Argoms Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Hi, I'm trying to decide between a few guns. I've tried googling and searching on various sites, but that never seems to work for anything branded WELL other than the mp7. Overall I'm wondering if anyone has experience with these guns, and what they think of them. Will be giving shop-specific links since these things seem to also have names mixed up quite often. I'm trying to stay in the barely-qualified-as-AEG price range because of silly reasons. http://www.onlybbguns.co.uk/mprxda2-mp5-sd5-electric-airsoft-starter-gun-metal-gear-box.html?filter_name=mp5#.UwkJKM2bMno Claims to be a £60 metal gearbox mp5 firing at 300 fps. Seems good on paper, has anyone had any problems with them? There seems to also be a newer version for another £24: http://www.onlybbguns.co.uk/airsoft/electric-airsoft-gun/mprxda1-h-k-mp6-sd5-aeg-us-navy-seals.html#.UwkNrc2bMno http://airsoft4less.co.uk/products/Bulldog-B500A1-Electric-Airsoft-Rifle.html This thing seems pretty interesting. The gearbox is plastic, but apparently shoots at ~300fps and seems to be at least partly compatible with TM spec parts. Also it takes stanag mags, which is always nice. However, the motor seems to be proprietary. http://www.onlybbguns.co.uk/r4-big-r4-big.html?filter_name=mp7 This m4 stock version of the well mp7 seems to be half the price of everything else, and I could probably fit a better battery into said stock. Anything wrong with it? Overall, I'd like to know what sort of experiences people have had with the guns since I haven't been able to find very much through google. Thanks for the help. Link to post Share on other sites
northernairsofter Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 The reason you cant find much on google is because no" airsofters" use or owns one. In short , nearly everything those retailers sell will be a pile of junk , as will their customer srevice , warrantys etc. I knwo of a few people who have mistakenly dealt with them for a first gun , its broken , and they have no warranty so left severely out of pocket. For a first gun , id recommend a G&G CM16. Cheap, good performance and reliabilty. Dont look at Well/Bulldog/unbranded piles of junk. they are just money pits for clueless 10 yr olds. http://www.proairsoftsupplies.co.uk/acatalog/cm_16_carbine_combat_machine_.html http://www.proairsoftsupplies.co.uk/acatalog/cm16_carbine_transparent.html They can two tone the first for you as well. Hope this helps. Although they seem more pricey , you would only be left with a pile of junk after even limited uses of any of your findings. Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted February 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 The reason you cant find much on google is because no" airsofters" use or owns one. In short , nearly everything those retailers sell will be a pile of junk , as will their customer srevice , warrantys etc. I knwo of a few people who have mistakenly dealt with them for a first gun , its broken , and they have no warranty so left severely out of pocket. Well, that's the thing- nearly. Look at the both elephant XM8 for an example of a gun known to function pretty effectively for UK sub-350fps sites in the price range of the stuff I linked. Not everything will be a piece of ######. The well MP7 (although not the specific version I linked, which is why I'm curious) has received pretty favorable reviews on airsoft retreat. I believe Galaxy MP5Ks used to be at the price range of the mp5s I linked, and plenty of people have been satisfied with theirs. Link to post Share on other sites
northernairsofter Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Well, that's the thing- nearly. Look at the both elephant XM8 for an example of a gun known to function pretty effectively for UK sub-350fps sites in the price range of the stuff I linked. Not everything will be a piece of ######. The well MP7 (although not the specific version I linked, which is why I'm curious) has received pretty favorable reviews on airsoft retreat. I believe Galaxy MP5Ks used to be at the price range of the mp5s I linked, and plenty of people have been satisfied with theirs. Hence i said " nearly ". Also, what i meant was that i seriously doubt anyone on arnies will have used or bought any of these... Im not trying to crush your opinion , as clearly these websites do sell some things that are " ok - good ?" , but whose standards are these? And yes , the Well R4 does have some redeeming features and isnt a total POS , however , for whatever your purpose , plinking or skirmishing , a cm 16 will last you longer and perform miles ahead of any of these. G&G do a whole line of combat machines , aks , mp5's etc , so take your pic - if these are too expspensive then fair enough , however the LPEGs are often just one big fail , believe me , i owned one back in the day and it was an overpriced piece of junk. You may find yourself wishing that you saved up for a bit longer and got something comparatively epic. Looking at your previous posts it appears that you know far more about airsoft than i knew - apologies , as when someone with 7 posts links to those sites asking for the bestest gnu , the standard response is " cm16". If you need these for a project or something i have no idea. If you are looking for an aeg i stand by my advice. When i spent £70 quid on an lpeg 6 years ago i was £30 away from a marui pistol. Something i still regret !! Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted February 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to ignore your advice after asking for it. I understand what you're saying, but it seems like you're using a lot of broad generalizations. The mp5s I linked have v2 metal gearboxes, don't they? I thought one of the defining characteristics of an LPEG was proprietary parts that don't function particularly effectively. EDIT: Oh, right. I forgot to mention that this is for a "oh wow that guy has a cheap gun holy **** why is it spitting out bbs so quickly" project. If there were any cheap clear guns in the UK I would've gone for them. Link to post Share on other sites
