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Benefit Street; Channel 4 Documentry Series.


Habakure

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I believe that whatever money I earn off my own hard work and sweat equity, stays in my pocket.

Try doing that in the uk and you will fail badly . Tax , rates , bills , parking permits / fines , council tax , rent / mortgage will eat chunks out of it unless you buy a caravan and live a gypsy lifestyle !
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Living as we do in a relatively civilised and financially viable (remember, I said relatively) society, I think it is only right that we provide support and assistance to those that are unable to find paid employment. However, why can't those people give something back? If someone is claiming Job Seeker's Allowance, they are looking for work aren't they? The clue's in the title, after all. So why not make it a condition of the payment that they carry out a minimum number of hours work each week for the local council - filling pot holes, clearing up rubbish, whatever is required. I realise some may feel this is menial work and beneath them, but that's fine - they get a reduced benefit, the bulk of which is paid in food vouchers. That way, they can still eat, although paying off Bright House for the 50" TV, etc. may prove tricky.

 

The problem, I believe, is that too many feel they are entitled to everything, and expect it to be handed to them on a plate. My son is 17, currently studying for his A levels, and has 2 jobs. One is a cleaning job at his school - 2 hours after school, so he's finished by 5:45 - and for that he receives £300 per month. All pupils entering 6th form have the opportunity to apply for one of about 6-8 positions, but there wasn't even a waiting list. I asked him why - "most won't even consider it because it's cleaning."

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the ppl claiming the benefits didnt create the system, or the rules, or the loopholes. they are merely availing themselves of a system put in place by democratically elected politicians.

 

if u want to blame anyone perhaps blame a certain government for increasing the benefits payouts to such huge proportions, for example this quote is from the guardian a few months ago

 

"The welfare state is a big part of British family life, with 20.3 million families receiving some kind of benefit (64% of all families), about 8.7 million of them pensioners. For 9.6 million families, benefits make up more than half of their income (30% of all families), around 5.3 million of them pensioners"

 

if u are goin to decide that people below a certain financial level deserve benefits then only some kind of nazi would then tell those poor people EXACTLY what they can and cannot spend their money on

 

these so called 'scroungers' that everyone seems to vilify are just people like everyone else, a lot of them are people that make poor decisions, so what?

 

clearly the major decisions are being made by others that are/were democratically elected, want to blame anyone, blame the voters

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Moaning about people thieving and not bothering to find a job, is fair game in my book. Which is what made me start this thread in the first place. People who appeared on this programme have been caught braking the law and then complained about being caught. It's a small minority, no one is disputing that. The point is, some of these people have been caught by channel 4 robbing and other criminal activities. They then have the cheek to say "hey, I didn't agree to be caught braking the law, that's unfair".

 

I think it's very unfair, that we have a Documentry that showcases the worst people on benefits. But at the same time, these people have been caught braking the law and or the agreement for some of their benefits. This Documentry will do more harm than good, for the public perception of people on job seekers/house benefit. But the fact remains, some of them broke the law or terms of their benefits and then moaned about being caught. It sums up some people's attitude to life "I want to do what ever I want, but it's wrong if you treat me the same, as I treat others".

 

This isn't a thread about benefits and how it applies to everyday life. It's a thread about a minority of people who have ruined the image of benefit claimants and turned that image into something the daily mail would be proud of.

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This isn't a thread about benefits and how it applies to everyday life. It's a thread about a minority of people who have ruined the image of benefit claimants and turned that image into something the daily mail would be proud of.

 

This, while I know that many people assume that benefit cheats make up something silly like 50% of the group (Mail readers etc) it is closer to 5% claim incorrectly and only about 1-2% overall know they are doing it illegally, the rest are just stumped by the system and not given a helping hand by the Government on how to pay it until they come round wanting to prosecute sadly.

 

 

Sorry?! Did I read that right fire knife? If someone's earns a certain amount then they should be forced to give a percentage to some random less well off person? No. Just no.

