Wild_XIII Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I came across this on a friends Facebook page. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10595087/Hand-guns-should-be-legalised-and-licensed-Nigel-Farage-has-said.html What do other people think? What I find interesting is that his main argument seems to be to let the British Olympic pistol team practice in the UK, rather than France. I don't know, a politician WANTING handguns available again seems rather unorthodox. My own guess is that he wants to get the shooting community to vote for him. Link to post Share on other sites
Desolation mkII Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 I think he is simply suggesting a licensing system similar to that of rifles at the moment. It doesn't mean that every man and his dog will be able to buy one, but competition shooters etc (those with good reason) will. I support it, and the arguments made against it seem largely to be pulled out of arses. Link to post Share on other sites
Danke Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 Pendulums swing 2 ways; the trick is to catch the wave and amplify it. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 Experts have said his comments were “stupid” and encourage an American-style idea that you and your home are only safe if you are armed. Um, who the *fruitcage* are these 'experts' and why don't they know even if handguns were reintroduced they wouldn't legally be allowed to be used for self defense just as existing firearms are not. Peter Squires, professor of criminology at Brighton University and a member of Association of Police Officer’s advisory group on the criminal use of fire arms said that Mr Farage’s comments were "irresponsible". He said: “If public safety is a consideration then it’s a particularly stupid thing to say. It opens up the problem that we have almost dealt with successfully. "It will generate a demand, it will generate illegal traffic around that demand – the problem with hand guns is that they are small and concealable and they are already the weapon of choice of gangs members and criminals.” Ha, what planet is this guy on? Almost dealt with successfully? Dream on. A legal supply generating illegal traffic? Legal guns would have no impact on the increasing demand for illegal guns. Link to post Share on other sites
Desolation mkII Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 "Handguns are the weapons of choice for gangs" was another particular favourite. Er pretty sure that knives are. Link to post Share on other sites
Colin_The+Ferret Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Yeah, and Mark Duggan had a legaly purchased target pistol...not. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 So... to get a gun I have to vote for the racist party... Not worth it TBH. Actually, that might even push JoeAverage away from firearms in that the only person calling for the law to be laxened is a member of such an offensive political group. Link to post Share on other sites
Horsem4n Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 lol, ill refrain from commenting on stuff like this because of my american view point. but i always just have to laugh at the excuses politicians make for banning things. especially firearms. Link to post Share on other sites
aznriptide859 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 It's not that. It's mainly stupid that politicians make policies regarding aspects or areas of life they have absolutely no knowledge about. Which pretty much describes 100% of politics anyways lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Cannonfodder80 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Of course it's not a cheap attempt for the ventriloquists dummy to divert attention away from the fact that he admitted he doesn't even know what's in his own party's manifesto Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I would post my opinions but given that last time it lead to a small number of people thinking I was insane for saying that firearms in the UK, due to our culture, are not needed I will not waste my typing. And before anyone points out 'oh but what about airsoft', they are toys, they are used in competiton and bar a close shot to the eye they don't have the capacity to kill or maim. Quite simply in the UK, general firearms access is not needed, if people want to compete then have places set up that store their guns for them and allow them to compete. The cartridge firearm never leaves the club and thus is much less likely to be used incorrectly. That I am all for but not public ownership of lethal level firearms. Plus all in all this is UKIP. If they ever got into power I am leaving the UK, simple as that, because I couldn't live in a country that is stupid enough to have a majority vote for a bunch of closet racists and homophobes that live in the 1950s and think many things that are not correct of a modern, considerate and liberal society. I think many would feel the same and I am sure if they did get in firearm ownership would be the last thing people are worried about. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I'd be happy for pistols to return to the UK. The regulations we already have are quite strict, pistols would have to be put on F.A.C. with serial numbers and barrel printing recorded. Self defence or defence of property with a firearm is not legal in the UK, unless your attacker also has a firearm and gives you the 3 minutes it takes to unlock your gun safe. I'd personally like to see this stay the same, that's one slice of Yankish culture that is unnecessary in the UK. I'd love to be able to shoot IPSC or other practical pistol sports. That'd be great. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike_West Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 OK, so who's dumber and more detached from reality here: a known kook or a bunch of ninnies?I say ninnies. I'd be happy for pistols to return to the UK. The regulations we already have are quite strict, pistols would have to be put on F.A.C. with serial numbers and barrel printing recorded. Why, well, yes, of course, that's the obvious way to do it, however both the general stupid public and the politicians pandering to them are too stupid to understand the obvious, and prefer to follow some sort of moon logic. Link to post Share on other sites
