George Whitlow Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Hey guys, I have been playing airsoft for about 3 years and I will be 18 in two weeks and able to get UKARA Registered I am becoming unsure what gun to get as my first AEG. I preferably want an M4 as they are pretty upgradable and have the most customisation. I want to run an 11.1v lipo and need good trigger response as I have had bad experiences with rental AEG's. I was looking at the new Ares Amoeba line of AEG's but have heard they are all Polymer and wondered if anyone knew of some other fairly priced AEG's with good enough internals (and decent externals) to run an 11.1v reliably. The Amoeba line has MOSFET's factory installed and I know APS rifles have them factory installed too. APS puts me off because of the Electric Blowback which I have heard can be unreliable? Just need some general guidance and good AEG Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 I am becoming unsure what gun to get as my first AEG. I preferably want an M4 as they are pretty upgradable and have the most customisation. Cheers! About this. M4s run a v2 gearbox, which is *slightly* harder to work on than v3s (mostly because they have the annoying feature of not being able to drop in/out of a gun body due to the body's grip also acting as the motor cage), which have equal aftermarket support. If you want something ready for an 11.1v lipo, I'd suggest getting a v3 gun- it's possible to install a mosfet without even opening the gearbox on a v3 due to the wiring being external. If you got something with a v3 gearbox (g36, AK, MP5K, APS' UAR etc.), you could pretty easily install a mosfet so long as you can solder at all, it's only some very simple connections and cuts to be made. M4? ICS is nice if you ever plan to take your gun apart for upgrades since they make disassembly a lot less daunting and more convenient. They do have some compatibility issues with external parts though, you'll probably end up needing to do some sanding and filing or buying extra stuff to get parts to fit. Link to post Share on other sites
George Whitlow Posted April 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Thanks for the tips I'm glad I know a little more about the internal flexibility of different gearboxes. I'm looking for a gun that I could buy and use an 11.1v lipo from stock and not have any problems for a few years. If you know any other guns other than guns from the Ares Amoeba series that would be able to handle this kind of usage Sorry if the question is kind of pants :/ Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 I really wouldn't trust anything to run on an 11.1v for a few years without reliability improvements not commonly made on stock guns (aoe adjustment, radiusing, shimming, bearing spring guide etc.). Maybe on an 8.4v, but if you hold the trigger for the same period of time, you're shooting almost twice as much with the 11.1v. Sure the trigger contacts won't fry, but the rest of the gearbox isn't immune to damage. Link to post Share on other sites
northernairsofter Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 IF you are desperate to use an 11.1v Lipo then who am i to say otherwhise , but.... for the record , you really dont need an 11.1v Lipo for good trigger response. A well shimmed gearbox , even with standard 18.1 gears , can have a very crisp trigger pull with a decent mosfet ( BTC CHIMERA or BTC Spectre) and a high torque motor ( think Lonex A2 or SHS high torque). I never felt the need to use an 11.1 , as with a 7.4 of both decent capacity and C rating ( above 30 C discharge) , the trigger reponse of my KA M4 ( which has a chimera abd an SHS high torque ) is fantastic - ive been accused of using full auto on Semi. This isnt me trying to boast , its just trying to quash a misconception. No doubt , using a 11.1v in my gun would up the trigger respponse , but the gain is not worth it for the potential relaibility loss. For a really decent stock gun , that is a good base for upgrades and customisation, i would look at the Lonex M4 series ( or as known under their other pseudonym , the ASG LMT defender's ). http://www.proairsoftsupplies.co.uk/acatalog/ASG-Armalite-M15A4-Carbine-PL-17393.html#SID=271 Front wired and a wee bit pricey , but excellant starting internals. Helmet world are the UK retailer for Lonex M4's ( the same as the ASG ones , without the LMT trades) http://www.helmetworld.co.uk/m4-105-short-21419-p.asp Some idea on a pricepoint that you are looking for would be helpful ! Link to post Share on other sites
George Whitlow Posted April 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Cheers - So should I be looking for a stock gun with a well shimmed gearbox? (p.s - is shimming the "layout" of the gears? Not really sure, all I can imagine is how efficiently space is used within the gearbox :S ) My price range is up to £200 which I thought was reasonable for a first gun. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Shims are basically little spacers (.1-.3mm thick) put on gear axles so that they fit better, wobbling less while not being too tight. This improves efficiency and reduces sound. Running an 11.1v lipo with a budget of £200 is perfectly reasonable. Doing so while expecting to not touch the internals of the gun is not. Link to post Share on other sites
George Whitlow Posted April 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Okay, So I suppose what I want to know is, what gun can I buy for £200 with a good trigger response that will run reliably for a couple years? I don't mind using a different battery if it enhances the life span, just as long as the trigger response is good and the price is right Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 What do you mean by good trigger response though? Can you give a video or something? For me, if I can feel any sort of delay between the trigger pull and shot at all, that's bad. For someone else, 1/15th of a second may be good enough. Link to post Share on other sites
