Slo Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 In our cockpits, it's called, "Bitchin Betty". The F-15E is also EXCEPTIONALLY heavy . . .and huge . . .it is not a close-combat fighter - it's like having a Sumo wrestler doing CQB . . . -Slo Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie182 Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Exactly. Also, let's not forget that the F-15 was designed as an air superiority fighter, and the Typhoon primarily as a multi-role aircraft. The Eurofighter is very maneuverable, easily slipping past and around other aircraft in close dogfighting. Had the two planes been coming at each other from 100 miles away, however, the results would have been quite different. It's a bit like saying "My bike can turn in the garage, and your car can't, so my bike is better than your car". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're a tad inaccurate there havoc. At the present time the Typhoon is not a multi-role a/c. Had the engagment been BVR, the F-15 would have been even worse off. But then so it should be. Eagle - 1980's tech Typhoon - Modern tech. It's a simple fact, the eagle should not be able to beat the typhoon. If it could there would be no point in the armed forces every updating their equipment. Link to post Share on other sites
cpaxton Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Um . . . yeah, because the USAAF had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it either . . . . -Slo <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well done, No they didn't, in the battle of britain it was the RAF which saved us. Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie182 Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 In our cockpits, it's called, "Bitchin Betty". The F-15E is also EXCEPTIONALLY heavy . . .and huge . . .it is not a close-combat fighter - it's like having a Sumo wrestler doing CQB . . . -Slo <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He's not refering to the betty slo. He's refering to the fact that a typhoon pilot can bring up displays, select weapons, sort and lock targets by voice control rather than having to remove his hands from the controls. Link to post Share on other sites
Intimidator Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 ...Guys...Lets give it to the Brits...For Once...They beat us! One of the reasons that we are in ALLIANCE with you guys... Ok...Our Jets may suck....so lets go onto the Helos...Something I KNOW The apache can face ALL! If I need to I'll pull out our commercial aircraft! That will be a mighty big argument... If that doesn't work, If I must I'll pull out the ol' trusty REVOLUTIONARY WAR argument!!! HaHA! Link to post Share on other sites
Slo Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Oh okay, when he said moaning minnie, I assuming he meant the irritating lady that tells you all of the most obvious things such as, "pull up", "radar lock", "SAM launch", and such. Yes, BVR, wow - the Typhoon would obliterate just about anything - except the F-22, in which case it'd be close, and possibly the Su-37 Super Flanker, which is a pretty nice, extremely hi-tech airplane, being Russian notwithstanding. EDIT: LOL yeah, Helos, since our infinitely wise congress decided to kill the RAH-66 . . . ugh. THAT was one sweet piece of aircraft there. -Slo Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie182 Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Ok...Our Jets may suck....so lets go onto the Helos...Something I KNOW The apache can face ALL! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, hence we bought the Apache, and improved it. Link to post Share on other sites
WeirdoTransvestite Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Considering the F-15 is about 30 years old, and still our best fighter, I'd have to say that is a very well designed machine. If it ain't broke (you're not tryin') don't fix it. Well, much. Link to post Share on other sites
Slo Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Actually our best aircraft are probably in this order: F-22 F-35 F/A-18E/F F-16 Block 40ish? I think . . . The F-117 is highly overrated in my opinion, and it's a *badgeress* to fly from what I hear. Then come your normal F/A-18Cs, F-14Ds, F-15Cs, F-15Es, etc. -Slo Link to post Share on other sites
Spedz Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 What am bestes plane Spotworth camal Spitfire Oh jets?? errm.....pecker? Link to post Share on other sites
ndfirespider Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 I think you nailed it on the head with the list there Slo. We have Holloman's F-117s here right now and from the talk between the -16 drivers and the Nighthawks that I've overheard, sounds like the -117s are a bit of a pain in the *albartroth*. Also, I think what most people here have overlooked is the fact that its a bit rare for a USAF jet to engage the enemy without AWACS or JSTARS support. I don't know what you guys across the pond use for that sort of thing, but I know our pilots love that support. The AWACS is a real force multiplyer. I mean, why risk a 1v1 jet fighter combat when I can have my AWACS vector me and my buddy onto your heading from 300+ miles out and tell me everything I want to know about you before I even decide to engage? Sure, the Typhoon is a great piece of hardware, but lets take it in context... and realize we are all same team here? Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Or my SF unit is better than yours because they're more trained in CQC than Del-oops-yours.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If they're both trained in the same thing, though, then a comparison can be made... Which is the whole point of what I was saying about the two units... What am bestes plane Spotworth camal Spitfire Oh jets?? errm.....pecker? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Spotworth Camel...? I've only ever heard of the Sopwith Camel, myself Link to post Share on other sites
