Cost effective starter hangun?

[Captain Leisure]

As a n00b it seems to me that pistols are too expensive in relation to AEGs.

 

Is there a decent cost-effective handgun that can be bought for reasonable money - new or used -to use for skirmishing?

 

I've browsed through the classifieds but don't really know what I'm looking for.

 

Does it have to be GBB or does electric cut  the mustard?

[Tinkerton]

For a 'starter' (or, more accurately, first ) pistol, the absolute best thing you could do would be to buy a stock Tokyo Marui GBB.

 

Pretty much anything newer than the SIG P226 and you should be golden (The P226 being where TM really really stepped up their game).

 

You should be able to pick up a used TM for around £100 or so, depending on what model and if there are any accessories, and provided you take care of it, it'll be the best skirmish weapon you'll ever have.

 

Trust me on that .

 

I've no first hand experience with some of the newer brands like WE or so, my current pistol is a TM 1911, and it's brilliant - first ever time without fail and its a bloody nail driver in regards of accuracy. I have previously had a KSC glock (pre system 7) and a KWA CZ-75 (same). Both of them were very nice, but they lacked the reliability and consistency of the TM's.

 

Saying that, I've heard very very good things about the newer KSC's with system 7 (whatever that is), so wait for someone else who's got first hand experience with them.

 

With regards to AEP's (electric pistols) they're... nice, but niche. due to size restraints they're usually lower power that the equivalent GBB, but they've usually (TM at least) have incredible HOP up units to balance this - so it might take a few more seconds for the BB to get to the target but it'll almost definitely be on target still. 

 

One of the best things to do, is next time you're skirmishing, being friendly and nice and polite (as always, I'm sure ) and ask some other players if they've got pistols if you can have a hold / fondle / grope / play (choice of word i'll leave up to you).

 

That way you can easily find out if the hand grip is the right size, or the wrong angle, or if the controls are just too far away without splashing the cash beforehand and being disappointed.

 

Hope that helps, Tink.

[Captain Leisure]

Cheers Tink

 

That's helpful. My local site is really friendly and people seem happy to lend guns to you for a shot or use in the skirmish. I'll have a good go at the next shoot on the 5th Jan.

 

TM seems the way to go.

[ED-SKaR]

As above, I'd heartily recommend a TM GBB. 1911/sig 226/PX4 are some of the best choices.

 

I've been using a TM 1911 that went through 30000 (Thirty thousand) rounds before it suffered a fault.

 

for ~£200 I got the gun, several mags and a kydex holster, that's good value conidering the number of rounds it's been through.

 

 

 

 

I would want to mention holsters, while I'm here. You want a kydex holster, don't buy a fabric holster.

the copies of the blackhawk cqc holsters are ~£15 and are brilliant, clean draw, clean re-holstering, hold the gun securely, and doesn't press on the slide or mag release like most fabric holsters do.

[Captain Leisure]

Cheers. That holster looks just right. I like the price too............

[jayrod]

The best bang for your buck any WE G series IMO.

[Roland1014]

The best bang for your buck any WE G series IMO.

Except they're made of WEcheese. If you want a Glock, get a TM or Stark.

[bettyblue84]

Personally Id go with the Nylon KJW M9,  £35 from taiwangun

 

I had one and never had a problem with it.  For that price its hard to beat.

[jayrod]

You must be joking spend more on a TM at least the Stark is cheaperbut they are all the same materials.

[Captain Leisure]

Thanks people.

 

Plenty more toys for me to check out.

[Bando]

TM m9a1 £130 on firesupport atm and if its anything like their old ones it will be a tack driver.

[3vi1-D4n]

Marui, if you can stand the price for its plastickyness.  Performance and durability is good but it IS plastic.   You can't go wrong with Marui as a first gun.

 

Any of the newer series of WEs (Not Hicapa, Not M1911, as they were poops) .e.g SIG P228/P229, M&P 9, XDM, Glocks, they aren't half bad.  Glocks are particularly cheeze on the earlier ones, but the others have been impressive.  Most impressed was the stainless finish TT33.  Smooth triggers, hard hitting, and great finish.  Recently WE has stepped up their game.

 

KJWs aren't bad, but they are unoptimised.  The SIG and glocks are subpar, their hicapas are ok. Both guzzles gas and doesn't give any more performance advantage. 

