Breach Bang Clear: Airsoft as a supplementary training tool

[Mike2514]

Security instructor from 2012 awarded by spanish CNP: 19086 for legal, "técnico profesional" and "protección y seguridad" that means I can teach but firearms training and self defense, also security officer, close protection officer, explosives security officer (I think you do not have this in UK) security director (once you get a university degree you can get this as a post-grade), have obtained the badges (equivalent to your badges, they are not "implemented" in Spain yet but can get the lessons) for all but k9, cctv, port security, prisons security and nuclear and critical installations.

 

NEVER EVER have seen airsoft as a training tool, it is a recreational sport and MAY be used as muscle memory enforcer the same way as unloaded guns but: no recoil, no bang and no shinning spent cartridges means not realistic, like simunition RAM and so.

 

If you want to train do it with unloaded real weapons, not more or less accurate toys and please don´t try to avoid the security gap needed to operate RS with lower dangerous toys. OR go to the Check Republic and the like and you will be able to handle loaded auto weapons not facing sky, floor or targets, but fellow people (the firing range security rules are a bit relaxed there).

Shall you hire a 100.000h trained airsofter or a 100h trained gun user? because if you prefer the first I will gladly send you hundreds of CV with no experience at all with real guns but years spent with toys. Sorry but if larping would prepare for a orc hunting or tracking real life would be so boring...

 

I take that training with RS you can save money by airsoft but the same money saved is realism lost.

finally liked this part:

There are scaled down Airsoft training targets used for ISPC and other shooting sports. The targets are scaled to visually appear the same size as the real target at true distance. For example one of these scaled down IPSC size targets placed at 9 feet presents the same sight picture perspective as a full sized IPSC target placed at 23 feet approximately.

So decided to give you a example:

You say you've never seen Airsoft as a training tool then go on to advocate it as a muscle enforcer, which, erm, is training is it not?!! Not only that, you then go on to advocate using an unloaded weapon over airsoft?! What's the difference of they're unloaded?!!! If you have the option of an unloaded weapon to practice certain drills with, let's say quick target acquisition, or you have the opportunity to safely do the same drill but also add in a trigger pul, magazine changes, and shots surely the latter is better than just standing there swinging around an unloaded chunk of metal??

 

An unloaded weapon is as good as a deactivated weapon, is as good as an airsoft gun. In fact, at least with airsoft you can practice other aspects of your drills that you can't with an unloaded weapon! Airsoft should never be used to replace live fire training I agree, but it can be used effectively as a supplement to said training and therefore can make a great training tool, especially in countries such as the UK where shooters are turned down for firearms certificates so cannot do any form of training unless they spend thousands on an overseas course. So long as it's used appropriately of course.

[TheFull9]

Let's all reel off our gun-related CVs and the biggest one wins the argument...

 

Unloaded guns are fine and dandy for some simple stuff, but even when it comes to a lot of the basics like trigger control you can get better practice out of airsoft if it's close enough to the RS (trigger pull off weight etc).  In X minutes of endlessly firing and re-cocking your real pistol you'll get in a certain amount of repetitions... do the same with a GBB and all of a sudden you've got 2-3x as much training done with the exact same amount of time spent because the gun cocks itself and the slide actually moves while you're looking down the sights so you get more cycles of reacquiring your sights and everything else involved.  Oh no but the recoil is less.. who actually has the money to fire millions of ball rounds?  Every military, police force and private shooter is strapped for cash these days, how that's not factored in I cannot understand.  You still shoot as many actual real bullets as you can, then add the airsoft on top.  Additional training that's less realistic is miles better than no additional training.

 

Also, call me crazy, but I think having something actually leave the barrel is kind of a big deal in one or two ways in terms of training to shoot, imho.

[GI0VANNI]

You train for real day to day situations, not second to second movements (my opinion) muscle enforcement is not real training as weight lifting is not training to deal a fallen corpse for instance, I understood the "training" as "a situation as close as reality" and airsoft if as far as reality as larping.

 

I am ok with you in the part that airsoft MAY be a supplement to said training with RS, and pity you and me and almost anyone outside EEUU for not being able to deal with the RS and full auto guns, but that is politics, not training, maybe once a politician is assaulted with a knife and has no other defender than a pencil laws will change (for better). that is the reason for calling Check republic, best money/xp for RS training (even Israel will make you go through simunition prior to RS, not there).

[paranoiddroid]

Airsoft can give you a draw and first shot drill practice. It can be used for.force on force substantially cheaper than simunitions.

 

It can be used to get feedback on carry positions with real feedback. What use is a holster and position if the draw means you can't get the safety off and the first shot on in a useful time. Literally draw safety off bang. Airsoft I can do that anywhere even in bed. (In fairness much of my holster practice is sorting out effective seated carry for a wheelchair user)

 

During hand to hand and weapons retention I wold rather take a 6mm bb if I *fruitcage*ed up and did something that would get me shot during a grapple than take a simunition paintball.

 

If teaching shooting or cover shooting from non standard positions etc I'd rather the first stage lot put bb dents into my car during in car draw and fire or us on car as cover training than live rounds when they get it wrong.

 

Airsoft isn't the sole training method it's just a training method the trick is to use the tool betwixt your ears to utilise dry fire live fire blank fire simunition blue gun and airsoft equipment to create a training regime that works.

 

Train with what you have and use everything you can to make your training better. Hell using the mil as an example live fire isn't always used because it isn't always the best option.

 

Training AT4 and gustav operators they use conversion kits firing a live fire pistol calibre round that mimics the flight path of a warhead. Means you can teach technique and safety without it being 200$ a pop. Even the soviews with their nuts budget and lack of concern for life trained with a sub caliber kit. The Soviet ones are availible as surplus now look like a rpg round and can be fired without an rpg. Very cool bits of kit. Means no complex install and a trainer that can be converted to live use by just reloading. Shooting an rpg trainer in a converted demil tube (peremnant setup to only accept the sub caliber unit and therefore not nfa for all the junior g men watchin) at a target full of binary explosive is cool! Especially if others on the range don't register it's just firing 7.62 tracer at first. The us one is a mite more complex fires special 9 mm tracer set for the exact flightpath and they aren't really availible to the public. Though law trainers (basically mini rickets with sub 1/4 oz of fun stuff) are easy to get

 

Blanks are used for some training a custom in recruits and cadets to the sounds and scents of combat and being shot at which can be done on a smaller scale with airsoft. MILES systems are used which again on a lower budget and or smaller level airsoft can be used to simulate however unlike.miles ranges are more.limits and cover is more of an issue.

 

Training is about mindset first dismissing sing a tool because it isn't live fire or isn't simunition is silly