 

And who's salaries would you cap to £50k besides MP's? Where is the incentive for people to go out and better themselves? Ideas like that would drive innovation and talent out of the country as they'd go where they could earn a competitive wage. We would end up with a very sorry looking country (not that it isn't already but that's another discussion..) with the "capped" industries stagnating.

 

Just as an FYI I'm not a banker or MP so don't flame me!

 

Ok I will explain my point somewhat better. First we already pay money in the form of tax for the first situation. My point is to change how tax is paid so that instead of it going into a general Government or Council system it is instead directly paid to help others that when they in turn have reached the same status or have found work they no longer get it and must pay it on to the next person. I realise that my £25k cap was too low but still I think that the only way society helps is everyone pitches in. But in order for this to work we would then have to change housing prices, change the amount certain people earned that are pulling in too many bonuses, change the time limits on benefits claims and many, many other things. It is not a fool proof system but the whole general system needs a change and it has to start somewhere.

 

As for capping that will be limited to really only MPs, those that are oppointed to serve as representatives to the common people and not to just claim silly money tax free etc. They should have no need to be paid a salary in excess of £50,000 given all the other incentives they get. I am sure while many would say what incentive is that others would be a glad to have £50,000 and be a representative of the people. It may (not saying will) drive out the issue we have in politics of it all being a bunch of sons of high-earners toying with the classes lower than them but it would be a good idea to try.

 

This is not some amazing fool proof system I am offering but just ideas as to potential improvement. We need to change a lot to get the system working but it seems that we can change one thing and then something else will create the issue and that will need to be changed. We don't have an amazing system but aside from starting from scratch it would just feel like leak plugging.

 

Anyway just trying to expand on my point, I know some will and won't agree as we are in a democracy but for people to think only for themselves is how we ended up in this way. Benefits cheats are out for no-one but themselves as are the high-class politicians. Those are the attitudes we need rid of in my mind.

 

'FireKnife'

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As our economy is highly interdependent on the leverage of debit / credit, and one of the markers for economic growth is tied to the banking industry, which through there mismanagement forced hundreds of thousands of professionals, skilled and semi skilled labour onto benefits, coupled with medelling by political parties have created the situation we are now in.

 

This with the added spin from the media we end up with what we have here, a talking point, based on heavily slanted facts and biased reports, what's never seen is the annoyance and outrage those getting by on benefits for those playing the system.

 

sent from wherever I am.

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That is an idea. Why do we not have an option for those of the massive majority on benefits for serious reasons to have a verbal exchange with those on benefits and riding the system to show them (and the rest of the people that have a go at anyone on benefits) how they feel.

 

Sure it changes nothing as some people (that little 1%) are just despicable and will never change but it will give those that need benefits a chance to have their say and be heard while showing how little they support the arrogant sods that ruin the system they need to give them help in times of need along with those that think all people on benefits are immediately 'scum'.

 

Hell I have been on JSA and I got stick for it as it made me a 'scrounger' according to some. I now just enjoy a little chuckle at them knowing that I am doing a lot better than those people but I am one of the lucky ones. I feel sorry for those that are still on it and still get the stick.

 

'FireKnife'

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There is nothing wrong with claiming JSA.

 

Living where i live though i would say 25% of people claiming it arent actually looking for work. Thats not hear say, thats from being in the job center, knowing people on JSA ect. My friend left education at 19, which he was in to claim grants, went on JSA and is still on it 8 years later. Ask him and he will say that he lies at his interviews and hasnt actually applied for a job they didnt make him apply for. Im not saying all people are like this, just one of many first hand examples.

 

I dobt complain how they spend there money , but i will tell them to look at themselves when they are straight up complaining they cant live on thr money they get with a needle in their arm, a can in their hand and a 50inch tv on the wall.

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The first thing that needs to be taken back to scratch is our sad excuse for job centres . Absolutly and totally useless at anything . Have seen the workings from an employers and job hunters point of view . Totally not fit for purpose .