northernairsofter Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to ignore your advice after asking for it. I understand what you're saying, but it seems like you're using a lot of broad generalizations. The mp5s I linked have v2 metal gearboxes, don't they? I thought one of the defining characteristics of an LPEG was proprietary parts that don't function particularly effectively. Yes , exactly , LPEGS are non TM spec. The "metal gearbox" part probably is true as they state they it - doubt they would lie to that extent so blatantly. However , a metal gearbox and externals made for far less than £60 is not going to be any sort of quality. If i may ask , what purpose do you want the guns for ? Plinking ? a project? Skirmishing? that would give me more of an idea! Link to post Share on other sites
northernairsofter Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 EDIT: Oh, right. I forgot to mention that this is for a "oh wow that guy has a cheap gun holy **** why is it spitting out bbs so quickly" project. If there were any cheap clear guns in the UK I would've gone for them. Ahhhhh , now i understand. You would probably be best replacing the gearbox entirely then. In that case i really do not know, SRC and others do some clear/ two tone guns that are on spec but again , that would be over £100. http://www.actionhobbys.co.uk/Two-Tone-Umarex-Tokyo-Soldier-AK47-Beta-Spetsnaz_A1DF46.aspx#.Uwkkffl_t8E http://www.actionhobbys.co.uk/Two-Tone-Umarex-H-K-MP5-A5-Sportline-Airsoft-Gun_A1FB42.aspx#.Uwkkdvl_t8E Im afraid that the ones you listed i will not be able to help you with. You may find that the mp5s you listed are upgradable , but it is a risk considering that i doubt anyone on here will be able to tell you what they are like for definite. The Well R4 ( at considerable cost) can be upgraded to the standard of an upgraded TM AEP MP7. Sorry for this being a bit of a wild goose chase , as realizing what you need it for , my services are inadequate. I hope the quest only goes upwards from here , my humblest of apologies. Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted February 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 No problem, my bad for not giving enough information. If anyone has experience with the guns I listed, information would be highly appreciated. If not, a £40 leap of faith for something that would at most cost £30 to turn into a serviceable AEP doesn't seem too bad. Link to post Share on other sites
dapprman Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 I think what people need to remember is that if you're coming in to airsoft and you do not have any friends already doing it to give advice, then you tend to be ignorant of the legal situation (which is very badly broadcast) on top of which you google for BB guns and promptly find those *bbguns sites. It's only by coming on to forums like here, or turning up at an event and asking round, that you find out about the VCRA, the need for a defence over buying RIFs and the fact that very cheap guns are very cheap for a very good reason and in reality you should be looking else where. Easy to forget if you've not been in that situation or have been playing for a long time Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted February 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 very cheap guns are very cheap for a very good reason Expensive stuff isn't necessarily better- take systema parts as an example of why price is a bad metric to judge quality on. Link to post Share on other sites
bladerunner168 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Internet is full of hear'say, my ex Systema Revolution setup was the most elegant internal AEG setup I ever had. Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted February 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 And it cost what, £400? For less than half of that I could get a set of siegetek gears, a mosfet, a good high-torque motor that isn't unnecessarily expensive, and replace any compression parts with bad seals. Hell, given England's FPS limits, I could probably get away with SHS gears and cut another £80 from the build. What would the systema revolution offer other than ease of installation for multiple times the price? Link to post Share on other sites
Danke Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 You should definitely buy this one and review/photo it here. I've never seen anything like it. http://www.onlybbguns.co.uk/r4-big-r4-big.html?filter_name=mp7#.UwlOkoUzmnU Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted February 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 You should definitely buy this one and review/photo it here. I've never seen anything like it. http://www.onlybbguns.co.uk/r4-big-r4-big.html?filter_name=mp7#.UwlOkoUzmnU Well, it seems to be an MP7 AEP with an AR buffer tube attached. I'm really conflicted on the MP5/MP7 thing right now. Positives for each side: MP5: -Target FPS of ~330 achievable with less strain on parts -I've opened a v2 gearbox before, can't say the same about an AEP -Magazines are cheaper -More/cheaper upgrades available MP7: -£20 cheaper (although quoted FPS seems questionable, and buying a replacement gearbox will make it more expensive if it actually is plastic, unlike other well r-4 MP7s) -Loads from pistol grip (I seem to have a soft spot for guns with magazines not in front of the trigger) -More "unique" -More compact Link to post Share on other sites
