difference to this discussion. Everyones opinions are valid and you would do well to take that on board seeing as you have disregarded many of the ones presented to you and others you have simply given a rather nasty retort to. I expect to see a post from you and if it is well worded, thought out and ready for a counter or accepting of the issues then I will reply to it but if it is badly worded and full of insults I will just ignore it and finally take that stance against all of your posts. Please, prove me wrong, I would really like to see it.

 

'FireKnife'

[hotelkilo]

If someone approaches a lit pyro grenade, and injures themselves, then they will be unable to claim off of the site's insurance due to themselves being the "author of their own misfortune" i.e. they made a choice to do something dangerous, and it backfired. The sites do not need to worry about that - it would be thrown out of court, simply by stating the obvious

"Hang on, you picked up a lit grenade...why?"

"To win, your honour"

 

PS: Hotelkilo - many of my airsoft guns have come with instructions that state "Never use AEG to shoot at people or animals" so does that mean sites cannot exist, as I am disobeying the instruction manual of my gun by shooting at another person?

 

i dont know, funny u should suddenly take an interest in my opinion

 

however in the instruction manual of the latest aeg i bought it says do not shoot at animals or at people without the proper protection, so it implies that shooting at people who are wearing the proper protection is ok.

 

it also says not to be used by under 18 year olds, my son might have something to say about that..seeing as its his gun..

 

with regard to your point about someone approaching a lit pyro. i wasnt talking about an insurance claim, or a court case. i was just stating that the insurance policy will be quite specific about the use of pyrotechnics and that would almost certainly include something like 'always follow the manufacturers instructions' its very much about how the staff behave when selling pyro to players and then how they let that pyro be used in games. you can either follow the instructions or not

[hotelkilo]

Ok as you have posted 'facts' I will respond. You have laid down the point so lets see how it goes.

 

Ok firstly while you are correct in that pyro do indeed contain such instructions they are not how the item is used. I am quite sure if you (as a marshal) told a player that to deploy a pyrotechnic device by striking it then DROPPING it (as per the instructions you are so rigidly following state) on the floor, in front of them and walking away they would either not buy it from you or tell you to 'sod off' or words to that affect.

 

The same goes for the fact that, as Inari pointed out, many airsoft guns come with a sticker that quite literally states not to use the gun to shoot at humans, full stop. It doesn't mention eye-pro, it doesn't mention sites, it doesn't mention using it in a skirmish and here is the faltering point in your argument. It doesn't have to as intelligent people that can understand the safety risks involved and the potential ways to combat them have made up a set of rules in an area that is in compliance with the local authorities and those consenting to play to allow these items to be used in a game like scenario.

 

The same goes for pyrotechnic items. Rules have been set down that allow them to be used in a game without endangering the players so long as they use common sense. Sure the OP didn't exactly use the best judgement but as no rules existed in the game he was playing with others he saw a chance and played his hand. He knew the risks involved and had he been injuried he would have understood it was his own fault.

 

All you have done here is take the first thing that you can come across that is a fact and tried to use it to stabalise a floundering argument without actually thinking of what you have put. While indeed you are correct that pyro does indeed state that it should be topped, struck and dropped it is not actually helping your own case and thus you haven't really proved anything.

 

Now based on the fact that two people have presented a counter argument (and looking back on this thread so have many others to the points you have put out) what exactly is your response going to be? You can either take time, form a valid response and post it, reply in an all knowing tone and see how far that gets you, accept that you might have been bested and be quiet or just stop posting all together and let this lie. If you can present a valid argument with correct English and form it thinking of counter arguments I and others might read it and reply in a less imposing tone.

 

And finally yes I may be a very active member but that doesn't make a difference to this discussion. Everyones opinions are valid and you would do well to take that on board seeing as you have disregarded many of the ones presented to you and others you have simply given a rather nasty retort to. I expect to see a post from you and if it is well worded, thought out and ready for a counter or accepting of the issues then I will reply to it but if it is badly worded and full of insults I will just ignore it and finally take that stance against all of your posts. Please, prove me wrong, I would really like to see it.

 

'FireKnife'

 

 

1) you can drop the pyro behind a door, drop it behind a barrier, drop it in a bunker, there are many ways to 'drop' the device and still use it in games. 

 

2) i've already answered inaris point

 

3) repeat 1

 

4)waffle

 

5)more waffle

 

6)pointless waffle

 

wow, tnx for your input fireknife, you really helped