Shin_Kudo Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Just for the record, an F14 will rip anything to shreds in BVR, save maybe an F/A-22. It's got a longer radar range, and longer effective missile range, than anything in the world, and can take out 8 targets simultaneously. However, in a dogfight, things would be different. Link to post Share on other sites
Slo Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Oh man, AWACs support these days is awesome. Like the J-Stars and the E767s now coming into service. Got those massive Phased Array Frequency Agile sets . . .they can actually guide missiles fired from fighters, so the fighters themselves NEVER have to light up their active radar systems rendering themselves nearly invisible until the last moment. Good stuff. As for the F-14, great plane, but honestly, it's days are numbered. Even the AIM-54 is just about obsolete with the kind of active and semi-active jammers they have nowadays. And I love the Tom, it's an awesome plane. Navy is gonna' start decomming them soon and replacing them with the 18 Echos. -Slo Link to post Share on other sites
dirty mao Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Just goes to show, a huge budget and massive resources does not mean you will win. What is funny is that it was two on one, and they still lost. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> dude, i think you're mistaken. the typhoon was 8 bil over its budget, and many years late in its completion. it said that right in the article, man. not trying to be all patriotic, but, YOU LEWS. (plus comparing the typhoon to the F15 is kinda like saying the MP5 is better than the MP44) Link to post Share on other sites
Butter18c Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I blame the pilots Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie182 Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I think you nailed it on the head with the list there Slo. We have Holloman's F-117s here right now and from the talk between the -16 drivers and the Nighthawks that I've overheard, sounds like the -117s are a bit of a pain in the *albartroth*. Also, I think what most people here have overlooked is the fact that its a bit rare for a USAF jet to engage the enemy without AWACS or JSTARS support. I don't know what you guys across the pond use for that sort of thing, but I know our pilots love that support. The AWACS is a real force multiplyer. I mean, why risk a 1v1 jet fighter combat when I can have my AWACS vector me and my buddy onto your heading from 300+ miles out and tell me everything I want to know about you before I even decide to engage? Sure, the Typhoon is a great piece of hardware, but lets take it in context... and realize we are all same team here? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We are exactly the same mate. For AWACS, we use the E-3D (my old squadron) which is nothing more than an updated version of your E-3A. And we are bringing in our JSTARS a/c as we speak, due to be in active service early 2008. You are of course 100% correct with the whole we are on the same team comment. But come on, that's just not as much fun is it. I don't know how long you've been in the forces, but I'm sure you must have been involved in at least one international excercise by now. Unfortunatly it the major problem with being 2 of the best military forces in the world (wow, I was nearly political there) is you have to fight each other to get any decent training value. Shin_Kudo Just for the record, an F14 will rip anything to shreds in BVR, save maybe an F/A-22. It's got a longer radar range, and longer effective missile range, than anything in the world, and can take out 8 targets simultaneously. However, in a dogfight, things would be different. Really 8 whole targets? Maybe in the 70's this was a good thing. In this day and age it's nothing to write home about. The F-22, Typhoon and JCA (F-35) all have the ability to track sort and engage targets numbering up in to the hundreds (obviously theorectical as they can't carry that many missiles). Typhoon, and I assume the other two as well, can also engage targets without turning their own radar on using link 16 (datalink) data from either AWACS or other fighters.# The F-14 does not have a longer range radar at all, in fact by todays standards it's average at best. And as for the AIM-54, yeah it has a long range, but that long range is only any good against bombers and not small & agile fighter a/c. Not to mention the fact that the AIM-54 is pretty useless against modern ECM systems. Sorry but the F-14 just doesn't cut the mustard anymore, that's why the USN are replacing them, and as for the AIM-54, can anyone say AIM-120C? Or even better Meteor, the soon to be uber AAM for the Typhoon. Oh and you American types, You can't put the F-35 on your list of top a/c yet. It's not in service. And anyway, we're buying it too . In fact, is the Raptor even in service yet? I mean, the typhoon is only just entering service as we speak and it won't be fully operational for a year or so at least. Link to post Share on other sites