 

Otherwise KWA, well engineered, most are hard hitting except the SIG P226, but lacks accuracy.  

[NonEx]

If you are fuzzy about plastic guns and want something rock solid out of the box that just works the KJW pistols are a very good option over the WE ones.

 

In my own experience and from what I have seen/read/heard KJWs are work horses.

 

They don't look great but they are solid for the price.

 

If you can accept plastic and want the "best" get a stock TM pistol as per above.

 

WE's I would recommend more for the variety of models more than anything. As a first GBB it can put you off if you are unlucky.

[Gigueand]

Whichever gun you pick, make sure you spend a bit extra to get a decent polymer or kydex holster and mounting platform.

 

I see people all the time with $200 pistols in $15 holsters. It's especially bad when that $15 holster dumps their beautiful toy onto the pavement.

 

The old US-issue Bianchi M-12 is cheap and solid, but mounts using the ALICE clips.

 

Blackhawk! makes the extremely cheap and easy to find (at least in the US) SERPA holster.

 

G-Code also makes an excellent holster which is a step-above the SERPA. This is what I use, and I like the many different mounting options offered by G-Code.

 

If you're looking for something a bit more fancy, Safariland, Bravo Concealment and a dozen other high-end companies make very slick/fancy holster systems.

[Kenworth W900]

Tokyo Marui Glock 17

[Captain Leisure]

Thanks.

[Inari]

There is a lot to take into account when choosing a pistol; much more than selecting a rifle. Pistols are a lot more personal, as some designs look fantastic but just don't gel well in the hand, and what's the point in having it if you can't use it? When the gun is in your hand it should be easy to cycle through its controls - toggling the safety, pressing the magazine release, hitting the slide release etc. If you can't do that without having to adjust the pistol in your hand then it's never really going to be right for you.

 

I break down pistol choice into several categories, to try and identify what is most important to you and thus arrive at a more concrete decision, as opposed to a half-baked one made on a whim.

 

1.) Aesthetics (how does it look...unless it looks cool, move on )

2.) Ergonomics (no point in it looking good and handling like a gokart on ice)

3.) Quality of Replication (if realism is your thing, then this is especially important - materials used, features incorporated etc)

4.) Build quality (how solid it is)

5.) Accuracy (BB's go where you're aiming)

6.) Consistency (your grouping - shots stay close together)

7.) Efficiency (shots-to-fill ratio)

8.) Performance (combination of accuracy, consistency & efficiency)

9.) Budget (it can have everything you want...but unless you can afford it, it's useless)

10.) Manufacturer (like it or not, there is a bit of prestige involved, on top of the fact that certain manufacturers have lower lemon rates etc)

 

 

It is very unusual for an out of the box gun to have everything that you're looking for, but it can have most things...you will need to make concessions in some areas of course, but you just stack your priorities i.e. whatever you want most. So do you want an accurate, consistent and efficient system, that is not very realistic (e.g. a non-blowback fixed-slide pistol), or would you prefer a realistic, comfortable and well put-together piece? Obviously that's not the only choice, but you get the idea - you can't get everything  

 

TM pistols are great performers - due to their plastic slides they are quite gas efficient, and their magazines are better designed than most giving extra shots-per-fill over clone mags (e.g. M9, PX4 & 1911A1). Some are more realistic than others, such as the Five-SeveN and Glock-series (more forgivable having plastic pistols on guns that are primarily plastic, unlike the 1911 which just feels a little wrong). Their sights are more in-line with where the BB's are going, whereas the clone guns seem to just have glued them on wherever without any care

Not only that, but they have a good quality hop up rubber, and as such they tend to out-range many rifles. In general they're better put together, and built out of good quality materials. This is why they are so widely recommended - they work, and work well.

 

Ergonomics are down to the model the gun is based on i.e. H&K style magazine release, Glock style disassembly, SIG-series decocker, 1911 beavertail etc. This is the most personal choice of them all, and definitely the most important. You need to get out, hold the guns and see how they feel. Many guns have nuances that render them inoperable for a great deal of people...grip size of the Five-SeveN, slack-grip on the XDM (beavertail safety), Slide-mounted safety on Beretta series pistols, or gargantuan size of the Desert Eagle & MK23 SOCOM. Many modern pistols have adjustable grips (via additional backstraps) to help in this, but the best solution is still to hold the gun.

