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TM P226 (Guarder Kit) Wot am doin wrong?


Probotector

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Yesterday I received my TM P226 and the last parts needed for my Guarder Navy kit. I've fitted all the parts the same day and I've got no issues regarding mechanics and sealing. However I could need advice on how to improve recoil. This is the part list of the internals:

 

Guarder Loading Nozzle

Guarder Piston Lid

Action Aluminium Cylinder Valve

TM Valve Blocker

TM Bucking

Falcon 6.03mm Innerbarrel

Guarder 150% Recoil & Hammer Spring

Guarder High Flow Valves (on magazines)

 

When having the stronger hammer and recoil springs installed, the slide won't cycle fully (enough to atleast chamber the next BB), same with having the weaker hammer spring installed.

However the gun will cycle flawlessly with the stock recoil spring installed.

 

My question is if there are recommended parts that will allow me to have decent recoil with the Guarder 150& recoil spring. The stock one works but recoil is decent at best and chambering feels awkward.

 

Thanks in advance

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I've got no issues regarding mechanics and sealing

 

How did you verify this? If your gun is not cycling fully, I would think that there's a mechanical issue. If some functionality is missing or no longer functioning as intended, I would say it's not working. Did you chrono your gun? Is it steady? Is it better/worse than stock?

 

I'm not sure what your intention was with those combination of aftermarket parts. It also looks like you already have the solution - if you get "decent" recoil with the standard springs, stay with the standard springs. Also, decent recoil is not quantifiable. In my mind, stock Marui P series pistol both have "decent" recoil.

 

When you upgrade to improve one or more performance factors, expect the loss of one or more of another performance factor.

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What I meant with "no mechanical issues" is that the guns' functions appear to be OK. There is no resistance between slide and frame (properly lubed, tested without recoil spring), trigger/cocking mechanism works fine.

FPS is pretty much the same like it was stock, at ~275FPS.

Took the gun apart to check the internals and nothing's broken, lubed them again to make sure. Sadly this did not solve the problem

 

I'm just curious because from what I've seen and read, the gun should be able to cycle 100%.

 

I'm not very experienced when it comes to GBB's, but afaik, the cylinder valve inside the nozzle is responsible to redirect the flow of the gas to the back once the BB exits the chamber, thus causing the slide to move backwards.

Could this may be the problem?

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I don't mean to take this out on you, but this exemplifies what I dislike about these "up-grade" parts. From my experience, most Marui P226 upgrade parts are counterintuitive and nothing is more reliable and lasts longer than a stock Marui P226. On a side note, your pistol is NOT functioning ok...it's not locking back after the last BB is fired - that's a loss of functionality that the pistol should have. Maybe it's not a critical function, but a feature that your manufacturer offered that is no longer there.

 

You installed performance upgrades and end up with the same performance as a stock pistol. The Guarder kit is an aesthetic upgrade, I get it...but again as with ANY upgrade, aesthetic or otherwise, you have to expect a down grade in one or many performance factors. I highly recommend that you put your stock springs back in and leave it alone.

 

You may start to get responses that say "I installed X, Y, and Z...and my P226 fires at 500 fps, accurate to 100 yards, and gets 500 BB's on a single charge!" (don't forget that everything you read on the internet may not be true...even this very post). Liquid charge pistols are very unique...performance can vary with a tremendous amount of factors: environment, level of maintenance, the type of BB used, the type of propellant used, etc. Because person X had good response from their upgrade parts, doesn't necessarily mean person Y will experience the same.

 

Judging by the list of upgrade parts you have, it looks like you're starting to enter into an endless cycle of upgrades and trust me, it's not something you want to start. I have a TON of useless P226 upgrade parts sitting in my bin collecting dust.

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I want to add, keep an eye out for the magazine release valves, the guarder 1911/HiCapa ones are downright rubbish and I believe that the P226 ones are the same.

 

On the 1911/HiCapa ones the valve-stem is held in place by the sealing o-ring which means that if the pressure in the mag is high enough (like with Green gas at room temperature) the O-ring compresses and the valve stem starts to protrude out the back of the valve body, which aside from making the valve not work properly, can also jam the magazine in the gun making extraction... problematic.

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I don't see any of the pistons and heads improve performance unless you get the right combination due to their various bores and diameters. You would hope the same brand combo would but you never know .I've always used stock springs and cylinder values and mag valves in all my tm gbbs ,and only change the piston if it breaks .

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Judging by the list of upgrade parts you have, it looks like you're starting to enter into an endless cycle of upgrades and trust me, it's not something you want to start. I have a TON of useless P226 upgrade parts sitting in my bin collecting dust.

 

PM me, and I'll probably buy most of them off you.

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Can you do the following function test on your sig:

 

1 remove slide

2 drop hammer

3 look inside the magwell, you should see the valve knocker pressing into where the valve is on the magazine

4 thumb back the hammer

5 look inside the magwell, the valve knocker should not have moved

6 press the valve knocker reset on the top of the frame rail

7 look inside the magwell, the valve knocker should now have recesed into the hammer mech and not be visible.

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I've found my upgraded 226 to be a bit of a headache; like BaBaBooey says. I'm just testing out a Wii Tech nozzle and magazine valves. The results are promising so far.

 

The upgraded pistols just seem to be very gas hungry.

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  • 2 weeks later...

You need a nice tight for for the piston in the nozzle. When I say tight, I don't mean stiff, I mean there's tiny resistance between the 2 and silicone helps it run perfect.

 

Then 150% recoil spring is far too heavy. 120% max.

 

Leave the stock hammer siring in there or if it's weak, use the 120% one and cut off a coil.

 

Make sure there's absolutely no resistance in the rails, if there is, this rapes the efficiency of the cycle.

 

Make sure the mag valves are lubed up and the routers are fresh. Get 9 ball ones as these are epic!

 

I find guarder kits a mare to fit and get working. I'd say spend a little more and get a pgc kit. I won't use anything but Shooters design bits when I build my capas now.

 

Hope this helps mate.

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