Beeingmyself Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 G&P M4 SHS 18:1 gears SHS piston ASCU v3+ Have the cylinder and hopup airtighten. The barrel fixated, so you dont need to spill money on p-barrels Some midcaps Cyma/Jg 150 rds Decent reddot And a good faceprotection Link to post Share on other sites
George Whitlow Posted April 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'm like you Argoms - I like it snappy - I suppose I probably wouldn't notice it even if it was 1/15th of a second. I always would go to sites and use rentals which would do that thing where you pull the trigger to fast on semi and the gun can't keep up so it stops firing and you have to switch it to auto and then back to semi to get it to work :/ If I can avoid that and just enjoy airsoft that would be awesome Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites
George Whitlow Posted April 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 G&P M4 SHS 18:1 gears SHS piston ASCU v3+ Have the cylinder and hopup airtighten. The barrel fixated, so you dont need to spill money on p-barrels Some midcaps Cyma/Jg 150 rds Decent reddot And a good faceprotection How much would that all cost, considering I wouldn't be able to do it myself and I would have I pay someone? Plus what battery should I use with said setup Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites
Beeingmyself Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 How much would that all cost, considering I wouldn't be able to do it myself and I would have I pay someone? Plus what battery should I use with said setup Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk Think you can find most of theese parts in UK shops. Reason for the gear change is the battery, which easy could be 11.1V 25C 1200 lipo stocktube battery. Don't know the cost in UK shops so you will have to mail to them if you cannot find some one private to do it for you. Look for G&P Sentry it has a very well made frontrail system which is rocksolid and a nice stock as well which you can get rubber buttpads for. The ASCU unit have a very fast and snappy triggerpull and response and able to do 3-burst shots and a lipo saver which enchance the life of your batteries. It simply just makes a bip and goes dead so you do not discharge the battery too much and kills it. Link to post Share on other sites
George Whitlow Posted April 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Think you can find most of theese parts in UK shops. Reason for the gear change is the battery, which easy could be 11.1V 25C 1200 lipo stocktube battery. Don't know the cost in UK shops so you will have to mail to them if you cannot find some one private to do it for you. Look for G&P Sentry it has a very well made frontrail system which is rocksolid and a nice stock as well which you can get rubber buttpads for. The ASCU unit have a very fast and snappy triggerpull and response and able to do 3-burst shots and a lipo saver which enchance the life of your batteries. It simply just makes a bip and goes dead so you do not discharge the battery too much and kills it. Looking at Zero One's selection of G&P guns, they are all £230 upwards so this is well out of my budget. I just want a nice gun for up to £200 that will last and perform decently from stock / minimum upgrades Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites
northernairsofter Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'm like you Argoms - I like it snappy - I suppose I probably wouldn't notice it even if it was 1/15th of a second. I always would go to sites and use rentals which would do that thing where you pull the trigger to fast on semi and the gun can't keep up so it stops firing and you have to switch it to auto and then back to semi to get it to work :/ If I can avoid that and just enjoy airsoft that would be awesome Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk Im afraid the lockup on semi is an inherent flaw with all version 2 gearboxes. It can only really be avoided by having a decent battery and motor setup taht runs quickly and efficiently , or using a mosfet like the ASCU v3's or BTC mosfets that use active breaking to stop the motor and cycle detection. A gun under £200 wont have one of these built in , so that would be an aftermarket part. http://www.proairsoftsupplies.co.uk/acatalog/tr_16_carbine_top_tech.html These G&G Toptech Gen3 M4's come with a mosfet out of the box , and G&G say they are able to use 11.1 lipos. Hvaing fired one , the trigger response was still good on a 7.4v lipo , but it was really good on the 11.1v - but the guy stripped his G&G gen 3 m4s piston the next game using a 11.1 - the toptechs do come with a 2 year warranty ,so if you leave it stock and only use the battery's they recommend then PAS will repair it for free every time it breaks. For something under/near £200 that is a good base for upgrades then i would also recommend the WE M4 AEG, a very well known tech at Kingdom of Airsoft recommends them wholeheartily , which tells you alot. You could buy it now ( if the funds permit ) and then slowly upgrade it over your time playing with a High torque motor , Deans connectors , a MOSFET etc. They can be found here - http://www.milspecsolutions.co.uk/aeg-rifles-85/we-aeg-rifles-86/we-m4-ris-aeg-92 Alternatively you could just look at G&G's combat machine line or the Cyma AK line if you want something under 200 pound that you can add upgrades on later - although i wont say that the trigger response will be brilliant - these guns are often used as rentals. Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore1-6 Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 ...they are all £230 upwards so this is well out of my budget... So what's £30 extra to give better quality? You'll get far greater returns, wait a week/how-long-it-takes-to-save-£30 and get it. If you want it to run for years, this is the best bet. Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I just remembered that this existed. Pre-installed mosfet, JG's famously durable gears, and a very high torque motor. You could probably run it on an 11.1v for quite a while, and the torque motor means great trigger response. But then again, it's not an M4. I think you might've unintentionally thrown a lot of us off when you mentioned good trigger response though. A lot of rentals use 8.4vs (I think, it's true IME at least), so a 9.6v/7.4v lipo would probably give the same guns enough of a trigger response to not just get stuck. Take a look at SRC's guns- they've all got a nice high torque motor stock and therefore will give a good trigger response. Alternatively, you could get a new motor on basically any gun- motor installation doesn't even require removing the gearbox from the gun's body. You just unscrew the plate at the bottom of the grip, unplug the motor connectors, put a new one in, and then do what you just did backwards. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 By your remit (must be m4, must use 11.1vlipo) Get the ICS M4, and don't mess with it. The only change I'd make is to add in a mosfet to protect the trigger contacts (11.1v is a lot for standard contacts) Only change things if it's broken. Link to post Share on other sites
George Whitlow Posted April 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 So would it be fair to say to get a gun that is well made and swap the motor out for say a Lonex? I.e - Maybe a G&G, ICS, G&P etc with a Lonex high torque motor and a 7.4v Lipo In response to an extra £30, I know it isn't too much, but I haven't a clue how much money l will get for my bday plus my wages. I have to bear in mind I still have to buy basic essentials like tactical vest, holster, BDU, face protection, boots, mags, aidearm, etc.. Once I know how much I have, I will be able to make a decision. In the mean time, any good quality guns that I could use as a base gun to upgrade components that anyone can suggest that would be great Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Well actually, with pure trigger response in mind, an extra £20 (this is the only store that stocks them in the UK as far as I know). If you care about performance in any aspect, I highly recommend learning to work on internals. It's quite simple if you just take it one step at a time and not get ahead of yourself, especially if you've got an ICS. Do you care about metal bodies? Link to post Share on other sites
George Whitlow Posted April 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Well actually, with pure trigger response in mind, an extra £20 (this is the only store that stocks them in the UK as far as I know). If you care about performance in any aspect, I highly recommend learning to work on internals. It's quite simple if you just take it one step at a time and not get ahead of yourself, especially if you've got an ICS. Do you care about metal bodies? Thanks for your response. I build guitar pedals and other stuff so I'm fine with soldering and taking some things apart. Its when there are tiny springs involved that shoot out everywhere. I don't mind working on internals - just don't want bodge/ruin the internals of a £200 gun :S My local site is Bristol Airsoft, and he said he can offer me a full metal ICS M4 for £180 as he buys them in wholesale. I like metal bodies but their not essential on my list. As long as there is some external metal parts to add a little bit of weight I'm quite happy. P.S - Does anyone have an opinion on this gun? Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites
Beeingmyself Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Hey Hope this is not too off/topic. My personal experience is that the better gun and gear you have the better airsoft becomes. So inline of buying here is my list. #1: Good face protection. Get what fits you and the way you play and ofcourse what is accordin to the rules. #2: A good solid working AEG that you can rely on. Including a decent reddot. If new guns are to expensive consider buying a used one. The are often upgraded to a fair pricetag #1: Good boots. All weather all year boot costs a little but they are worth it. Tactical vest and BDU you should wait. If you join up a team than you might have to buy new camouflage Sidearm can wait untill you have a nice primary AEG. Link to post Share on other sites
George Whitlow Posted April 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I don't plan on joining a team - I just play with mates at the moment If I (eventually) moves out to the US then maybe I would team up there but that's a long way off ^o^ I have my boots sorted - I have been eyeing up some 5.11 HTAC Desert Patrol boots as I have heard they are amazing. Still rather confused what to do about the AEG - I had originally planned to buy the gun I linked previously in my last post but I haven't had anyone's opinion on it and other guns have been suggested. I was looking at an Aimpoint T1 Micro red dot - £40ish from HelmetWorld Any other AR15 type guns that are good from stock (or minimal upgrades) with a nice trigger response would be great Not fussed what battery anymore, glad someone corrected that misconception Link to post Share on other sites
Argoms Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Ares doesn't have a particularly good reputation, I think you'd be better off with the ICS for £180. Link to post Share on other sites
George Whitlow Posted April 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I don't mind the ICS and I know I would be getting a good deal. But it is a standard carbine which doesn't have much rail space which isn't essential but would be nice. Any alternative £200 aeg's with rail space and all of the above would be grand Sorry to all for fussyness :| Link to post Share on other sites
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