 

The build quality and material used has a great bearing on the reliability of the pistol, as well as the overall feel. KJW use quite a hard-wearing paint on their slide & frames, which is a stark contrast to WE's...which sheds when you look at it funny. TM use a good quality plastic, but turns a little sheeny after a while. HFC's finish is pretty poor - the paint wears off ridiculously quick, and the metal underneath isn't the best. KWC are a good all-rounder, though typically is quite scratched straight from the factory, though the metal and paint are well matched. Metal is quite weak in certain areas, so certain aspects can wear out faster than others...not ideal. Marushin's plastic is quite nice, and their finish is rather good in most areas, though there are exceptions (CZ75 shell ejector anyone? Bleugh)

 

For starters you want a gun with minimal maintenance, very little that can go wrong, and something that's easy to work on. 1911's are quite basic, so they're a good starting point. The new M9A1 from Marui is superb...great piece, though suffers from the old design of magazine. The Five-SeveN has a much larger gas reservoir, and is still to date the most accurate pistol I've ever used. Some people have had exploding slide issues, so be aware of that! WE/HK3P Glock series are pretty solid as well, though can have hammer & BBU issues...very easy to fix though, even for an absolute beginner. Personally I'd recommend:

 

1.) KWC 1911A1 (co2, GBB, solid & reliable)

2.) WE/HK3P Glock 17 (green gas, metal slide, pretty efficient & decently accurate)

3.) TM M9A1 (green gas, great performer & reliable)

 

Hope that helps!

[hotelkilo]

Whichever gun you pick, make sure you spend a bit extra to get a decent polymer or kydex holster and mounting platform.

 

I see people all the time with $200 pistols in $15 holsters. It's especially bad when that $15 holster dumps their beautiful toy onto the pavement.

 

The old US-issue Bianchi M-12 is cheap and solid, but mounts using the ALICE clips.

 

Blackhawk! makes the extremely cheap and easy to find (at least in the US) SERPA holster.

 

G-Code also makes an excellent holster which is a step-above the SERPA. This is what I use, and I like the many different mounting options offered by G-Code.

 

If you're looking for something a bit more fancy, Safariland, Bravo Concealment and a dozen other high-end companies make very slick/fancy holster systems.

 

i see this all the time as well. if u want your sidearm to always be there, and ready to go, then get a decent holster. a lanyard wont hurt either.

 

i have 2 of the bianchi mil spec holsters and they're great for retention (so long as the gun fits and the holster is closed) and they also excel at protecting your pistol until u need it.

 

if you like to do a bit of a stealthy crawl thru the undergrowth or run around in cqb smashing into walls and doors then full flap mil spec holsters are great for everything except speed of presentation.. ie actually drawing your pistol from a full flap holster is a little time consuming compared to say a modern safariland.

[hotelkilo]

As a n00b it seems to me that pistols are too expensive in relation to AEGs.

 

Is there a decent cost-effective handgun that can be bought for reasonable money - new or used -to use for skirmishing?

 

I've browsed through the classifieds but don't really know what I'm looking for.

 

Does it have to be GBB or does electric cut  the mustard?

 

 

im not a noob and i'd say that most pistols are priced relatively to aegs when u realise what u are asking for. a rapid fire delivery system that is only a fraction of the size of an aeg with its big ole gearbox and an even bigger battery. when u consider that an aep is essentially just a miniaturised AEG then the prices of those begin to seem reasonable.

 

gbb's involve an entirely different system of propulsion that rely on relative differences in pressure between compressed gas and normal air, the tolerances in these systems have to be quite tight in order to function at all, let alone over and over, AND they have to maintain these tight tolerances though dramatic changes in operational temperatures. we are expecting just as effective performance throughout this whole temperature change cycle, until the very end when the gbb will just freeze up and vent all the gas - at that point i usually say to myself 'oh yeah, physics'

 

yes there is, but what i suggest you buy might not be the best choice of handgun for you.

 

browsing the classifieds will not help that much, yes there are some handgun for sale there but not many(limits choice) and secondly any potential seller is looking for the buyer to prove an entitelement to buy and this might hamper you slightly if u are a really new player.

 

if u choose a gbb get a plastic one if u want it to work all year round, if u live in a really cold place get a aep, i dont really like aeps but i cant say that i ever seen one that would be a bad buy. they work, they have adequate range and power. the mags are a pain but with enuf mags and batts u can skirmish with an aep either pistol or smg.