They are demoralising for anyone hunting employment and even more pitifull from an employers point of view. . A total waste of taxpayers money as they stand at the moment .

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I was on JSA for a short period - the staff were OK but *fruitcage* me it was a bureucratic mess. I never actually recevied my benefit on a weekly basis - in the end they gave me a lump sum of £300 something. A week later I found a job!

 

edit:

 

on the subject of "giving something back" there are perverse disincentives - unless they ship you off to work for free in poundland. In my case whilst I was job hunting I did some volunteer work with macmillan - that was massively hard to get round them. I tried explaining that it was in both parties interests as I was getting work experience that would make me more likely to get a job and thus off job seekers. In the end the person I was volunteering with (who was an ex-human rights letter) got me the relevant bits of the law so I could read them the riot act. Then I got the money yadda yadda yadda.

 

In stark contrast to the usual image of benefits cheats I witnessed a very well to do couple (tweed, hunters wellys) sign on. As I waited for the bus I saw them hail a black cab!!

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I fully agree with Badbaz that the job centres need a good shake up. A couple of years ago a mate ended up on JSA and he showed me the paperwork for the jobs they told him to apply for. Not a single one was appropriate as they were either too far away (he doesn't drive so would have to rely on public transport and couldn't relocate due to already having debts with the council) or he wasn't qualified enough. Combine this with the attitude of staff assuming he was a scrounger just wanting his money and you get the picture. Luckily for him he found work by himself that was within easy walking distance

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To be honest I know that due to the way JSA is viewed and also how the Job Centres lack any quality at all it leads to some people that need the help of JSA but refuse it due to the lack of help and verbal abuse they get for it.

 

A lot needs to be changed. I recall going in and getting given about 25 jobs which were either cleaning, filling a shelf or working for a charity, all of which were under the heading of 'I.T.' which worried me.

 

Plus then you have jobs like Home Fundraising that I worked for. They rely on having a big sheet in JCs that makes it sound like a nice and easy job to do and simple pay along with transport. Sure they are raising for charity but I recall being treated like nothing while I was there. They even demanded that I still did my last five days as they were short staffed and they could change the notice period if they felt like it.

 

So to add to shaking up the JCs it is also the quality of what is given out by them too that should be looked at. Some companies exploit them anyway in the same way that fast food joints exploit immigrant workers as they know they can sadly.

 

Having been there I know how bad it is for some but the fact that some out there decide to exploit it shows that it needs to be seriously looked at too, both from a jobs given and people applying side of things.

 

'FireKnife'

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i once claimed 'unemployment benefit' about 20 years ago for about 6 months between jobs and im currently claiming jsa as a lone parent

 

my observations are thus

 

many years ago the job centre was a poorly run bureaucratic nightmare with mostly well meaning people trying to help others actually find work and navigate a complex benefits system to maximise their claim legitimately. 

 

nowadays the major bureaucracy is the system itself, a system which is almost impossible to understand even if u work for the benefits agencies, and the staff at job centres are seemingly there to hinder your claim or actively find reasons why you can not or should not be paid.

 

and as a recipient of jsa i actually agree that some form of active work should be undertaken for entitlement, like picking up rubbish in the parks or cleaning graffiti or working in a library if u cant be active etc. however a major problem with this is that any such scheme would devalue the jobs of the people who are already paid to pick up litter or work in libraries.. 

 

even if you could suddenly get all the jsa claiments to start working 8 hrs a week for their money, who would manage this arrangement and how would it actually work? looking at the total skive that community service is i can just see how much litter would actually get collected by those 'actively seeking employment'.. very little if any

 

there is no silver bullet to the benefits situation we face in this country

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Try doing that in the uk and you will fail badly . Tax , rates , bills , parking permits / fines , council tax , rent / mortgage will eat chunks out of it unless you buy a caravan and live a gypsy lifestyle !

