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Hitler birthday cake and making boo boo on Radio


Habakure

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Okay. This is something that popped up today on my twitter feed.

 

Basically, a man goes on the radio and says something about how he admires Hitler. Now, he starts off by saying he likes the uniforms and how he commanded his troops etcetera. Then it goes a bit south.

 

He then says about there being two sides to a story and that butler was getting rid of the people who devalued the mark. When questions he response with "That's what I heard".

 

Tbh it's got me a bit flabbergasted and thinking, are there still people who think Hitler didn't kill millions of people by concentration camps?

 

Also, have a read of some of the comments on the website:-

http://www.thejournal.ie/hitler-birthday-cake-lar-brennan-kilkenny-1145742-Oct2013/

 

Am I over reacting to the comment about there being two sides to the story (not to mention some of the comments about how evil the allies were)?

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What I want to know is why it is OK to idolise Stalin. That *Ubar* killed more than Hitler could ever hope to have killed and yet you see people walking through the streets during protests and marches, holding aloft banners of him. If someone did that with banners of Hitler, they would be nicked.

 

And before anyone starts, I am not trying to justify or agree with Hitler.

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What I want to know is why it is OK to idolise Stalin. That *Ubar* killed more than Hitler could ever hope to have killed and yet you see people walking through the streets during protests and marches, holding aloft banners of him. If someone did that with banners of Hitler, they would be nicked.

 

And before anyone starts, I am not trying to justify or agree with Hitler.

 

Its an interesting one. Must admit I 've not really seen Stalin being waved about and I can't believe there are many actual Stalinist knocking about anymore, although there must be some if we can have Maoist slavery in south london!! . Whilst there were Stalanists and Maoists I think that number has dropped off over the years. Neo-nazi "far right" groups are way more dominant  - stuff like BNP and the EDL in the UK but also front national and golden dawn in France and Greece which I think are quite a bit better. I think its in the public eye more. That and WW2 were Stalin was an ally against the Nazi's.

 

Also I bet its due in part to a bit of a knowledge gap for some - Hitler is the big one so to speak.

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Is there anything to admire about Hitler? Not really, I mean other than all the normal bad stuff, he was a terrible military commander who ignored the advice of his infinitely more experienced generals multiple times, he picked utterly incompetent allies and the war he started would have led to a physically unsustainable Superstate had he won.

 

That he so successfully manipulated his way from a low ranking corporal, to being Fuhrer was certainly very impressive, but certainly not admirable.

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To be honest there are just some crazy people out there. Sure Hitler was the lowest of the low when it comes to the scum of humanity. But what if instead the man had simply reinstated German might and left it there? Would he have been hailed a hero instead? History is always going to be written by those that won or those that could write and tell the stories.

 

This whole radio thing just sounds like someone that is either insane, trying to cause an issue or genuinely stupid. It just sounds like they have decided to cause a fuss about something either intentionally or not and have possibly got what they wanted to say done. I would personally just ignore them as we all have the right to free speech but it doesn't mean that anyone else has to listen to them use it. If they were holding the station hostage in demand that all of Ireland celebrate Hitler's birthday then that is very different but as it stands it is just people reacting to a mad person or a person out to get a reaction.

 

'FireKnife'

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 stuff like BNP and the EDL in the UK but also front national and golden dawn in France and Greece which I think are quite a bit better. I think its in the public eye more. That and WW2 were Stalin was an ally against the Nazi's.

 

 

 

... I meant to say bigger, not better....

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FK, have a gander at the responses in that link. Irony is lost on some people, regarding freedom of speech. A few people say they didn't agree with his comments (which is there freedom of speech), but other people say that is fascist to disagree. When it's actually fascist to say you can't have a different view or disagree with another persons comment or view. "You're free, to do as we tell you", springs to mind.

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Looks like typical comments to me.

 

Though at the end of the day I am all for equality, free speech and the like but many people forget free speech comes with 'free listening'.

 

You have a right to listen to what you want to and so long as it doesn't infringe on the liberties of another person then say what you want, be who you want to be and listen to those that agree with you.