Skarclaw Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 lol, ill refrain from commenting on stuff like this because of my american view point. but i always just have to laugh at the excuses politicians make for banning things. especially firearms. Or abortions... Link to post Share on other sites
DrAlexanderTobacco Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Stuff like this is always a tricky issue. I can certainly emphasise with both sides; but considering how abrupt (although isolated) and severe Dunblane was, I very much doubt there'll be any loosening of restrictions in the future. Dunblane is a very easy argument to draw from (think of the children etc.) if one is on the side of keeping handguns illegal. There have been worse atrocities, and certainly more numerous, in the US recently. Sandy Hook for example - But that's in a country with the right to bear arms protected by the constitution, in a massive country far larger in terms of area and population than the UK. (I'm not arguing for either outcome here, just expressing my thoughts on why legalisation of handguns won't happen in the UK.) One thing though - Does anyone know why restrictions on the channel islands never went into action? IIRC you can still own handguns on the Isle of Man, Jersey etc. I understand they're isolated obviously but I didn't expect them to be separate judicially. Link to post Share on other sites
Skarclaw Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 United Kingdom govt responsiblity for defence and general public affairs however the islands are pretty autonomous when it comes to domestic matters. Hence why Isle of Man is a tax exile and Jersey is the most weird, dodgy, corrupt place this side of the Atlantic. In principle I think private ownership of guns should be permitted however I'll break from my libertarian instincts and suggest that handguns should only be allowed to be kept at private clubs. I fear that we will inherit mass shootings from America like we do sitcoms, obesity and diabetes. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 As much as I would like to be able to keep a handgun at home so I could clean it at my leisure, if it was a case of having them locked up at club or not at all, I would definitely be OK with them at a club. It would be ridiculously easy to implement, pistol/pistols on your FAC, and then then some kind of safety deposit box system at the club to keep them all in. As long as you entrust it to a private company to manage it, it would be simple. Of course the casual gun crime won't be committed with legal guns but if someone did want to go out with a bang, there is always the chance it could be done with a legally held gun, however small that chance was. Link to post Share on other sites
shmook Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 The cartridge firearm never leaves the club and thus is much less likely to be used incorrectly. That I am all for but not public ownership of lethal level firearms. What about the couple of hundred thousand rifles and shotguns already held by the public. In their own homes? Self defence or defence of property with a firearm is not legal in the UK, unless your attacker also has a firearm and gives you the 3 minutes it takes to unlock your gun safe. Self defence has to be reasonable, and justified. As you said, if an attacker/s were armed, then you should be justified. It has happened over here with no consequences for the homeowner. Also, I can be in my gun safe in far less than 3 minutes Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 What about the couple of hundred thousand rifles and shotguns already held by the public. In their own homes? Perhaps then the same restriction should be added? I just personally don't see the need for firearms that can inflict lethal injury in a civilised country. I would be happy if they were locked away at clubs though as then it is a case of safe enviroment and not within somewhat easy reach of house breakers and such. It is not the people that legally want to use them that I have the issue with but more those that could get their hands on them to use them incorrectly. I did have a long post written out but again I recall last time all I got was comparisons to airsoft and all of us owning RIFs with some people missing the point completely and I just can't be bothered with it again (not aimed at you shmook, but at some members from the past, many of which have thankfully gone). I can see why people would like to compete with firearms but surely everyone must be able to see that it is always going to create an issue and with something as potentially deadly as a firearm it would be easier to deny them than to allow them. I wish we lived in a country where we could do what we all wanted without fear of the issues it would cause but we don't and given the state of things we never will. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