 

Red highlighted - I wouldn't pay them. I would genuinely rather go to jail than give my hard earned to those/these feckers.

 

"But what about paying for services (NHS/Police aka filth/local etc)?" I hear some of you cry? Simple. I don't use them. If I get sick I utilise the power of an Al Murray gag "SNAP OUT OF IT!"

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So who collects your rubbish , lights your street , cleans your street . ?

So if you won't pay for these services that makes you part of the problem ...

What I disagree with is my taxes going to waste . Ie 12000 pound portraits and busts being made for egotistical mps . Council leaders . THat is our hard earned and payed taxes being used to feather some useless public servants egotistical traits . REPEAT !!!!! Our money !!!!!!

 

 

I actualy went into a local job centre a couple of weeks ago with my son to help him look for a job , and whilst I was browsing jobs I got asked if I was unemployed by a member of staff . When I said I was employed but browsing jobs I got told to leave because I already had a job . Couldn't make it up , what a joke !!

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"If a thousand citizens were not to pay their tax-bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State to commit violence and shed innocent blood. This is, in fact, the definition of a peaceable revolution, if any such is possible."

 

Naturally most such as google, amazon... most of the Conservative party dodge tax out of greed. But worth thinking about.
 
We hear alot about the hospitals and the roads but very little about the robots that the army use to kill "enemy combatants" (any male over the age of 15) but whatever...
 
edit:
 
to be on topic you can take a trip down benefits street here
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Red highlighted - I wouldn't pay them. I would genuinely rather go to jail than give my hard earned to those/these feckers.

 

"But what about paying for services (NHS/Police aka filth/local etc)?" I hear some of you cry? Simple. I don't use them. If I get sick I utilise the power of an Al Murray gag "SNAP OUT OF IT!"

 

 

Absolute horse manure. I'll believe this when you go around with a big sign round your neck saying 'I refuse ambulance treatment if I'm hurt, I refuse police assistance if I'm the victim of crime.'

 

If you don't want to make a contribution, swap with someone from Somailia who actually wants to be a part of our society and appreciates how good we have it.

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Absolute horse manure. I'll believe this when you go around with a big sign round your neck saying 'I refuse ambulance treatment if I'm hurt, I refuse police assistance if I'm the victim of crime.'

 

If you don't want to make a contribution, swap with someone from Somailia who actually wants to be a part of our society and appreciates how good we have it.

 

Perhaps said forum user is that insane.

 

But personally I would rather some money was spent on better things. If you get a parking fine it goes to repairing a local road, if you pay council tax the council actually fixes something etc but I would not refuse to pay the parking fine if I was in the wrong and I would not refuse council tax as I at least know some goes to the right places. To simply say 'I am not paying this' is just plain daft and makes that person part of the problem.

 

'FireKnife'

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Absolute horse manure. I'll believe this when you go around with a big sign round your neck saying 'I refuse ambulance treatment if I'm hurt, I refuse police assistance if I'm the victim of crime.'

If you don't want to make a contribution, swap with someone from Somailia who actually wants to be a part of our society and appreciates how good we have it.

 

 

hmmm I disagree You can get private medical cover inc ambulance & you could also get private security for your house/neighborhood. (I think some neighbourhood in Kent has this) If you were a victim of crime you could also hire a private detective, if you were so inclined... Getting a bit academic tho now..

 

I disagree with the second part of your post too. I know I haven't signed any social contract but I will let Creepingfear speak for himself. Society is not the same thing as the state.  When the vcra was passing through did you decide to write a letter to your MP or did you start an application for emigration? I think its legitimate for people to differ from the consensus without them having to be separated from their home, friends and family. 

 

but yeah.. benefits street  

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err.. I havn't opted out of anything!

 

and thanks to paye I couldn't anyway!

 

& in anycase that is supposition that education requires the state and taxes - which is not the case

 

edit again: you do know that even theoretically speaking you could pay your own way for everything you couldn't just stop paying taxes? You would go to jail...

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