Danke Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Unique and compact is the way to go. Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 And it cost what, £400? For less than half of that I could get a set of siegetek gears, a mosfet, a good high-torque motor that isn't unnecessarily expensive, and replace any compression parts with bad seals. Hell, given England's FPS limits, I could probably get away with SHS gears and cut another £80 from the build. What would the systema revolution offer other than ease of installation for multiple times the price? Some people drive around in their Ferrari while I take the tube, while we get to the destination probably at around the same time, I wouldn't delude myself into thinking I'm the smart one and they're the idiot for spending so much on something that under some situation does the same thing as my monthly oyster pass... just saying. Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted February 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Some people drive around in their Ferrari while I take the tube, while we get to the destination probably at around the same time, I wouldn't delude myself into thinking I'm the smart one and they're the idiot for spending so much on something that under some situation does the same thing as my monthly oyster pass... just saying. Not exactly a fair comparison- there's a lot more of a difference between a ferrari and the tube than simply price. What I listed arguably performs equally, if not better than the "ferrari" for maybe an hour's work (for me, at least? This is pretty generous considering how all I'm really doing is swapping out a few parts and soldering 4 wires). I'm not sure about you, but I don't make £200 an hour. Link to post Share on other sites
dapprman Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Can I please point out the reason why I said you normally get what you pay for with the very cheap was not to suggest expensive is always very good and reliable (VFC GBBs anyone ?). The problem with the sites like justbbguns.co.uk is that most of their stuff is poor quality, and while there are some gems amongst the crud, these tend to be more expensive than else where and also comparable prices (on these sites) to higher quality guns else where (G&G Combat Machines being flavour of the month for a good long while now). Additionally no one has mentioned how it can be hard to sell on two-tone guns as most people on these forums have defences in place and so want their RIFs to be the correct colours (though at the same time it is possible to get some good two-tone bargains for the same reason). Link to post Share on other sites
3vi1-D4n Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Yep, high price does not equal high quality....just look at Land Rovers! And strangely G&G CM16s is like the new marui, plastic bodied/lightweight with rock solid internals and most prac-softers love them, and 3 times cheaper than a marui. I have seen too many abominations efficient spam machines designed from the CM16s But yeah stay away from plastic mech LPEGs and the like. Cheapest you should go is a JG G36, ACM SIG551 or a Galaxy MP5K and no cheaper. Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 But yeah stay away from plastic mech LPEGs and the like. Cheapest you should go is a JG G36, ACM SIG551 or a Galaxy MP5K and no cheaper. Any idea on how the well MP5 compares to the galaxy? Also, ACM sig? Seeing as there are a lot of Chinese manufacturers, that doesn't seem very specific. Link to post Share on other sites
3vi1-D4n Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I haven't seen the insides of a WELL MP5 yet, so it could be good. But having had a number of plastic MP5s, I would probably not recommend. MP5s work on V2s and while V2s aren't bad mechboxes they are hardest to tune for a beginner. Plastic receiver on the MP5s are prone to snapping and breaking even just dropped so they aren't that structurally great. However the Galaxy MP5Ks if you can find them, are V3 mechboxed with a plastic receiver which is a different structure from a full sized MP5, and internally they are very efficient (airseal and reliability). The issue with the Galaxy is their overly heavy spring and poor shimming and etc. MP5Ks do have limited potential for upgrades but they are robust and like the JG G36Cs they will last a while. If you are going for MP5s get the entry level CYMA metal bodied ones. ACM SIG 552s, there were a number of manufacturers, some just ACM SIG 552 others were JG SIG 552. Again metal V3 mech but plastic bodied. Not bad, sufficient, but its no toyota, just a daihatsu. Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 What's hard about v2s? The grip area (motor height adjustment, wires kept disconnecting until I poked them around enough, awkward screw positions) and keeping the ARL from popping out were the only frustrating things for me, but they weren't particularly difficult. EDIT: By the way, I'm going to go with the well MP5. I really don't want to open an AEP gearbox (let alone a plastic one) for the first time with a gun I intend to use the same week. That, and the price of AEP parts is pretty crazy compared to v2. Expect a review posted in the next few days. Link to post Share on other sites
3vi1-D4n Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Well, its not hard at all when you are at it with a new gun. As soon as you need to work on someone elses gun which is either: - Broken gun with a V2 with a melted V2 trigger, Worn semi-auto switch, burned out motor, broken tappet plate, lost airseal etc - A gun with the worlds most gucci aftermarket internals, but nothing works together and it sounds like an angry beaver when it fires and etc... You will know what I mean. Stock guns = Happy guns, but stock guns means generally it doesn't last long unless its a marui Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I was going to say, if you want a gun that makes you look like a noob of the mouth-breathing variety, G&G's CM16 is available in clear plastic and it's a great gun if the rest of the CM16 range is anything to go by. I was going to say, because that Day-Glo orange AR-15-stocked MP7 is the stupidest thing I've seen all day. All week, maybe. I would advise against a Well MP5, BTW, unless you've totally set your heart on the Well - the CYMA MP5s are great little guns and not very expensive. Link to post Share on other sites
Warning Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 there's also the clear body ICS m4's as well btw and there pretty good out of the box and the CYMA and Galaxy MPS's get my vote as well the Galaxy MP5K for deffo Link to post Share on other sites
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