 

inari certainly has some good advice but i'd personally say that reliability should be number 1 on the list, intermittent performers are no fun at all. as far as is possible for an airsoft gun it should go 'bang' everytime u pull the trigger.

 

my advice is always the same in these situations, buy whichever handgun/aeg that you would like to be holding in a picture of u holding a gun, cos thats the one u are going to end up with anyway. if u like 1911's get one of those, if u love the look of glocks then get only a glock will satisfy that urge. just make sure you get a handgun from a reliable manufacturer and know the limits of the item, then go have fun with it.

 

if i absolutely had to recommend a gbb to someone right now i'd say get a TM hi-cappa, some uk retailers are selling them quite cheap bc they have quite a few to shift. also any reliable TM product (and most of them are amazingly reliable) will always command a fair resale price. personally i'd say that a brand new TM 5.1 hi-cappa from a uk retailer for £115 is a bargain.

[Wingman]

1.KJW 1911- (the A1 or MEU) very dependable and TM compatable so parts and magazines always available. Solid build and gives you a full metal pistol right away (with TM your looking at expensive up-grades down the road). Both my 1911A1 and MEU are very accurate.

 

2.KJW G Series-Not as pretty as a TM but still a workhorse. Some great new slides have come out if you need to have correct trades (they are not cheap, but they do make the KJW look nice). Dependability and accuracy are as the 1911's above.

 

3.TM PX4 Storm-In my opinion TM's best pistol for awhile. Nice features and compact (a nice change from the M9's). Usual TM quality. Excellent accuracy and range for its barrel length. Throw on some night sights and it's super tactical.

 

4.TM Detonics-Ok ok, so it's not the full sized 1911A1 or a MEU. It can still use their magazines as spares and accuracy is still quite good for it's short barrel. I've seen some of these up-graded with amby safeties, MEU style triggers and magwells and they look pretty sweet. Have done some of that on mine and it's pretty nice.

 

5.KJW Mk1-everyone should have one of these as a back-up in their gearbag. Best bang for the buck. Throw in a bunch of spare magazines and your good to go. The trigger is very hard (it's a non-blowback), but I've had near 400 fps on warm days with green gas/propane and 270-280 using Duster. Accuracy is pretty good (clean out the barrel when you get it) and use .28-.30's or you shots go straight up quick! Range is pretty good as well. They have few parts and really priced nice (my latest one cost $58.00 US brand new).

[Captain Leisure]

Thanks hotelkilko/wingman

 

A whole bunch more of useful info there for me to sift through.

 

I'll get my UKARA stamped at the next shoot although I've been a site member long enough to have a defence.

 

That KJW MkI is only £23 at Taiwangun - serious bargain?

[Lone_Bullet]

Agree with the KJW 1911 or MEU ( preferably MEU for better sights ). VEry good value for money. Spare parts are available from KJWorks itself, and quite cheap!

 

TM Glock, 1911, Hi-Capa are all good workhorses with nice upgrades for when you get to know them better.

TM PX4 same, but without the support.  

 

TM and KJW might not be awesome in it's stock configuration, but they won't let you down when you take care of them.

 

Ps. For extra awesomeness but much quicker wear: KJWorks with CO2. Big bang, normal FPS ( 330 ), repair GBB every 6-9 months...

[Mike_West]

TM 1911s and clones thereof are solid guns. Even the Bell 1911 is serviceable (it ran even with a busted cylinder return spring).

[Hopna]

I own a KJW P226 and it feels really sturdy. It's cheap and it works. Also, mags can often be found at a low price and I thought it was TM compatible, although I'm not completely sure about the latter. Anyway, great pistol for a low price.

[Captain Leisure]

I own a KJW P226 and it feels really sturdy. It's cheap and it works. Also, mags can often be found at a low price and I thought it was TM compatible, although I'm not completely sure about the latter. Anyway, great pistol for a low price.

 

 

It says on the Wolfarmouries website about this pistol:

 

Please note:

Due to the full metal construction, this pistol will only operate well in warm weather. It is better suited for collectors/ display purposes than airsoft skirmishing

 

Does this mean that I'm better off with a plastic gas gun seeing as I live in the NE of Scotland?