Night_raven Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Eddie: The raptors not due to enter service until 2008, in which time our eurofighters should hopefully have updates fitted like more powerful rader and (if they manage to crack it) anti missle defences (instead of chafs, flares and manouvers) IMO i would prefer to see the eurofighter pit itself again the F22 but i cant see the F22 being a all round better fighter as yh its got stealth and so on, but who wants that if you have speed and manouverbility, coupled with rolls royce engines , i think britains onto a winner here like we were with the spitfire (or spitfuerer in german). but hold onto our helmets if the F22 does do something without hitting there own men (or ours). Night_raven Link to post Share on other sites
ndfirespider Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 F-22s are active at Langley AFB, 1st Fighter Wing I beleive it is. I think they have 8 or 9 up and running right now, with 2 or 3 a month coming in? Don't quote me on the numbers, not sure on those. Eddie, yeah the only international exercise I have been in involved the Korean Air Force and Army. Ugh. 'Nuff said Link to post Share on other sites
Night_raven Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Intresting: Did they end the green flag mission, ... apaarently they did, and now its just red flag. I didnt know that they where already operational at langley AfB, is that the only squadron currently working it ? Night_raven Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie182 Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 The full lot updates and weapons set fr Typhoon is not sue to be 100% done until 2012. Although they will be 100% operational and 200% lethal by 2008. A few thing such as the Meteor AAM (AMRAAM replacement) will be a bit later. It basically looks like the F-22 and Typhoon are running at about equal progress then. With Typhoon possibly a bit further ahead, even though we don't have any operational sqn's yet. Only pilot training. ndfirespider, Unlucky mate, So far I've been and played with the USAF, Germans, French and Italians. Most of that as part of the NATO Airborne EW force while I was on the E-3D's. Also done 2 months in total at Aviano AFB in italy working with the USAF for ops in Kosovo (again E-3D's). The last thing I did was working with the non-existant U2's you lot have at our lovley summer retreat of an airbase (our biggest one actually) out in Cyprus. But of course thy aren't there. Despite that fact everyone see them flying around. Night_raven, Not sure about green flag. TBH I've not heard of it. We've got maple flag running at the moment, and red flag I dare say isn't far away. Link to post Share on other sites
Night_raven Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Eddie: Thats what i meant to say maple flag, .. how often is it spaced out then between maple flag and red flag ? Night_raven Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie182 Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Not really sure TBH. I have nothing to do with planning the excercises or anything like that. I mearly deal with getting the spares for the jets that are on ex's or operations. As I say, Maple Flag is ongoing as we speak. And causing me the usual amount of problems. I'm sure if you put Red Flag into google you'll come up with something. Link to post Share on other sites
Slo Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Another operational F-22 unit is out of Tyndall, AFB, Florida. But to my knowledge it's going to be training new pilots on the Raptor, not an actual combat squadron, BUT they do have the F-22 there, I've seen several. You, know, I went back and re-read the article again and you know what's even more impressive? That the F-15s took on a TRAINER version of the Typhoon - which of course is heavier, and probably has more aerodynamic drag holding it back. I do like the EF - it's to me, what a futuristic fighter SHOULD look like. I love the forward canards, and the whole sleekness of the plane. It is indeed sexy. LOL and I bet you those four Eagle drivers got a real *albatross* chewin once they got back to base too. -Slo Link to post Share on other sites
Night_raven Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 the EF is indeed sexy (not as much as my girlfriend ) and as for the F15 pilots, i bet they wouldnt talk about it anymore..just like when you did a mock battle against the russans in their mig 29's, SU37 flankers, .. they have chaed you round the sky with them, apparantly the F15 pilots couldnt shake the russians off their tail. Night_raven P.s - that was way back in 1997 as i know somebody who took part in that Link to post Share on other sites
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