 

Some people just assume that if someone is talking about something right wing and they so 'oh I don't agree' they are suddenly superior for it. That in my mind is worse, making yourself 'superior' just because you agree against the common 'issue' that people share. The guy isn't doing any physical or emotional harm to anyone, just take it as his personal choice, even if he is trolling and let him be. If he is genuine then that is his choice, if he is taking the p*** then ignore him. When he goes and beats up a Jewish person because Hitler said it was cool then he clearly needs to be dealt with but here and now just let people have their say is what I say. Not fill comments boards with pap about making oneself feeling amazing for disagreeing with him.

 

'FireKnife'

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That's true FK, but what I meant was the comments about hatred towards Jews and also British people. That's nothing to do with the bloke who admires a *rickroller* and his problem solving skills. What annoys me, is that people hold views that are so bigoted, then try and say other people are the bigots for expressing different views.

 

I believe in free speech. But be prepared to explain why you have that view. That's a debate which is always better than "nah, leave them too it". Will learn nothing from shrugging shoulders and ignoring (clearly) xenophobic/racist views.

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This is just media tripe - the questions were leading...they were hoping for controversy because it sells. I mean, a photographer took a picture of the cake to generate some buzz on the paper, a local station jumped on that to try and cash in on the same. It's no secret that the older Irish generation can be pretty damned racist, so it was a fairly safe bet to get him to say something that would generate backlash.

 

It is nearly impossible to mention Hitler at all without someone overreacting shouting "what are you, a Nazi? You condone MURDER?!" etc.

 

The dude's a collector...he likes war memorabilia, and that's strange enough for a lot of people. Toss in Nazi's and you've got the moral high ground brigade to the rescue. History is a funny thing...people are afraid to report certain truths because of how it looks, and it depends entirely on your perspective (i.e. who's telling the history). For example...Mr. Oliver Cromwell is a well regarded historical figure in British History; he did quite a lot for the country. However in Ireland he is considered a baby killer and a tyrannical scourge, particularly of Drogheda. Thankfully we are logical people whom can look at things from different perspectives and analyse. Similarly, like it or not everything that Hitler did was legal. One man managed to seize power over a country, and had a majority of the populace eating out of is hand. He reformed a lot in Germany, got people working again, and then went full retard with the genocide and atrocities etc. 

 

I don't condone what Hitler (or Cromwell) did, however I can see why some people would admire it - as Springsteen says "all men want to be rich, rich men want to be king". Admiration is like beauty...it's in the eye of the beholder. This story is just blown way out of proportion, and is part and parcel of the media circus.

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I think the blown out of proportion bit is the comment regarding the different point of view. That's what got me thinking "am I over reacting or is there no other explanation?". If you say "that's what I heard" you are defending what you have said by stating you heard it. Now, you can then add that you don't agree with what you heard.

 

Again, freedom of speech should be applauded. But if you say something that will offend or cause pain to others, those people then have a right to disagree with your comments. Just so long as no-one goes and makes threats or carries out violant acts, because they disagree with another person view/standpoint.

 

Edit: also, be careful when you say "everything hitler did was legal". That can be misunderstood, were as you meant the take over of power, not the planning and systematic murder of millions of people (disabled, homosexual, Jewish and travellers etc).

 

Hitler for a lot of people is the reason their loved ones didn't come home or were bombed whilst at home. That's why you should be careful when saying you admire him. Yes it is true, one person dictator is a others hero. Most counties have that (definitely doesn't make it right).

 

Edit No 2:- phone keeps changing hitler to butler, unless I put the 'h' in capitals. Nazi phone?

 

Picture of the comment from a transcript of the radio conversation:-

 

 

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No, everything he did was legal...including the extermination camps. He was in power, he made it legal. That's what I meant. It wasn't right, and I can't understand how people deny that it happened, and yes that one part was a little heart sinking; it does read a little more ignorant. Well, ignorant is being polite...it could very well be that he agreed with the concentration camp system of eradication. Afterall, Ireland is quite a racist country...and I've heard it mentioned about people wishing all foreigners were rounded up (in all sincerity) etc, completely glossing over our own history of spreading like rabbits.