Skarclaw Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Perhaps then the same restriction should be added? I just personally don't see the need for firearms that can inflict lethal injury in a civilised country. I would be happy if they were locked away at clubs though as then it is a case of safe enviroment and not within somewhat easy reach of house breakers and such. It is not the people that legally want to use them that I have the issue with but more those that could get their hands on them to use them incorrectly. Cause they aren't for "sporting" use. I don't go to a club to shoot game... we also don't have that much gun crime so its not even on the political agenda. Unlike the Americans who demand their rights but absolve themselves of any responsibility. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Ha. Can you you imagine? Right, so what did you get today? Well, 7 squirrels, 4 rabbits and 13 pigeons. Congratulations, 63 points for you. Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Cause they aren't for "sporting" use. I don't go to a club to shoot game... Would not that count as sport? You are still competing to achieve a goal against your fellows or yourself using specific equipment? Plus allowances for transportation to a shoot and then straight back to be locked away would be an idea. It is not so much the uses I have the issues with but putting them locked away where no-one bar a registered official can access them etc. It is one of those things that can't really be answered in a single post on a forum but I just think that the idea of typical handgun or even general firearm ownership doesn't work in a nation like ours because of how bad it has become. In another time, in an ideal world I would be all for it but as it stands that small group of people in society have proved they will steal and mi-use such things and until that is tackled I can't ever see personal firearms being a good idea. TL;DR We need a better country with more considerate and intelligent people in it before we start making up laws like this for it. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
Skarclaw Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Would not that count as sport? Plus allowances for transportation to a shoot and then straight back to be locked away would be an idea. It is not so much the uses I have the issues with but putting them locked away where no-one bar a registered official can access them etc. It is one of those things that can't really be answered in a single post on a forum but I just think that the idea of typical handgun or even general firearm ownership doesn't work in a nation like ours because of how bad it has become. In another time, in an ideal world I would be all for it but as it stands that small group of people in society have proved they will steal and mi-use such things and until that is tackled I can't ever see personal firearms being a good idea. TL;DR We need a better country with more considerate and intelligent people in it before we start making up laws like this for it. 'FireKnife' I don't count it as sport but whatever. You're "allowances for transport" is more or less exactly how it works. In my case I take it out of the cabinet... walk outside... and then put them back in my cabinet. You can be stripped off your license if anybody other then you knows the location of the key to said cabinet. Your idea of "registered official" accessing guns would put most clay pigeon etc places out of business thus destroying the clubs that you would have them tied to. We have ridiculously low rates of gun violence & accidents. You have to be interviewed by the police to obtain a shotgun cert. Likewise for my FAC I had to be interviewed (in person) and asked to state why I wanted a firearm. I also had to describe the lay of the land including distances and back stops. There is also a probationary period of time before you can add anything else to the FAC - you can't just amass an armory. I guess what I'm trying to say is that gun and firearm ownership in the UK is already heavily regulated and well enforced. There is not a disportionate amount of gun violence. Solution for a problem that doesn't exist. Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 At the end of the day though my issue is not with the system as it stands but about allowing changes to the system and applying a better education to firearms before applying said changes. We do live in a nation that has a lot of people that I would call hoplophobic and a lot of people that are too stupid and un-educated to understand what to do to make a good situation out of it. If what you said is all true then great, it sounds like we have a decent, restrictive system but I know based on personal experience that is just not the case everywhere. Sure for those that wish to keep their hobby and interests it is but some land owners and some more 'renegade' clubs just put it on for show and find ways to do what they like (so called 'benefits' of living in the middle of nowhere). I am glad to hear that people stick to the system but as with all things it is those that don't that create the issue and to allow them access to smaller, easy to conceal firearms is going to lead to issues. This is just me speaking from personal experience though, as with all things everyones view is going to be different. Again it is not so much the idea in general of firearm ownership, more how people will go about abusing it. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
Skarclaw Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Again it is not so much the idea in general of firearm ownership, more how people will go about abusing it. 'FireKnife' Yup and my point is that by and large they don't Link to post Share on other sites
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