 

I just feel a little bad for the guy because he's being exploited for exposure

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No, everything he did was legal...including the extermination camps. He was in power, he made it legal. That's what I meant. It wasn't right, and I can't understand how people deny that it happened, and yes that one part was a little heart sinking; it does read a little more ignorant. 

 

Thats not strictly true. Many, many things were done which were illegal under the 1929 Geneva Convention (international law) hence the Nuremberg trials. There's debate around whether specific things were technically illegal but yeah, not "everything" Hitler did was legal. 

 

edit: its irrelevant anyway as legality has *fruitcage* all to do with moral value

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  • 3 weeks later...

Legal isnt always moral. As for the debate there are in my view no people who are purely evil. People aren't one dimensional villans. There are things done by hitler that could be held up as good things. The amti animal cruelty and hunting laws could be held up as such however the mans other actions were monsterous.

 

As for the comments that state free spech unless I disagree then I will demand it be supressed.... welcome to political activists.

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Free speech is incouraged unless you threaten to brake laws, it's something that should be considered common knowledge. If you threaten someone with death, rape or a beating, that's nothing to do with free speech but everything to do with wanting to commit a violent act. Free speech is to voice you're opinion about something you disagree with. Be that politics or something else, if you then add on an action to that speech, it is no longer opinion but a will to commit a crime or vioent act (depending on the action).

 

Here's an example:-

(This is not my view but an example of how people can get confused.)

 

I am against gay marriage, as I believe it is between man and woman.

That statement is free speech. But if you add:-

 

I believe all gays should burn in hell/be killed.

 

That is a threat and not free speech. You want to commit, or have someone commit, a crime to an individual who you don't agree with. That isn't free speech.

 

Of course, this is my interpretation of the does and don'ts when regarding, what is and what is not, free speech.

 

Edit:- for clarification; I believe the man on the radio has a right to voice his views, but free speech also means you can disagree with those views, as that is the very definition or free speech. Free to question, not to threaten.

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I was raising it as a general point based on my experience with politically involved people where as soon as you raise a point that they dislike you get screamed at and shouted down and called a bigot etc.

 

The line there in your example is tricky though because if I was say a traditionalist southern baptist I may actually believe that 'all unrepentant homosexuals will burn in hell' that isn't a threat thats a statement of belief, I was always under the impression that a threat had to be targeted so a blanket statement of 'this horrible thing shpuld happen to x group' was offensive yet fine but 'I want to do this horrible thing to this specific group' was a threat.

 

Of course there's a right to disagree and all those who would threaten in response to having their views disagreed with I would describe as fascist regardless of where they stand. Just because you dislike a view you have no right to demand people be silenced.

 

Free speech is actually very limited, theres the obvious 'you cannot shout fire in a theatre' ban on intent to alarm, thebsame for incitement to riot and now one can use public order offenses as a catch all weapon plus the anti discrimination legislation can be used to silence speech that isnt threatening or incitement to violence on the grounds it is offensive or will incite racial tension meaningnthat you can be silenced based on not your words affect on the people you are speaking too but others who take offense to your use of free speech and commit violent acts and threaten death and violence towards you for making a statement they disagree with.

 

The censored b.n.p party political broadcasts for one where parts are blanked because they are 'likely to cause offense' censored not for ilegality or for threats but because they will offend.

 

I kind of want them to bring back the common law concept of 'fighting words' at times. Where if you say something with the deliberate intent of causing conflict your words are not protected by any right of free speech and you brought thebresponse on yourself.

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See, if you say "all homosexuals will burn I hell", that isn't a threat as such. But if you say "I want all homosexuals to burn in hell" then that could be perceived as a threat. It always amazes me, when people make out they are open to a different view (as you mentioned Paranoiddroid) but as soon as it is different to their point of view, they get all shirty and gobby. I can definitely relate to (as you said) being called a bigot or something else (and normally it's very ironic, as they are being the very thing, they are accusing me of being).

 

I've bit my lip at times, as there has been times when I've been confronted with a bigotry view. People would say 'x' about 'y' people and I would just go "yeah, can't say I agree with that". It has always lead to the other person trying to find out why I have that view, when I couldn't give two *suitcases* why they have their view.

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